Charging Jump Starter Power Pack with Car Battery Charger!

[Stargazer33]

Hi, before I maim myself or blow up the garage I thought I should check with you guys as to my sanity on this matter!

A little while ago I bought a 'Streetwise' 17ah Lead Acid Jump Starter Power Pack to run my CG5-GT mount and a dew heater (my version has two 12v sockets on the left hand side where the circular lumps are on the one in the link.

When I first got it I charged it up for 24 hours as stated in the manual and every time I use it I put it on charge as soon as I can.

My problem is that I am only getting about 2 hours out of the battery. I have tested my dew heater and it is drawing 0.48 amps at the setting that I use and my scope is supposed to draw 2 amps max. I know it doesn't draw much more than that as I have a 2 amp quick blow fuse in the cigar lighter plug. So, I am drawing maximum of 2.5 amps and a 17ah battery is lasting max 2 hours before the red LED comes on.

Now my question! Can I charge the power pack with an intelligent car battery charger by connecting it to the correct (pos to pos and neg to neg) croc clips? I believe the croc clips go straight to the battery terminals on the power pack and it is lead acid, so it would/should be like charging a normal car battery, right?

Or am I going to blow up my power pack and possibly take my garage with it?

My thoughts were that the intelligent battery charger might recondition the power pack battery and get me a full, longer lasting charge. When I measured the power pack the other night after taking it off charge - a orange LED comes on to warn that the battery is being overcharged - I was only measuring 12.55 volts which seems a bit low for a lead acid battery. I know car batteries normally sit at over 13 volts when fully charged.

Any help would be most welcome and could prevent me from having to rebuild the garage - although I could always include a nice observatory dome in the new plans!

[kirkster501]

Yes, the battery chargers work a treat. I have the Optimate one. It is fabulous - much better than the rubbish charger that these Jumpstarters are supplied with.

You must charge it after every use and never leave it half charged for days at a time - it will damage it if you do. Even if you don't use it for a week, charge it anyway - only takes ten minutes.

[cantharis]

I clicked on your Optimate link - it appears not to be a car battery charger, but for motorcycles. It is sold by an outfit called 2wheeljunkie and all the reviews refer to motorcycle use.

I would prefer to buy a charger that would do double duty for my Jump starter and my car. Anyone got a link for a good one?

[kirkster501]

I charge my car battery with it just fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cantharis]

I charge my car battery with it just fine.

OK, gratifying to hear that. But I see that its maximum charging current is only 0.8 A. May take a while to charge car batteries. But I find batteries deteriorate in peculiar ways here - they seem to lose a lot of their capacity. I wonder if something that conditions them well might just be the business. Jury is still out. But certainly it gets excellent reviews from the biker fraternity. Thanks

[nicks90]

lead acid batteries 'fur up' with sulphates over time, even more so if they are not regularly fully charged or exposed to extreme cold/heat and left at half charge for periods of time.

3 options available to you -

1) replace the battery if you can access it

2) add some conditioning salts to the battery if you can access it And it has caps that allow you to get at the liquid inside

3) shock it back to life by connecting it directly to a large battery (large car, truck etc) and exposing it to a potential of several hundred amps. This has the effect of giving it a massive quick charge. Quite often this sort of shock charging will re-dissolve alot of the sulphates that form on the plates and give it a new lease of life.

i take no responsibility for you breaking the casing getting access to the battery or pouring it over yourself and doing an injury.

As a part time mechanic, I have revived alot of "dead" batteries by zapping them with something powerful - including using my arc welder to zap truck batteries that had completely sulphated up and would not hold any charge at all. Do so at your own risk though and wear gloves + eye protection.

nick

[cantharis]

I am attracted to one of the CTEK battery chargers - can produce 3.8A and has reviews as good as the Opimate. And a bit cheaper.

[Stargazer33]

Thanks for the input guys.

I have been talking to our technical manager at work and he is cautious about charging a 'gel' type lead acid battery with a car battery charger.

Nick: it shouldn't be 'furred up' as I have only had it for a few months and it hasn't had that much use. It has always been charged up after each use and never stored half empty - unless it was duff when I bought it!

I am going to open the case on the weekend and see if I can get any details off of the battery itself. I can then try to get its spec off of the internet to see how/if I can revive it.

Failing that I might just try putting the car battery charger on it and see what happens. If it all goes pear shaped I will just buy an 88ah leisure battery and build my own power pack.

[nicks90]

Bryan,

I have a gel lead acid battery in my landrover doesnt leak when i park it on its roof offroad and they are perfectly happy being charged up with a regular car charger.

[J_M_Franklin]

Couple of points;

• I have a CTEK charger permanently mounted into my land Rover for charging purposes and this also conditions the battery, they are an intelligent investment as they do more that a standard charger. They are good for many types of 12V battery except Lithium, Nickel-Metal Hydride and Nickel Cadmium unless specifically mentioned in the battery manufacturers blurb.
  
• Gel Batteries are different from conventional lead acid, they have a totally different construction and they use a Gel made from Sulfuric Acid and Silica Fume. The antimony in the battery has been replaced with Calcium, they can withstand temperature ranges far in excess of "wet" cell batteries and they hold their CCA rating for far longer regardless of the abuse they often receive.
  
• The downside of AGM technology is that it makes Gel batteries far more expensive that conventional wet cell technology, however as they can last, if a conditioning charger is used, up to three time the life of the wet cells, then they become economical.
  

Gel Batteries of a small size are very expensive compared to similar size wet cell types, they only really become economical in this situation if you buy full car sized batteries. Many Motorcycle batteries are now AGM types, but pound for pound they are more expensive, though smaller and lighter with less capacity..

[Mr Q]

An interesting thread. Dealing with wet cell and gel cells over many years, I can only add one possible cause.

Though the ad says the battery is a "sealed, maintenance free", could it still be a wet acid type? Other posts indicate the battery is a gel cell and the discharge limits for these types is no lower than 11.1 volts. Below this (even for short durations), the battery is damaged. How much? Depends on the time it sat at its discharged state or how far below 11 volts it was discharged.

I'm weary about the ad's mention of not stocking this device at the present (had a lot of problems similar to you have?).

So the only possible answer to your problem is to see if there is a manufacture's code date on the battery. If the battery was partially sulfated (from sitting without a charge cycle for too long in a warehouse), that would explain your battery appearing now as an 8-10AH battery. Unfortunately, nothing can be done to rejuvenate a gell cell and only a long trickle charge (1-5 amps for a day or more) can sometimes help a wet cel that is sulfated.

So in the end, I suggest buying a small car battery of the wet acid type of double or triple your amp hour needs. Wet or gel? Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

[Stargazer33]

Thanks for all the replies!

I took the back off of the unit last night and found this inside:

I couldn't get a really good look at the whole of the battery due to all the wires for the various components, but it looks like there are cell caps at the top.

The box and a sticker on the unit say that it is stored in a discharged state and needs to be charged for 24 hours as soon as it is purchased (which I did, I think!).

It looks to me as though it is a 'wet' lead acid rather than a 'gel' type.

I think I will try discharging it part way at the weekend and then stick it on the car charger. My charger is an intelligent one and in the manual it says that it will charge 'gel' type batteries so I can but try!

[J_M_Franklin]

An interesting thread. Dealing with wet cell and gel cells over many years, I can only add one possible cause.

Though the ad says the battery is a "sealed, maintenance free", could it still be a wet acid type? Other posts indicate the battery is a gel cell and the discharge limits for these types is no lower than 11.1 volts. Below this (even for short durations), the battery is damaged. How much? Depends on the time it sat at its discharged state or how far below 11 volts it was discharged.

I'm weary about the ad's mention of not stocking this device at the present (had a lot of problems similar to you have?).

So the only possible answer to your problem is to see if there is a manufacture's code date on the battery. If the battery was partially sulfated (from sitting without a charge cycle for too long in a warehouse), that would explain your battery appearing now as an 8-10AH battery. Unfortunately, nothing can be done to rejuvenate a gell cell and only a long trickle charge (1-5 amps for a day or more) can sometimes help a wet cel that is sulfated.

So in the end, I suggest buying a small car battery of the wet acid type of double or triple your amp hour needs. Wet or gel? Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

Generally good, however I would point out that a CTEK charger can rejuvenate a Gel battery that is not overly damaged, and also, an 18V drill battery can be used to give a pulse into a partially sulphated battery so that it can be used. I would caution any attempts to do this without following clear and concise instructions, which i will not give out on an open forum for safety reasons, but i have done this to both Wet cell and AGM batteries that have sat at a low ambient voltage for several months(~10.5V)

[J_M_Franklin]

Thanks for all the replies!

I took the back off of the unit last night and found this inside:

I couldn't get a really good look at the whole of the battery due to all the wires for the various components, but it looks like there are cell caps at the top.

The box and a sticker on the unit say that it is stored in a discharged state and needs to be charged for 24 hours as soon as it is purchased (which I did, I think!).

It looks to me as though it is a 'wet' lead acid rather than a 'gel' type.

I think I will try discharging it part way at the weekend and then stick it on the car charger. My charger is an intelligent one and in the manual it says that it will charge 'gel' type batteries so I can but try!

Rubbish battery, I would suggest considering changing the battery for a YUASA S1712, LEAD-ACID 12V 17AH BATTERY. These retail at more than the cost of a jump start unit though, except for the quality ones. From memory we pay about £70 for them with normal retail being in the £80-£100 mark.

[Stargazer33]

Rubbish battery...

Yeah, I guessed from the company name that it wasn't a top of the range battery!

I don't go out to dark sites, so I don't really need a mobile power supply. My latest thoughts are to make up a 240v to 12v power supply. I'll put the power adaptor in a box and add some sockets for the mount and dew heater. I may add a socket for the laptop too.

I was thinking of having an outside power socket fitted anyway; for the lawnmower & strimmer in the summer.

That way I won't have to worry about charging the battery or the mount going erratic because the voltage has dropped too much.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions everyone.

[gcraib]

Yes, the battery chargers work a treat. I have the Optimate one. It is fabulous - much better than the rubbish charger that these Jumpstarters are supplied with.

You must charge it after every use and never leave it half charged for days at a time - it will damage it if you do. Even if you don't use it for a week, charge it anyway - only takes ten minutes.

Very good charger, I have one connected to my bike most of the time.

It will do 12V lead acid batteries, regardless if they are for car or bike.

Sounds like you just need to give your battery a really good charge, get the optimate and it will do it for you and then it will maintain the battery on a float charge with test cycle.

[gcraib]

You don't want too much charging current to a healthy battery, a small trickle current is best.

The optimate will do that automatically and it can also recover deep discharged batteries.

[Islander]

There are several Optimate models, the 3 and 4 are intended for motorcycles and the 6 is intended for car batteries. Any model will charge your battery and even better, will assess its condition and rejuvenate it if necessary (and if it's recoverable). I use the 4 to maintain my motorcycle batteries.

[allcart]

Now my question! Can I charge the power pack with an intelligent car battery charger by connecting it to the correct (pos to pos and neg to neg) croc clips? I believe the croc clips go straight to the battery terminals on the power pack and it is lead acid, so it would/should be like charging a normal car battery, right?

Or am I going to blow up my power pack and possibly take my garage with it?

Can anyone answer this part of the question. Often wondered myself.

[Islander]

Yes, you can. There might be a heavy rotary on/off switch for the boost leads and you'll have to switch this on first but the leads couple directly to the battery. Make sure any lights/inverters/compressors are switched off before you connect the charger.