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Why get binoculars?


jnb

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I've been wondering if in the short term I should get a pair of big binoculars while I hum and ha about what sort of telescope(s) I might get. Looking at some of the prices it seems that there are some stuff out there at the budget end but most semi decent binoculars cost quite a bit, for example pentax 10x50 porros for £150. Now for £150 I can buy a semi decent refractor with a larger aperture, a selection of lenses and a tripod.

So what's the advantage of binoculars?

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forgot to mention advantages.

no cool down , grab and go with no preperation for those gap in the cloud moments, use them for other things than star gazing, wide field views ,which on a cold clear night can be as breathtaking as anything through a telescope. you can turn them around and look through the aperture end ( because we all do it come on ? :p )

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Binos are the ultimate in portability and ease of use. If you don't want to pay too much to find out try these:-

http://www.7dayshop.com/7dayshop-10x50-sport-series-binoculars-ref-7day10x50?q=binoculars&sl=sl

Don't be put off by the low price. I have a couple of pairs. 10 and 12X50s. The BAK-4 prisms really let the light through and have a 6.5 degree FOV (10X50). Under dark skies they are quite simply amazing for the cost. Even in light polluted skies it is possible to see Jupiter's moons with them on a clear night. :laugh:

Baz.

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I think binos are a must, I went and bought binos after I had a telescope, so with the binos youll definately keep them as where with telescopes youll eventually want to upgrade,

so maybe dont rush into buying a telescope til your sure its what you want, binos are a small investment, and a good one

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If you have a pair of standard birding binoculars use them, they will do everything the astro ones do and you do not need a tripod to keep what you steady. Even at 15x you need a tripod.

If you want a set of binoculars just get 8x42's, they do everything anyway.

Buying binoculars in effect takes money from the telescope fund and delays getting a scope. You could get a 70mm dia, 700mm FL scope from TS for around £60 on a simple Alt/Ax mount. That wouild allow you to see Jupiter as a fair disc and bands - will need another eyepiece to what is supplied.

Binoculars are useful, they magnify a bit, Jupiter is still a very small disc however. Main aspect is the aperture allows more to be seen so a little more becomes visible to you but for magnification 15x just isn't up to it.

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So are large binoculars worth buying? A pair of 10x50 is something that I might carry around with me and which one could hold with relative ease. On the other hand something like 15x70 might need tripods or be too cumbersome for prolonged use at which point the ease of use argument is less valid.

(I mention 15x70 because I was looking at some cheap Revelation 15x70 recently)

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If you have a pair of standard birding binoculars use them, they will do everything the astro ones do and you do not need a tripod to keep what you steady.

I have a pair of compact binoculars but at 7-15x25 that's an awfully small objective for astro use. Hence my looking at binoculars

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So are large binoculars worth buying? A pair of 10x50 is something that I might carry around with me and which one could hold with relative ease. On the other hand something like 15x70 might need tripods or be too cumbersome for prolonged use at which point the ease of use argument is less valid.

(I mention 15x70 because I was looking at some cheap Revelation 15x70 recently)

I have 15x70s, and I had to buy a tripod as they just get to heavy, and are not steady using by hand,

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Hi and welcome to SGL

Repeating some of what's been said above get yourself a basic pair of 7x50 or 10x50 bins, fully multi-coated lenses, porro prism design and BaK4 prisms (higher quality glass so greater light transmission). Check this pair out:

http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Meade_10x50_Binocular_Special_Offer.html

HTH!

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You will be hard pushed to spend a better £40 than that on astronomy kit.10x50s are fantastic allrounders. Today I've used mine to look at squirrels, buzzards, deer, the double cluster and the andromeda galaxy, and i'm going back out later to look at Jupiter and the pleiades.

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It is really a case of are you getting the binoculars, at this time, instead of a scope or as well as a scope.

I am never keen on the idea of getting a set instead of a scope, however if as well as a scope then they are worthwhile.

The idea of a set of 15x70 and a tripod is fine, as long as you understand that £40-50 on binoculars then say £30 on a tripod, probably £10 on the adaptor to connect to 2 together is a fair bit of a budget, so far £80. If you were saving for a £200 scope that is a fair proportion removed from the available money, and longer before you have the scope to look through.

I have binoculars and use them a lot, they have limitations, I have 8x42 and some 15x's, I can see Jupiter is a small disc, no detail or bands and possibly 4 dots that are the moons. Through a 70mm scope at about 36x I see Jupiter as a bigger disk (understandable), some banding, little colour and the 4 moons are still dots but there is a colour difference between them that can be made out. I can then swap eyepieces and get more detail.

It is a bit difficult to say don't get some when you use them a lot - I do they are useful. To me it really is a case of if you want a scope get a scope, if you want binoculars get binoculars but don't get one as a replacement for the other.

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I would agree with getting a reasonable pair of 10x50's if you are struggling to decide which scope to get. They are light enough to hand hold for a long time, and the magnification means you can hold them steady enough without a tripod.

I don't really see the point in considering viewing planets in binoculars, that is not really what they are good at as the magnification is just too low. Yes, you will be able to see Jupiter as a small disk with the Galilean moons around it, but that is about it, and it is also missing the point. Binoculars are wonderful for widefield views of a range of objects, particularly open clusters and also some of the larger nebulae and galaxies. M31 from a very dark site looks great in binos, and clusters like M45 are too large for many scopes so, again, binos give the best views.

The benefits are instant viewing, no cool down or setup time and you can take them anywhere, particularly to dark sites or on holiday. They will also help you learn the sky more easily, stars are easier to locate and you can orientate yourself easily as the image is the correct way round. Lastly, the widefield views are excellent, and offer something different from a scope. As has already been said, they are complementary rather than it having to be an either/or decision, I have binos and scopes and use them all when it suits.

Just my thoughts, hopefully of some help.

Cheers

Stu

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I have used bins all my life when birding and insect recording etc. however, I find that bins are the ultimate in discomfort when observing the sky.

even my 7x36 decent roof prism bins are a pain in the neck (literally). I have also tried a good quality (Helios Apollo) 15x70s and just could not get on with them. To me the advantages of a scope to my far outweigh the occasional situation when using bins is possible and a scope impossible.

observing in comfort is a major want for me and is one of the main reasons I use dobsonians as I find the refractor observing position equally back and neck twisting.

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I started with bins 10x50 and still use them.

Agree with Shane, positioning is important. Therefore the best way to use a binocular is actually lounging or even lying down.

So a kind of lounger is important.

On mobile (excuse the strange predictive words...)

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I just fixed my 16x50's a few days ago, I saw the Milky Way as a gray patch from my light polluted backyard, Jupiter's moons are usually all visible if you rest your elbows on something to stabilize the image. The Andromeda Galaxy, Double Cluster, many globulars, and other nebulae are all easier to find and it doesn't feel like you're looking through a tube pointed at the sky. Wide FOV's are comfortable, and if you lay down on a towel and pillow, you can stargaze without the pain of bending your neck to look through an eyepiece or to find something high up in the sky. Bins are very versatile, light (depending on the type you get) and, as mentioned by others above, "grab-n-go". Lovin' my newly working 16x50's and older 7x50's. Always worth getting bins of any size! :bino2:

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Binos are great for DSO hunting, you quickly lose count of them after a while. I hand hold my 15x70s but once I've found an object ill lean my elbows on something to see more detail, what's the point of the freedom of binos if you just restrain them by putting them on a tripod?

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FWIW, here's my take, based on my kit, of what is good for what:

Binoculars (general): Set-up time tends to be zero to minimal. Two eyed viewing tends to be more comfortable (assuming properly collimated binoculars), floaters are suppressed, blind-spot of one eye is covered by the other eye, false stereopsis can be aesthetically pleasing. Observing high-altitude objects is literally a pain in the neck unless you either recline or have angled eyepieces.

Small (10x42, 10x50): Keep one in the car, so I always have an instrument to hand. Slung around the neck for any observing, helps to get orientation, especially in light-polluted skies when fainter detail is lost to the unaided eye. Still hundreds of DSOs available. The 10x50, when mounted, is an ideal "public event" instrument, as it shows people what is available through a "standard" binocular that they can imagine owning, if they don't already have one.

Medium (15x70): Twice the light gathering of the 50mm, hand-holdable for short periods. With a monopod and trigger-grip it becomes, for me, the ultimate "grab and go" instrument. Very good for DSOs and superb for the larger ones.

Large (20/37x100): Twice the light gathering of the 70mm, but must be mounted (takes ~10 mins on the parallelogram). Superb for many DSOs. On nights where you are chasing gaps in the cloud, tends to be faster than scopes (especially computerised ones) for locating objects. Must have angled eyepieces to be really useful.

Telescopes (general): Higher magnification a benefit for some objects. More easily amenable to filtering at the eyepiece end (UHC, -V, ND, colours, etc). Range of magnification/ FoV/ exit pupils easily available via change of eyepiece. Can be mounted equatorially for imaging, etc. More effective aperture for your lucre in larger sizes. Collimation, if necessary, is limited to one optical tube. Can use a binoviewer if you prefer the two-eyed view. Looking down into a star diagonal can make floaters more apparent; ditto for smaller exit pupils.

There are several different issues involved with comfortable binocular viewing. In no particular order:

  1. For objects above about 45*, if you don't want neck ache, you need something that enables you not to have to tilt your head back.
  2. If you use a tripod without something that holds the binocular away from the tripod, sooner or later your legs and the tripod's will compete for the same space.
  3. Whatever you use will need to have easy height (and, if you are seated, lateral) adjustment unless the centre of rotation of the binocular is the same as the centre of rotation of your head.
  4. The turning moment on a traditional tripod head increases as the angle you are observing at increases.

Some solutions:

  • Mirror mounts (I loathe them, but many like them) effectively solve or eliminate all of the issues above, but introduce new ones, like a reversed sky view, dewing, and difficulty in locating objects (unless you use a green laser or reflex finder).
  • A Star-chair solves all of the above, but introduces issues of storage, transport -- oh, and expense! :D.
  • Many DIY bino-chairs solve all of the above issues.
  • A reclining observing position solves #1 above.
  • Angled eyepieces solve issue #1 above.
  • Tripods are useful for supporting anything you use in #2 above (e.g. a parallelogram mount or a lateral extension arm). Ideally this will be counter-balanced, or the tripod will be supporting a cantilevered load and there is a risk of tipping.
  • An adjustable centre post on the tripod solves #3.
  • Parallelogram mounts solve #2 and #3 (and, if it is properly designed, #4).

My preferred solutions are:

  • Up to 10x50: hand-held +recliner
  • 15x70 straight-through: recliner + monopod + trigger-grip ball-head OR recliner + parallelogram
  • 100mm or larger: angled eyepieces + parallelogram.
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A reclining chair gets you far enough back for the zenith. Although you can buy a small refractor on a mount for £150 it won't be a good one, nor will it be one you'll want to keep. These days even absurdly cheap binos are acceptable. We have some £20 Bak 4s here which are not too bad at all. We also have the 15X70 Revelations which are astounding value but which I can't hand hold to any good effect myself. By the time you are up to £150 you are getting superb 8 or 10X50s. They are different from telescopes but I couldn't be without them.

Olly

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I have 10x50 and 15x70 bins. The former are quite old Bresser (made in Japan), the latter the brilliant Helios Apollo. Great grab and go instruments. The latter I can hand-hold for a while, but I use a p-mount for long sessions. A reclining chair is also ideal (we have several in our garde). If anything, the binoculars edge out my 80mm F/6 wide field scope (which is actually optically superior, but takes more time to set up). They are not a replacement for my big scope.

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