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John

Monster in the making

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I don't wish to sound negative but I fear this one will have such a limited market that it will be a flop - a bit like the 50" Orion USA dob. I just cannot see the benefits outweighing the negatives (pun sort of intended). is there really such a big difference from a 30/31 82 degree eyepiece?

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There will be few scopes that can use it, for now, but way back there we few scopes that could use a 2" EP. Who knows what the future holds but I'd bet they wouldnt be developing it for the occasional monster SCT owner...they may have something up their sleeve OR they might simply be pushing the boundaries for an academic exercise to test something out. It wouldnt be a big deal for an optical manufacturer the size of JOC to blow a few thou developing something at the edge of whats possible as a design excercise.

Only recently people we saying that you couldnt go 100' FOV beyond 21mm ( Al said so I think) and there were no end of posts in other places 'proving' it as well. What a pity ES didnt read the posts and instead got on with making one. :)

ES to date have done a lot of stuff that people felt would flop. When the 100' series came out there was not wanting experts saying it would be rubbish. It wasnt. When they went with the 82' people said the same but ES pulled another rabbit out the hat and confounded the critics. The 120' is said to be superb and way beyond what anyone expected. Too pricey for me and I am unconvinced of the whole super widefield thing anyway but I'd not be surprised to see a lot more exciting kit come from ES. Definitely a force for good for astronomy as they have made a lot of stuff available to people with tighter budgets thats good quality and delivering what a lot of us want. Cant compain about that.

I'm waiting for their version of a Paracor at the moment.

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I don't wish to sound negative but I fear this one will have such a limited market that it will be a flop - a bit like the 50" Orion USA dob. I just cannot see the benefits outweighing the negatives (pun sort of intended). is there really such a big difference from a 30/31 82 degree eyepiece?

I noticed that Markus Ludes of APM has already asked on the Facebook page of the Explore Scientific CEO if he can buy one as it would be quite a match for some his large aperture triplet Apos. But it definitely has a very limited market.

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Only recently people we saying that you couldnt go 100' FOV beyond 21mm ( Al said so I think) and there were no end of posts in other places 'proving' it as well. What a pity ES didnt read the posts and instead got on with making one. :)

I do hope they can eventually bring the 25mm 100° to the party. To be able to have the fov of a 31mm Nagler, but with a much reduced exit pupil, will be good news for big fast dob users. It has been said that it couldn't be done without certain optical compromises though, so we'll have to wait and see I guess!

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Well it will be interesting to see how this "niche" develops.

It seems crazy to discuss eyepieces that are likely to cost £1,000 each if and when they make it over here but I guess there will be a market for them. A fair few seem to be prepared to pay £500-£700 apiece for the Ethos and I can recall the reaction when they came out :smiley:

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It is amazing (I feel) what others do...There's an Ethos for sale at the moment on UKABS described as "never used"!!!

Am I missing something or are there alot of people with so much money they don't know what to do?

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It is amazing (I feel) what others do...There's an Ethos for sale at the moment on UKABS described as "never used"!!!

Am I missing something or are there alot of people with so much money they don't know what to do?

The weather.

I only observed 3-4 times in the last 2 months, two of them were partially cloudy and the seeing was poor in all of them. Ethos is a very expensive paper weight if you don't get to use it. I can understand why people are selling their equipments at the moment. I'm also considering downsizing my collection because of the lack of use.

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It had to come, didn't it? Truly amazing though i have to say.

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I have said a good few times I only have spent money because I can use the gear I have more than 50% of the year. There is no way I would buy a refractor costing 3000 quid if I was in England. When I was there in May for 2 weeks I only saw one clear night and got wet a good few times.

Alan

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I have said a good few times I only have spent money because I can use the gear I have more than 50% of the year. There is no way I would buy a refractor costing 3000 quid if I was in England. When I was there in May for 2 weeks I only saw one clear night and got wet a good few times.

Alan

To be fair, it was about the wettest May for 100 yrs

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To be fair, it was about the wettest May for 100 yrs

I didn't notice the difference :grin:

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Anyway to get back to the monster eyepiece that John started the thread with. I could not use one of these in any of my scopes and I am not so sure that the 16 inch Meade LX 200 would be able to either, if indeed I had one. I am sure what you are seeing here is the requirement to increase barrel size. Mr Al Nagler by all accounts spoke of design compomises with 2 inch eyepiece that he was not happy to accept in going bigger with the TV range. It will have to be seen what Ex Sc do with a 25mm 100 degree design that one of the worlds leading eyepiece designes calls a compromise.

I would guess that the 25mm if and when we see it will show no more than a 31mm Nagler or the 30mm ExSc so why not just buy that at what I am sure will be half the price or less.

Anyone out there in SGL that has a scope that could use this Monster or even know of a scope that has this fitting system?

Alan.

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From reading the thread on CN, anything with a focusser or baffle tube larger than 2 inches - that includes SCT from Celestron C11 and C14, and some Meade SCTs (not to mention some refractors whose names escape me). You'd just need a 3 inch diagonal to hold the beastie :eek:

Mr Nagler's infamous comments are regarding 100 degree 2 inch eyepieces are they not? Just because Mr Nagler has defined a range of parameters which TV will not compromise on for the Ethos range (for consistency of experience?), it doesn't mean that others couldn't or shouldn't. Don't get me wrong I have invested in TV's expertise in bringing me a wonderful experience at the eyepiece and someday I will surely do so again, but without choices in this world it would be a very dull place indeed.

A different set of criteria must surely apply to a 3 inch design. Likewise ES must have chosen different criteria from TV for the 25mm 100 degree and 9mm 120 degree eyepieces, deviating from the clone mentality. At least the first but maybe all of these will be very limited volume, not least because of the application (I struggle with 100 degrees!) and practicalities of the eyepieces themselves and the small size of the target markets, but also the sticker price. If they think they can make money from such beasties, good luck to them! :cool:

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Dunkster,

I don't disagree with what you say. What I was getting at is that for this monster maybe they too have seen the area of compromise and in turn gone to the 3 inch barrel to go larger. I think the field stop would permit a 25mm but no doubt if done Televue would squeeze a 26mm out of it, they always seem to. It will only be a matter of time before we see what comes to the marketplace, if Ex Sc throw a double six well done to them, I don't have shares in either company ( maybe should have in TV the amount I have spent ). If however there are issues you would have to agree that Mr Nagler had a point.

Lets hope Ex Sc do come off on top with this it is good for the hobby, I found the 120 degree 9mm a little un-necessary in my books.

One can only guess at what these will cost maybe even too much for me. You also have to consider a 3 inch Diagonal will not be buy one get one free. I am sure the eyepiece will be well over 1000 pounds.

Alan.

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Yeah, if they do produce it, then they'll need to produce a matching 3 inch diagonal to go with it :D

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for sure... I have the ES82 30mm and that is probably beastly enough to be fair, but I could use something longer for the C11 ;)

It'll be interesting to see if ES continue to be a cloner or actually do indeed show their mettle and produce something out there, is the 9mm 120 degree just a hint? Anyhow, whatever happens, it should be an interesting ride :cool: choices are always good, that's my overriding feeling. Rarely anything good comes out of a monopoly :eek: I don't doubt whether or not Mr Nagler is right, only that he is right about his product based on his determination of what is right for the market. It sure hasn't done the company any harm this far... but that's not to say a different set of compromises can't be appealing to different folks also (without knowing what they might be and my limited understanding of optics/physics, that'll be about as far as I can stretch it!)

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Dunkster,

I guess we have to wait and see. I have just been up to the house, we cant live there at the moment due to lack of water.

I looked at my 12 inch and tried to imagine what a 3 inch diagonal and 30mm 100 dgree eyepiece would look like. It's a bit of a shame I've just got a Moonlite focuser for it. I am under the impression that the housing for the diagonal will screw directly to the 31/4 inch thread at the rear in the same way the Moonlite does. Maybe the 12 inch is not big enough for such, I think it would put a great deal of stress on the motors and bearings because you would have to use counterweights as well. Eyepiece, diagoal and counterweights system could weigh as much as the tube.

Alan

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Just stumbled upon this pic of the 3" brute beside the 30mm 82°...

post-11833-0-00565900-1352851473_thumb.j

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Oh my :eek::D:eek:

Alan - given that I not too long ago upgraded from a C6 with a 2 inch SCT diagonal (to hold the precious Nagler no less) I can imagine what that beast and diagonal might look like on my C11 :D it kind of puts things in a different perspective if you can excuse the pun.

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C11 with a 3 inch diagonal, It should be possible it has the 3 and a bit inch SC thread at the rear, same as mine. I tell you if we tried it the scopes wouldn't stuggle to point to the zenith.

Alan.

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Where do we draw the line? When does it stop being an eyepiece in a focuser, and become stuffing a telescope inside another telescope? Lol

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C11 with a 3 inch diagonal, It should be possible it has the 3 and a bit inch SC thread at the rear, same as mine. I tell you if we tried it the scopes wouldn't stuggle to point to the zenith.

Alan.

Without nicking some weights from the gym, that might be all they point at :D

Edited by Dunkster
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Where do we draw the line? When does it stop being an eyepiece in a focuser, and become stuffing a telescope inside another telescope? Lol

Jimmy,

Send this idea to ExSc I think it's got legs.

Alan.

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I don't wish to sound negative but I fear this one will have such a limited market that it will be a flop - a bit like the 50" Orion USA dob. I just cannot see the benefits outweighing the negatives (pun sort of intended). is there really such a big difference from a 30/31 82 degree eyepiece?

Yes, there is!

I have a 400mm f/4.7 dob. With my pupil at 5mm ( at night, best I get now :mad: ) using a 30mm f/l eyepiece restricts my effective aperture to 313mm. To use the full 400mm I cannot use an eyepiece of longer focal length than 23.5mm with the consequential limitation on actual field of view.

The effect of the eye's pupil size rarely seems to be mentioned when discussing eyepieces for fast optics when it is vitally important.

Nigel

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