Debayering a DSLR's Bayer matrix.

[YellowPacman]

Tried to remove glass off sony a7 sensor.

I used a rotary tool (dremel 3000 analog) and grinded the sensor glass to this condition. Then i tried to grind it with a broach file (not sure about translation)

The glass had broken, cracked to inside and damaged a couple of those tiny gold wires, so sensor is dead :(( (assebmbled back, the camera is alive but black image)

Is there any known safe way for a glass removal from d600/a7 sensor?

 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by YellowPacman

[Thalestris24]

Hi

I don't think many people are bothering with the highly risky and time consuming labour of self debayering dslr sensors. With the advent of (relatively) cheap large sensor, cooled mono cameras like the qhy163m, it's better to save up for one of them.

Louise

[Gina]

Yes, I gave up on debayering ages ago.

[benzomobile]

Hi all,

who knows (with fair approximation) from which plastic material is made up the Canon eos CFA layer, starting from the 450D's one?      I I'd an idea  and  I'll tell you 

Joe

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by benzomobile

[benzomobile]

My debayering idea is as follows:
Knowing the composition of CFA (we know  the matter of microlenses  is a sort of acrylic compound), hopefully a suitable paint should be capable of a very good affinity with the CFA to adhere firmly to it.
After spraying the paint on the surface of the sensor freed from the micro-lens layer, it could be removed more easily - once dried, with the classic wood chisel.
I'm looking for the right paint to do some tests with.

So my question is: "What kind of substance does constitute cfa of last generation Canon eos sensors?"

Joe

Edited March 11, 2018 by benzomobile

[Thalestris24]

I think Canon use epoxy...

 

[benzomobile]

46 minutes ago, Thalestris24 said:

I think Canon use epoxy...

 

I suppose the same, too ...

J

[benzomobile]

13 minutes ago, benzomobile said:

I suppose the same, too ...

J

So,  what do you think about this 'remover' ?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/18oz-Premium-Strong-Coating-Epoxy-Varnish-Paint-Remover-Stripper-Spray-Aerosol/132533295565?hash=item1edb9999cd:g:BrQAAOSwDdNao9Z-

[Thalestris24]

6 minutes ago, benzomobile said:

So,  what do you think about this 'remover' ?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/18oz-Premium-Strong-Coating-Epoxy-Varnish-Paint-Remover-Stripper-Spray-Aerosol/132533295565?hash=item1edb9999cd:g:BrQAAOSwDdNao9Z-

It say "Strips multiple layers of latex and oil-based paint, polyurethane, epoxy, Varnish and shellac from wood, metal and masonry surfaces".

It might dissolve the sensor and any pcb it comes in contact with!

[benzomobile]

Just now, Thalestris24 said:

It say "Strips multiple layers of latex and oil-based paint, polyurethane, epoxy, Varnish and shellac from wood, metal and masonry surfaces".

It might dissolve the sensor and any pcb it comes in contact with!

It's only a mere alternative workin' hypotesis. Of course you don't have to do this treatment onto anything other than sensor surface! :-)

[benzomobile]

7 minutes ago, Thalestris24 said:

It say "Strips multiple layers of latex and oil-based paint, polyurethane, epoxy, Varnish and shellac from wood, metal and masonry surfaces".

It might dissolve the sensor and any pcb it comes in contact with!

The outer edges and the gold threads must be well protected,  ça va sans dire ...

[Gina]

That is the problem!!

[RayD]

Holy cow I've just seen this thread.  I didn't know people did this......that's scary!  I've seen what paint stripper does to paint, I dread to think what it would do to a camera sensor!

[benzomobile]

16 minutes ago, RayD said:

Holy cow I've just seen this thread.  I didn't know people did this......that's scary!  I've seen what paint stripper does to paint, I dread to think what it would do to a camera sensor!

Well, epoxy paint only. After, I will have to strip it.

I've find this one:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vernice-Epossidica-VHT-Nero-Satinato/222802757189?hash=item33e0144645:g:hhIAAOSwjytaYiE6

Joe

[Gina]

I tried debayering - I gave up after spending something like a grand on non-working cameras from ebay and finishing them off completely!!  And I don't give up easily as many on here will know.

[benzomobile]

9 hours ago, Gina said:

I tried debayering - I gave up after spending something like a grand on non-working cameras from ebay and finishing them off completely!!  And I don't give up easily as many on here will know.

Hello Gina,

I've successfully  debayered in past three Canon sensors (two 350D and  one 450D). My goal is  to perform my task in alternative manner, faster and  better, with a sort of peeling methode. 

I will try some test for that involving flexible adhesive for acrylic (as acrylic spray paint) to remove microlenses, and  after a suitable adhesive - likely silicon based sealant, for CFA layer. 

Both adhesives  must adhere strongly to the substrate, but at the same time remain flexible for easy removal.

Joe

Edited March 12, 2018 by benzomobile

[Gina]

Well done   As I recall I was successful with a 450D but later models were "better protected and vandal-proof"   Then there was the problem that these sensors didn't respond well to cooling with no improvement in noise below -5C and only a little below zero.

[benzomobile]

1 hour ago, Gina said:

Well done   As I recall I was successful with a 450D but later models were "better protected and vandal-proof"   Then there was the problem that these sensors didn't respond well to cooling with no improvement in noise below -5C and only a little below zero.

You're in right, Gina. I suppose thermal noise doesn't come entirely from sensor in se and per se.  

Even every single other electronic components  provides its own contribution to form the overall noise.
Perhaps this is the reason why cooling  the sensor alone do reduce the noise, but not beyond  -0.5 ° C circa. Maybe.
We should be able to cool the whole camera, but ... this is another good story 

So long,

Joe

Edited March 12, 2018 by benzomobile

[angryowl]

A bit late to the party but I too have been interested for quite a while in debayering DSLR sensors.

I had a go at a Canon 350D sensor first which ended up in a complete disaster but that was a few quid off Ebay so didn't really break the bank.

Mt second attempt was with a Canon 20D sensor and was completely successful! Went scraping carefully with a toothpick and got all of the CFA and lenses off and somehow managed not to touch or damage any of the small wires at the edges of the sensor. Glued the glass piece back on with epoxy and all looked well.

Tried it back on the camera and of course there were some scratches and other debris left on the sensor but those can de easily removed via a flat frame.

https://imgur.com/a/C4hMw

Third image is a pure flat showing the scratches and imperfections
Fourth image is a light sub exposure in which the scratches are still visible with no flats applied
Fifth image is a proper integrated and calibrated image made up of 21 lights and 13 flats. As can be seen after calibration and integration all of the scratches and imperfections have been completely removed leaving a great looking monochrome image. These were processed in Pixinsight

Read somewhere that the 20D has an estimated 30% QE which isn't too bad, but I sort of abandoned the project and I've had the sensor for about a year and now deciding whether or not to buy a cheap 20D off Ebay, replace the sensor and actually make some use of it. Only problem is the dimensions of the 20D are huge and considering my RASA scope, the camera body would take up quite a bit of space. Then of course there's the noise in the sensor, meaning another DIY TEC cooling project for which I don't have the time for.

[tooth_dr]

On 04/04/2018 at 17:10, angryowl said:

A bit late to the party but I too have been interested for quite a while in debayering DSLR sensors.

I had a go at a Canon 350D sensor first which ended up in a complete disaster but that was a few quid off Ebay so didn't really break the bank.

Mt second attempt was with a Canon 20D sensor and was completely successful! Went scraping carefully with a toothpick and got all of the CFA and lenses off and somehow managed not to touch or damage any of the small wires at the edges of the sensor. Glued the glass piece back on with epoxy and all looked well.

Tried it back on the camera and of course there were some scratches and other debris left on the sensor but those can de easily removed via a flat frame.

https://imgur.com/a/C4hMw

Third image is a pure flat showing the scratches and imperfections
Fourth image is a light sub exposure in which the scratches are still visible with no flats applied
Fifth image is a proper integrated and calibrated image made up of 21 lights and 13 flats. As can be seen after calibration and integration all of the scratches and imperfections have been completely removed leaving a great looking monochrome image. These were processed in Pixinsight

Read somewhere that the 20D has an estimated 30% QE which isn't too bad, but I sort of abandoned the project and I've had the sensor for about a year and now deciding whether or not to buy a cheap 20D off Ebay, replace the sensor and actually make some use of it. Only problem is the dimensions of the 20D are huge and considering my RASA scope, the camera body would take up quite a bit of space. Then of course there's the noise in the sensor, meaning another DIY TEC cooling project for which I don't have the time for.

I just bought a 20d off ebay last night, whilst lying in bed last night quite late on!  Once it arrives I'll try it out with the sensor you gave me CHEERS!!

[Kurdistan]

Hi every body, I saw your topic a few days ago and got interested  I have an old Canon 30D and tried to debayer it.  It seems like canon 30D doesn't have the two separated filter of LPF1 and LPF2 and there is only one filter that should be replaced by an IR-cut filter. I went through the process and removed the filter (it looks like three combined filters that can not be separated) and then got rid of the glue around the glass. I tried to lose the glue by pushing the edges of the glass gradually. I dd it successfully, but the glass was not coming out and after 1 hour trying it didn't survive. Finally I started the debayering. I tried to scratch the coating by a hard plastic piece and didn't work. Then I used a toothpick and it scratched it in a few minutes. But, I am not sure which layer/layers I have removed. It seems like I need to remove one more layer. Can someone please help me and tell me which layer/layers are removed. You can see some scratch like defects in the attached last two pics. I thought I have damaged the sensor, but the scratches contain information and it seems like the scratches are what I am supposed to get which means one more layer should be scratched. If it needs one more layer, it would be hard to do by a wooden tool. The camera is now full spectrum and there is nothing in front of the sensor. any help appreciated.

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kurdistan

[Gina]

There's usually a layer of micro-lenses then the Bayer layer.  Below that is the sensor itself.  It's all too easy to go to deep and destroy the sensor.  Be very careful not to touch the blue surround.  And especially the very fine gold wires round the outside.  Break one of those and the sensor is dead!  Good luck ?

Edited June 23, 2018 by Gina

[Kurdistan]

Thanks Gina, I took care of them very well. What do you think about those scratches? Do you think I need to remove one more layer? Have I removed only the microlens?

[Kurdistan]

I went over it again and removed the green layer which was the debayer layer. The first one that came off easily was the microlens. I forgot to remove the battery and in the middle shutter started working very fast and I took out the battery right away. Finished the work and didn't damage the blue line and golden connections. But, the camera doesn't turn on and I only see a solid blue light which doesn't turn of when I turn the camera on/off. If it was because of sensor, I think it should power on but showing black screen or giving and error. Any idea what has happened? the bottom line will be getting another 30D and test the sensor on it. I removed the batteries(both) and CF card and put it back and it still doesn't turn on.

[Gina]

Check all connections.  Make sure all ribbon cables are fully inserted into the connectors.  This is the usual trouble.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Gina