Polar alignment...10, Me...0 - I surrender!

[The Camel]

Having bought what is, after my house and car, the single most expensive item I have ever purchased - namely a Celestron 9.25" on a EQ5 PRO Synscan GOTO mount - I have spectacularly failed to understand the concept of polar alignment. After 10 weeks of banging my head on the wall (door, table - you get the picture) and lots of good advice from people here. I am no closer to figuring it out and my level of frustration and now (dare I say) loathing of this piece of kit is at truly epic proportions. I've read and re-read manuals, watched You-Tube videos etc etc and it just does not sink in. I've yet to figure out even how to align the polarscope although I suspect a sledge hammer would work. I know I am being neutron star-like (i.e. unbelievably dense) about this, but that's mental blocks for you. This thing has sat in my living room and been trundled back and forth into the garden for another abortive attempt for 10 weeks now and all it does is smirk at me. I detest it. So much so that I am at the point where I want to see it gone from my house because I don't think I'll ever grasp this concept and the debate that goes on in my head is fairly evenly divided between taking a very large hammer to it or selling it (catharsis vs. cash). Somewhat extreme - but right now it represents utterly wasted money and I simply don't want to have to look at it every day and thus feel even more frustrated and useless than I already do.

I never had this problem with my Meade 105AT - it took just a couple of minutes to get it sorted and working like a dream. But the Celestron/SynScan? 10 weeks? No, I can't believe it either!

So, I guess this is my last gasp on this to ask, please, if there is anyone out there who can actually show me how to get this thing working because, as of now, I have given up trying and if I can't get it working then it either needs to be sold or scrapped: its presence is seriously eroding my peace of mind and, more important, my enjoyment of the night skies.

[space3]

id leave the sledge hammer in the shed for a start, dont let it near the scope/mount,

I can relate to your post, I read my manual over and over with my first scope and couldnt make any sense of it, this will all work out,

are you polar aligning for visual or astro photography, for visual it doesnt have to be that precise

[Astro Imp]

I would look to go along to your local Astro Society. You can find those near you from The Federation of Astronomical Societies.

http://fedastro.org.uk/fas/

[DirkSteele]

This video from Eyes on the Sky might help, if you are actually struggling with the mechanics of polar alignment and not something idiosyncratic to that mount.

Clear skies,

[Capricorn]

Why not contact this lot:

http://www.bakerstreetastro.org.uk/

And ask when the next meet is, November it says, and enquire if someone will show you how to do a polar alignment either on yours or on one of the members mounts. I would ask if one of the people there will have a similar mount and not have the trouble of taking yours unless transport of it is easy.

Another option is the Guildford astro group, they have evenings for people to observe or to get help.

May be too far as I thought I read your location as SE London, see it is SW but I will leave it in as an option.

A quick read again makes me suspect that as you say something hasn't clicked.

You say: "I've yet to figure out even how to align the polarscope although I suspect a sledge hammer would work."

That is the Polar Alignment.

Which makes me think you are trying that and something else combined and so throwing yourself way off course.

By the way a 1Kg club hammer is a lot easier to swing then a sledge hammer, and the more times needed to hit something like one of these is increased owing to the lesser weight but overall it is a lot more satisfying.

[malc-c]

Polar alignment is nest to collimation on the top topics discussed on this forum so there are plenty of threads on the subject. Use the search function to get some back ground info.

Basic crude alignment for visual:

• Set the mount to the same angle as your latitude.
  
• Point the mount North
  
• Rotate the mount's DEC axis so you can view through the polar scope.
  
• Centre Polaris on the cross in the middle.
  
• Place the scope in the default home position of weights down in line with the N tripod leg, and the scope pointing North.
  
• Run through the synscan start up - making sure you input your location in for long / lat as hours minutes seconds and not decimal values, and the date is in US format
  
• Just before the star alignment option the handset will display the position of Polaris as a clock position (24hr format). Release the DEC axis lock so you can look through the polar scope, and then release the RA lock so you can rotate the mount until the bubble on the ring is in this clock position. Remember that 12:00 hrs will be at the bottom, 06:00 hrs to the right. (this isn't essential but will give better results) - Lock off the RA axis
  
• Use the alt / az bolts to position position Polaris in the bubble.
  
• Release the locks and place the scope back in the home position, and lock the axis
  
• Select 2 star alignment and pick your first star you can identify.
  
• let the mount slew to where it thinks the star should be and wait for the beep
  
• Use a low power eyepiece and check the position of the star. It will probably be off target.
  
• Release the locks and manually position the star in the centre of the eyepiece and lock the axis one more
  
• Confirm the target is centred and select a second star
  
• Let the scope slew to where it thinks it should be. It will probably be out but not by a lot
  
• This time use the directional buttons on the handset to centre the star.
  
• Alignment should be complete
  

Hope that helps

[Celeste]

Aww bless ya! I'm still a newbie myself.I managed to figure out polar aligning i'm sure you can! Make sure you have the alt set right (I have 52deg) then all you do is point the mount (polarscope) to north (get a compass, makes it easier) look through the polarscope and spy polaris (quite bright)....you see the larger circle (with a small circle on it) on the polarsope...try to get polaris somewhere on the circle (if visual) then spy polaris in your scope EP. If you see it in the view...your fine for visual. It's how i've muddled along for the last 2 years If it's for AP it's a much more refined procedure...which I haven't attempted yet. As for polarscope alignment...there's a good vid on youtube showing how to check and correct your polarscope. I attempted it...but soon figured the reason I can't...on of my alt bolts is bent pfft.

[DirkSteele]

Why not contact this lot:

http://www.bakerstreetastro.org.uk/

We are a very friendly bunch, and there will plenty of people there who can help. We usually meet on either the Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday (depending on weather) of the week closest to new moon. Sign up to the email distribution list to be notified when the next meeting is. And best of all, it is a free astronomy club.

[Jiggy 67]

For visual, I wouldn't bother callobrating the polar scope, just point the mount North, set your latitude and get Polaris in the view of the large circle in the centre of the polarscope....done, should take no more than 5 minutes.....astrophotography??...different story but get your head around the basics first

[bobgunnis]

This is what I do

My Polar Alignment

Take the weights and scope off and leave them inside ~~ your Polar Aligning the MOUNT NOT THE SCOPE

Run Polar Finder, Free software

Set up the Mount and point it to North

Remove the Black cap and the white cap from the Polar Scope

Release the RA knob and to move the weight arm

Release the Dec knob and rotate the scope so that the Polar Finder can be seen looking through the Polar Scope

Move the weight arm until the little white circle in the Polar scope matches that of the one shown in Polar Finder

Lock the RA and Dec knobs

Adjust the Altitude T bolts and remember to slacken one off and adjust with the other, until Polaris is centred in the little white circle on the Polar Scope. Once adjusted correctly, tighten but DON’T OVER TIGHTEN

Adjust the Azimuth adjustment knob and adjust the azimuth until Polaris is centred in the small white circle on the Polar Scope. Once adjusted correctly, tighten the knobs so they are tight but DON’T OVER TIGHTEN

Check Polaris hasn’t moved and is still centred

Return the mount to the “Home” Position

Add weights

Add the Scope

Ths works for me and takes all of between 1 and 2 minutes at the outside ~~ try it.

[skybadger]

Bob, Im not convinced of the 'leave the scope off approach'. There's an awful lot of potential for movement when putting the weights on one end and the scope on the other that easily causes your careful alignment to be lost.

It's just as easy to do it with the kit on and balanced.

Mike

[tone2012]

all sounds technical for me to do yet lol

[allcart]

I feel your pain Camel. Just the words 'polar alignment' used to bring me out in a sweat. I really used to struggle with the mechanics of it when I had just a scope with a finder on it. Now i have the CG5-gt goto with a built in polar scope and its a piece of cake. I polar align my mount with just a camera on it.

There is plenty of good advice here on how to do it, so I won't add to it, but one valuable tip I learned on SGL was that once I had managed to polar align for the first time, MARK the feet position. I have a crazy paved garden, so I glued a washer under each foot on the tripod. Now all I do is place the feet back in the washers and centre polaris again. I then run the star align proggy on the hanset and I'm good to go.

Don't give up M8. Once you have it sussed, it will be easy.

[Liofa]

I found Astrobaby's guide really good. Lots of pictures.

http://www.astro-baby.com/HEQ5/HEQ5-1.htm

[cantharis]

So, I guess this is my last gasp on this to ask, please, if there is anyone out there who can actually show me how to get this thing working because, as of now, I have given up trying and if I can't get it working then it either needs to be sold or scrapped: its presence is seriously eroding my peace of mind and, more important, my enjoyment of the night skies.

I will be happy to take it off your hands !!

[sgazer]

to get yourself going with the scope and avoid any further frustration before you've even had a chance to look through it, a very quick polar alignment will be more than enough for visual observations. Forget about the polar alignment scope. Simply set the tripod on flat ground with the North leg and mount (weights) pointing North (use a compass) and adjust the altitude bolts to your latitude (ie,. 52 degrees), there polar alignment is done!

You can then proceed with 2 star alignment and that will get the GOTO working.

I only ever did accurate polar alignment for long exposure imaging, even then I just aligned the tripod legs with some marks on the ground each night instead of redoing it and found that with autoguiding, it was fine for 5 minutes exposures. So for visual, a very basic alignment as above is needed.

[skybadger]

I can't guess where you are but maybe there's an SGL member near you who can help out. With a visit.

[malc-c]

So, I guess this is my last gasp on this to ask, please, if there is anyone out there who can actually show me how to get this thing working because, as of now, I have given up trying and if I can't get it working then it either needs to be sold or scrapped: its presence is seriously eroding my peace of mind and, more important, my enjoyment of the night skies.

Firstly, you've had a lot of support in this thread, so you should be able to follow that advice and get further than you did before.

Secondly, google the federation of astronomical societies which will have a list of societies near you, or just search for societies in your area and make contact with them. Most societies will run regular star parties and will be able to show you how to set the scope up and answer all your questions. You're in SW London, and already received an invitation from the Baker Street group... if you really want to learn then you'll have to put the effort in rather than expect others to come running

[Astrosurf]

I do sooooo understand where you're coming from! I had exactly he same problem. The Skywatcher manuals are awful or at least that's what I've found. As Liofa suggested, Astrobaby's guide is great and helped me through my block. I'm not familiar with your mount and how similar it is to the HEQ5 (I hope someone tells me!). I also spoke to her about a specific block which she talked me through. That lady was responsible for the successes I've achieved so far, at least in terms of getting me started in the first place. This forum has helped me the rest of the way.

This is a hobby that can be awkward to get started on, but once you've started you're off and away! Never give in to frustrations. This is a great forum and always very helpful.

NEVER GIVE UP; NEVER SURRENDER!

All the best, and let us know how you get on.

Alexxx

[VigdisVZ]

+ 1 for Baker Street (or any other local club). I managed to roughly polar align yesterday for the first time, but I plan on asking a bunch of guys in my club to help me verify it's actually polaris im homing on to.

[The Camel]

A very big thank you to all who have responded - it has helped boost my flagging confidence and determination to get this problem sorted by a method other than metal deformation. Having had so much pleasure using my Meade - which is so easy to set up - it came as quite a shock to discover that the EQ5 required advanced yoga techniques just to get in a position to use the polarscope let alone understand it. Thanks for the info, DirkSteele, I have now asked to be added to the Baker Street newsletter although a browser glitch means I am not sure whether my request got through so have also emailed a query to clarify. Hopefully I can then drag my brain and 'scope along to a meet and maybe get some alignment advice pounded through my cranium. Quite agree malc-c : I was not looking for a house call but directions to somewhere where I might gain the wisdom needed to get this irksome piece of kit to do my bidding. It also appears I have a local Astro Soc, so will seek them out too. And indeed, Guildford is just a short hop down the road. So there may be soon be light at the end of the tunnel (or 'scope).

I've seen a couple of articles about needing to check the alignment of the polarscope with the tripod first but that seems to entail either finding a radio mast or building a scaffold tower a few hundred metres tall in the back garden..... Tried using a target on an upstairs window but if the target is in focus the polarscope isn't - and vice versa - so not sure what to do about that (I'm assuming if this is out of alignment then all else is folly?). Thank you for the step by step, bobgunnis - will give it a try. I had indeed looked at Astrobaby early on but the mount is sufficiently different to the EQ5 that I simply couldn't follow how to do the same thing. Hadn't thought about whether, once I am bent double under the polarscope, I would be looking at the right star - oh dear. I will let you all know how this pans out. Thanks again.

[bobgunnis]

Your very welcome and hope my method helps you overcome this frustration. I have and EQ5 SynScan GoTo with a SkyWatcher ED80 Pro and I always polar align with no weight or scope on the mount. Some people don't seem to be able to get their head round the fact that your Polar Aligning the Mount and Not the scope, hence my way of doing it and the reasons for not needing the weights or scope eliminate this thought ~~ Good Luck and get back to us when you have sorted this problem out.

[skybadger]

Tried using a target on an upstairs window but if the target is in focus the polarscope isn't - and vice versa

I hope you are using the polar scope to view the distant target and not the telescope. Its all about the mount and not the telescope.

So you should only be viewing through the polarscope and rotating the mount around the Ra axis to determine whether the polarscope is aligned with the mount properly. There will be an imge shift if it isn't.

Mike

[NickK]

If it makes you feel better - it's taken a couple of years.. I now I use the 0'clock + ASCOM/EQMac to set the angle and align.. I've had 20 minute guided subs from an EQ6 at 1340mm focal length using visual only

[66mikeg]

DON'T PANIC Astrobaby's guide is very good I got really confused trying to identify the different scales from the SW manual but Astrobaby's guide labels them and everything makes sense. In fact I aligned the reticule in the polar scope and downloaded a free program called polar finder and all became clear (apart from the skies of course)