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the yesyes observatory - let the planning begin


yesyes

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I know what you mean about the terraforming! I have to chop a load of trees down, move one shed and demolish another, lift 150 feet of concrete path, fill the holes with topsoil and grow new lawn, fence half the garden, build a new shed and reclaim 150 square metres of before I am finally allowed start on the observatory.

Nearly there (the start).

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Looking good Chris. I like the windy path leading to the back.

Can't help but notice though, regarding the pic of your shed.........aren't the tools traditionally supposed to be on the inside???? :laugh:

Looking forward to the next update.

I knew something was odd... ;-)

I'll just keep the big and dirty things outside that don't mind getting a bit of rain. Keeps the inside a little more tidy...

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I'm happy to report that I have finished the crazy paving. See first picture.

So I will finalise clearing the site and start digging for the foundations and pier this bank holiday weekend. I will then also start a build thread.

The 2nd picture shows my obsy site. The area is about 2.75 x 5.50 metres. The obsy will be 2.60 x 5.00 metres. Quite a squeeze.. ;-)

post-2143-0-96080000-1368988256_thumb.jp

post-2143-0-35049400-1368988360_thumb.jp

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OK, back to the actual observatory planning... ;-)

I have changed the design slightly. Now the corner uprights are standing directly on the concrete foundations. This gives me an extra 20cm in length bringing the total to 5.00 x 2.60 metres (roughly 8.5 x 16.5 feet).

I have attached a Sketchup screenshot showing this and also the Sketchup project (remove the .pdf file extension).

Before I start digging for the foundations I have a few questions to the more experienced.

- are the 6 concrete point foundations enough for this size?

- would it be OK to use 2x 2.40m joists on the long sides of the main floor frame instead of one 4.80m? This might be easier to handle. Or will it be more sturdy with a single 4.80m joist?

I'm sure I had a few more questions but I can't remember them at the moment. I need to start writing these things down.. :)

In the meantime I have also bought a 1300mm high by 700mm wide double-glazed UPVC window off ebay for my warm room for £11 :laugh: . It is second hand but has never been used. It's still in its original wooden frame. I haven't designed it into the Sketchup project yet. It will be adjacent to the entry door but in the warm room. The wooden frame it came in seems to be to protect the window during transport. Do you think I could just install it as it is, basically integrate its wooden frame into the obsy wall? Or are these frames not properly attached to the window? Picture of the window attached.

post-2143-0-07182700-1369078390_thumb.pn

yesyes observatory_4.skp.pdf

post-2143-0-52611000-1369080754_thumb.jp

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Chris - these windows are designed to go into an opening (from the inside). The wooden frame you have there is probably to protect the window rebate from getting bent. You should design a 'hole' in the relevant wall so you have a solid framework to fix to that is part of the main build (if that makes sense?) Otherwise you are going to have to make a frame to fit the temporary wooden frame into...

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Hey Chris. Posting a sketchup model is a great idea - I must remember that for my build.

Making your fences visible shows that the rear wall of your obsy will be very close to the fence. Do you envisage any problems getting the cladding on, or maintaining it once it's up? Access looks like it'll be difficult.

Regarding the 6 posts - sorry, not sure about that, but I would have thought it'd be OK. I'm thinking of making a small block wall and hanging the joists off hangars, similar to malc-c's build.

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I've fitted several windows like that and it should be straight forward, usually fit the outer frame with the opening window removed, before fitting check which side a latch and handle system can be fitted from, not usual to have one on both sides, a simple ball catch might be best. Best to dispense with the wood frame as you need to screw through the white frame into your wall frame, no advantage in also going through that wood.

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Chris - these windows are designed to go into an opening (from the inside). The wooden frame you have there is probably to protect the window rebate from getting bent. You should design a 'hole' in the relevant wall so you have a solid framework to fix to that is part of the main build (if that makes sense?) Otherwise you are going to have to make a frame to fit the temporary wooden frame into...

Thanks Francis. Yes, it does make sense now. ;-)

It looks like some good, solid wood (about 2" x 2" I would think) so I thought I could just screw into it from outside. I didn't realise I would need a frame around the frame.. ;-)

I'm sure the wood from that frame will come in handy elsewhere in the build.

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Making your fences visible shows that the rear wall of your obsy will be very close to the fence. Do you envisage any problems getting the cladding on, or maintaining it once it's up? Access looks like it'll be difficult.

That's one of the challenges of this rather small site. The cladding will be very close to the fence on the back and the right; around 3-4 inches maybe... No way to get there to do the cladding. I decided to use UPVC cladding instead of timber. I'll probably never be able to get to the outside of these walls again. UPVC seems to be the solution as it needs no maintenance. I can also use white UPVC as I won't ever see these sides and it's cheaper. ;-)

I'll need to build and clad the wall panels first, then install them between the main uprights with the cladding already on. On the left side I will have about half a metre between obsy and fence. I will see during the build if that is enough to clad it from the outside.

I haven't quite decided what I'll use to clad the front. I could use timber cladding but I might just go for wood effect UPVC. No preservers required and it won't warp.

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I've fitted several windows like that and it should be straight forward, usually fit the outer frame with the opening window removed, before fitting check which side a latch and handle system can be fitted from, not usual to have one on both sides, a simple ball catch might be best. Best to dispense with the wood frame as you need to screw through the white frame into your wall frame, no advantage in also going through that wood.

Not quite sure what you mean by "latch and handle system". The window has a lockable handle (not visible on the photo). Do I need something else?

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I would recommend a continuous 5m length for the long joists - much stronger and stiffer. In my build I had the joists going the other way and they are the full length except for the outer south side one where the warm room is narrower than the scope room to allow for the overlapping walls when the roof is open.

I agree with the advice above about the window - remove the carriage frame which will be the poorest quality wood and use a proper nice solid frame and screw the window frame into that. That sure was a bargain :) Those windows usually cost many hundreds of pounds. I looked for second hand windows when I was building my obsy but there weren't any so I made my own window using acrylic sheet.

Regarding the door in the dividing wall, I can thoroughly recommend a sliding door - I've found it fantastic. Sliding door gear came from Screwfix and the hollow handles from ebay.

uPVC cladding is great - I used it on our back porch. It's attached with special SS nails onto a strong wooden framework. You can also get special trim to cover corners, joins and ends. When I made my odsy I couldn't find any wood coloured uPVC cladding - only white. I didn't want a glaring white shed sticking out like a sore thumb! The American redwood top quality shiplap cladding was a fair bit cheaper too.

As for the back wall and gap, I agree that the plastic cladding will pretty much last a lifetime but what about the wooden fence? I guess with the weather shielding from your obsy it won't get the usual weather at it so should last much longer than usual.

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Thanks. I did check some span tables but I'm not quite sure I understood them. In fact, I'm quite sure I didn't understand them.. ;-)

What do you mean by double 6x2? Does that refer to the main floor frame? I was planning to use 4x4 joists for the frame and 6x2 for the floor joists. Should I use two 6x2 next to each other for the frame instead of the 4x4?

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Actually, come to think of it, using two 6x2 next to each other for the floor frame would solve quite a few of the little "problems" I was thinking about how to solve...

I was going to put some threaded rod into the foundations to screw down the joists. I was wondering how I could drill the joist exactly to fit over the threads. With 2 joists I could just have the rods in between the joists and hold them down with some sort of bracket on top.

It would also solve the slight issue that the floor joists would hang 2" below the frame joists.

On the other hand, it would raise the hight of the obsy by 2" / 5cm. I may have to make the roof flatter to stay under the 2.50m permitted height.

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I was going to put some threaded rod into the foundations to screw down the joists. I was wondering how I could drill the joist exactly to fit over the threads. With 2 joists I could just have the rods in between the joists and hold them down with some sort of bracket on top.

Drill the joists, fit the threaded rod. Pour the foundations. Rest the joists with the threaded rod over the top with the ends in the concrete. Wait for it all to go off and remove the joists leaving the threaded rod in position?

You needn't even really use the actual joist. Any bit of timber that you could subsequently use as a template for drilling holes in the joist would do.

Alternatively you could use some galvanised strapping. Push it into the concrete sticking up. Trim it to length and screw/nail/bolt it through the joists once they're in position. Probably cheaper than threaded rod, too.

James

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Not quite sure what you mean by "latch and handle system". The window has a lockable handle (not visible on the photo). Do I need something else?

Oops.. sorry my mistake (it was late!) I thought I read you meant to use it as door between the rooms. :smiley: Now I see it's smaller than a door and will be used as window...

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Hmmmmm, that strapping is a good idea. I do already have the threaded rods though (12 pieces of 300mm x M10 stainless steel, about £2 each, so not too bad...)

It would be good if I could do it as you suggest, to drill the joist and then push it into the just poured concrete. However, my plan was to finish all the concrete / foundation stuff and then get these tools / materials off site, then bring in the timber. That's because there isn't really much space in the garden to store it all at once. So I have to take it in stages.

I could use other bits of timber to hold the rods as you suggest. But with separate pieces it would be harder to make everything exactly square...

I'll think about those strappings a bit more. It would also solve the problem with the rods / nuts sticking out from the top of the joists where the wall panels will go.

Maybe I'm overthinking this.... ;-))

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A few questions just came back to me...

- do I have to use rebar in the concrete foundations? Or can I just pour them as pure concrete with a few of the smaller remaining rocks thrown in?

- where would you put the floor boards? should they go under the wall panels or just up to the edge but not underneath?

- when installing the horizontal bracings in the wall panels, can I just screw through the uprights into the endgrain of the horizontals? Or should I use metal brackets?

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I really can't see that there's a need for rebar in the foundations unless the ground is very soft and liable to move.

I would be inclined to keep the floor boards inside the wall panels rather than underneath so the cut end is well protected from the elements. It will also make them easier to replace if they get damaged or anything like that.

Just screw or nail the horizontal noggings in place as you suggest. Their main purpose is to stop the uprights twisting along their length. If you feel really enthusiastic you could put some nails or screws in diagonally. Are you putting some diagonal framing members in, too?

James

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Thanks James. I'm glad I don't need any rebar. At least in the foundations. I will probably put some in the pier though.

I also prefer to keep the floor boards inside the panels. I just thought I read here somewhere that it's better to have them under the wall panels. Can't remember where I saw that and what the reasoning was...

There will be diagonals in the wall panels. I'll do that at the end with any remaining timber. And I couldn't be asked to include them in the Sketchup project... ;-)

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