Ebay Binocular madness!

[part timer]

I havn't been on ebay for some time but for no good reason I just browsed the site and looked at binoculars out of curiosity.

My god! Has everone gone bannanas! I couldn't beleive how bad it's got on there.

Why are people bidding on this junk!

1980's supermass produced Japanese junk is sold as high quality, often with german souding branding. Some of it is really very bad indeed and yet people are snapping it up.

There are literally tens of pairs of ziess jenoptem's every day going for over £100 ! Who on earth would pay that much! Are they mad!

Jenoptems are OK, but even now you can get a pair in good condition FROM A DEALER for £50. And that's steep enough. My last pair was £30 in perfect nick also from a dealer. I sold then for £25 and felt a bit guilty about that. These are OLD bins which were never top of the range even in their day and really can't compete with decent bins today.

I have always liked Russian binoculars for their sharpness but people are buying Tento bins for upwards of £60. They are still made and sell new for less than half that!

The 20x60's are selling as if they were some thing special. They are not.

Also why, is every other russian bin sold as 'military'. they REALLY arn't! There are really only a couple of military bins made in Russia and I wouldnt buy them for any civilian use.

In short I beg anyone looking for binoculars not to throw money at ebay. I saw no bargains at all.

You can get passable new binoculars for any budget these days. It's just not worth being riped off.

[mikey32shaw]

Glad I saw this post as one of my next purchases were going to be a set of bins. I would have probably ended up on eBay as I'm a beginner so I can now heed this warning.

[Charon]

It does pay to do some research before buying.

[Laowei Tony]

As a former eBay buyer and seller (mostly jade) I can say that a lot of people go there thinking it is the internet garage sale and they will pick up a bargin. WRONG!!!

Know what you are looking for before ever going to eBay and if you see something you think is a bargin always double check outside of eBay.

I've seen people buy on eBay whay they coupl have had for less by buying from a dealer. In some cases dealers sell on eBay as well as through the internet on their own sites and on the High Street.

Good advive Proto Star.

[Chris]

I disagree I think Ebay is fantastic for bins, I picked up my Opticron Apsheric 8x42 for 26 pounds (70-80 new), my Helios Stellar 20x80 for 46 pounds (300 new) and my Swallow 10x50 vintage late 60's bins for 8 pounds plus postage and they are very good qaulity for the money. Just got be be careful and do your research, if you see something you're interested in then open a new tab and research it before you bid:)

[tim r]

Again Ebay bashing on SGL if people bid on items without a small amount of knowalge which can be found with a quick search online they only have themselves to blame unless of course its a seller out to rip you off which can be found on any formatt not just ebay. I have bought and sold astro bits from ebay and so far been very happy with the out come and will still do so

[BinocularSky]

Moral of the story #1: Research before buying.

Moral of the story #2: Learn how to distinguish between genuine Zeiss and far-eastern clones (the position of screws on the cover plates is probably the easiest diagnostic)

[Chris]

Moral of the story #1: Research before buying.

Moral of the story #2: Learn how to distinguish between genuine Zeiss and far-eastern clones (the position of screws on the cover plates is probably the easiest diagnostic)

Also, don't the clones have a different amount of digits on their serial numbers?

[catchem]

I havn't been on ebay for some time but for no good reason I just browsed the site and looked at binoculars out of curiosity.

My god! Has everone gone bannanas! I couldn't beleive how bad it's got on there.

Why are people bidding on this junk!

1980's supermass produced Japanese junk is sold as high quality, often with german souding branding. Some of it is really very bad indeed and yet people are snapping it up.

There are literally tens of pairs of ziess jenoptem's every day going for over £100 ! Who on earth would pay that much! Are they mad!

Jenoptems are OK, but even now you can get a pair in good condition FROM A DEALER for £50. And that's steep enough. My last pair was £30 in perfect nick also from a dealer. I sold then for £25 and felt a bit guilty about that. These are OLD bins which were never top of the range even in their day and really can't compete with decent bins today.

I have always liked Russian binoculars for their sharpness but people are buying Tento bins for upwards of £60. They are still made and sell new for less than half that!

The 20x60's are selling as if they were some thing special. They are not.

Also why, is every other russian bin sold as 'military'. they REALLY arn't! There are really only a couple of military bins made in Russia and I wouldnt buy them for any civilian use.

In short I beg anyone looking for binoculars not to throw money at ebay. I saw no bargains at all.

You can get passable new binoculars for any budget these days. It's just not worth being riped off.

Totally agree,,, ebay isn't what it use to be more of a sellers market now.

[yeti monster]

Whilst there are still excellent bargainses to be had, on ye olde baye des fleases, one does have to sift through an awful lot of detritus to find them. And so often do we see a bidding war send the price of used items way beyond the cost of new, even new on said baye des fleases.

It does indeed take all sorts....

[E621Keith]

I bought a pair of used Fujinon on ebay and it's amazing. However, you do have to know what you are buying, and there are more junk and rip off on fleabay than bargains.

A lot of people nowadays automatically assume anything made in Japan and Germany would represent quality, but they forgot Japan was the China in the fifties and sixties and many ebay 'made in Japan' goods came from that era.

[BinocularSky]

Also, don't the clones have a different amount of digits on their serial numbers?

Indeed they do, and the focus wheel profile is different. Some time back, someone (Italian chap?) produced a web page that demonstrated the differences - if I can find it, I'll post the URL.

(On the batphone with Tapatalk)

[E621Keith]

Do you mean this one?

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/jenoptem.html

[Astro_Baby]

Weirdly I have an old pair of WW2 binos. I did some reserach and peeps are paying waaaaaay over the odds. I found a forum which suggested £45 was the right price plus budget in £50 for a clean and check over as this particulat manufacturers binos suffer from a breakdown of the glue on the prisms.

So that would land you in for about £100. If you have nothing to compare with they look sharp enough. Mine are mint by the way. But compare them with a modern pair and my oh my you will see the difference.

The pincushioning effect is alarming as you sweep aross a horizon, like looking through a fisheye lens. They seem sharp enough until you use a pair of opticrons against them. Mine are purely memorobilia but I agree some people go bonkers on ebay.

Its old therefore its rare therefore its valuable.....wrong !! Stuff like binos was bashed out in their thousands during WW2 and a lot of it is very inferior quality because people were under the cosh to get stuff churned out.

[sologuitarist61]

It is no good bashing EBay, they just provide the marketplace.

Blame the people who are daft enough to pay over the top for goods. I remember some years ago selling a Canon Macro lens and it ended up going for more money than it would have cost new in Jessops. That wasn't my fault, or EBays, but the fault of the buyer who has either not bothered to do any homework or got caught in a bidding war that they weren't prepared to lose.

[tim r]

The last entry is bang on don't blame ebay blame the buyer

[part timer]

Just to clarify,

It's not ebay persay I intended to bash.

The main point is DO NOT shop for bargains unless you already know a LOT about what you are buying.

Be aware that well over half (mre like 80-90%) the optical items on ebay are either acidentally or deliberatley miss advertised.

Buyers are to be warned that there are VERY FEW decent bargains on offer. As i said in the original post, even decent binoculars from 20-30 years ago do not compare well to average modern chinese bins. Some do have better build quality than the cheapest modern stuff but the beginner is Much better off getting cheap and cheerfull bins new. At least they can be returned and replaced if needs be.

It's important not to think that a brand famous for some quality will have always attained that level. Swift, for example have made some famously good binoculars. They also made the majority of their money selling very low budget stuff. Guess which sells in quantity on the bay?

It is often fair to blame the buyer who bids without limit but then again if I read another advert for 'Russian/Soviet MILITARY 8x30 WW2 Binoculars" I'll screem!

[BinocularSky]

Do you mean this one?

http://www.holgermer...e/jenoptem.html

The very same; thanks, Keith.

But compare them with a modern pair and my oh my you will see the difference.

OTOH, my sister (she's a professional naturalist) still has the Zeiss 8x30 that she bought some time in the 1970s, and they are noticeably sharper than some modern fare that I have seen for over £100. My late father's Zeiss 10x50 Dekarem was similarly very good indeed; much brighter than a lot of the "FMC & BaK4" fare that is hawked today. I think the message is to research very well before buying.

I've been "hit" the other way as well. A dozen or so years ago, I used to have a very good Swift Newport 10x50; I had an opportunity to flog it and get, on recommendation, a much lighter Olympus, so did. And regretted it. So I flogged the Oly and got a Swift Newport Mk2 (I couldn't find a Mk1), which has a wider field than the Mk1. It was worse than both the Mk1 and the Oly.... Lessons learned. Eventually.

[Marki]

I dunno. Caveat emptor, I suppose. I'm no expert. I bought some late 70s/early 80s 10x50 Jenoptems on the bay for £80 and they are way better than the "Visionary" 10x42s I bought last year for £150, at least they are in terms of glass - I'd have to concede the coatings are as good if not better on the Chinese bins, but then they are 30 + years younger . Also have some Tento 12x40s and a really cheap pair of 10x50 Zeniths. The Tento cost £30 and are kinda fun (love the little orange glare reduction filters) and are quite similar in build to the Zeiss. The Zenith cost a tenner (and are honestly rubbish).

On the other hand, I take the original poster's point re research. I spent a month checking the market and monitoring prices, as well as researching the bins before I decided to go for the Zeiss pair. I am very happy with my purchase - sounds like I paid over the odds, maybe, but frankly the Jenoptems have been the most used of all my astro kit this year, and I have seen a great deal with them! And they are fantastic for bird-watching and general use etc.

[Demo johnny]

Theres a lot of stuff on ebay like that. Sometimes second had price more than the new price and you get a warranty I can't beleive how lazy some people are not to just do a quick google!

[inspectapart]

I havn't been on ebay for some time but for no good reason I just browsed the site and looked at binoculars out of curiosity.

My god! Has everone gone bannanas! I couldn't beleive how bad it's got on there.

Why are people bidding on this junk!

1980's supermass produced Japanese junk is sold as high quality, often with german souding branding. Some of it is really very bad indeed and yet people are snapping it up.

There are literally tens of pairs of ziess jenoptem's every day going for over £100 ! Who on earth would pay that much! Are they mad!

Jenoptems are OK, but even now you can get a pair in good condition FROM A DEALER for £50. And that's steep enough. My last pair was £30 in perfect nick also from a dealer. I sold then for £25 and felt a bit guilty about that. These are OLD bins which were never top of the range even in their day and really can't compete with decent bins today.

I have always liked Russian binoculars for their sharpness but people are buying Tento bins for upwards of £60. They are still made and sell new for less than half that!

The 20x60's are selling as if they were some thing special. They are not.

Also why, is every other russian bin sold as 'military'. they REALLY arn't! There are really only a couple of military bins made in Russia and I wouldnt buy them for any civilian use.

In short I beg anyone looking for binoculars not to throw money at ebay. I saw no bargains at all.

You can get passable new binoculars for any budget these days. It's just not worth being riped off.

I have owned a pair of East German Jenoptems for many years and orther than the fact that they are a bit heavy, I can`t fault the quality. and you can pick them up on Ebay for £50. not bad for a good bino which will out live your cheap celestrons and chinese bins by many years in my opinion!!

[Mr Q]

P T Barnham was not a bad guy - but his slogan, "A sucker born every minuet" holds true even to today. Perhaps E-Bay should use this slogan since it has no control over the sellers and buyers. Personally, I wouldn't touch anything on E-Bay with a 10 foot pole...especially one bought on E-Bay

[BinocularSky]

but his slogan, "A sucker born every minuet"

You sure it wasn't "...every bransle"?

Personally, I wouldn't touch anything on E-Bay with a 10 foot pole..

Oh, I don't know -- I've had some excellent 2nd hand -- sorry: "pre-loved" -- bargains off eBay and some reliably honest astro retailers also sell on eBay. For used stuff, it's like buying at any auction (or boot-sale, or gumtree, or...): caveat emptor and, remember the old adage that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

[part timer]

I think the main point is that for something like optics you really have to know what your looking at to make a sensible purchase on Ebay.

I have personally owned most of the popular types of second hand binoculars which come up.

There are exeptions to every rule of course but only experience will teach you that!

Some people will be very happy with Ebay bins but will not realise they could have got a far better pair of new bins for the same or less money.

Ebay traders who are known to the astro community do operate and give reasonable deals on ebay it's true but many pairs of useless junk bins are sold every day by other professional traders. You still have to reaserch in advance!

Older binoculars can have many problems not apparent from the pictures on ebay.

As someone else has said, many bins are labeled 'made in Japan' as a sign of quality. Most of them are either junk or lower quality than mny cheap modern binoculars.

Russian binoculars have generally got sharp optics but very poor light transmission, high scatter and a very strong yellow cast to them (I've had a LOT of russian bins!!). They are also strongly but poorly constructed with sloppy focussing and diopter adjustments.

Older german Binoculars have good optics and construction but are likeley to have internal dirt, grease and dust due to age and very likeley misalignment, again due to age.

And every semi decent brand has a flurry of cheap and not cheerful copies. Many people buy the wrong one thinking they have got a real bargain.

And for gods sake try to check if what your bidding on is still made and find out the new price first!!

[J_M_Franklin]

Does everyone here go shopping for bargains with their eyes shut, do they just go and see what is there without knowing if it is a bargain or a marketing ploy?? Of course not, eBay is no different, as many have said..DO YOUR HOMEWORK..

Those who state they would never buy from eBay are missing out. I used to buy and sell on eBay in a big way, and slowly i am getting back into it...although it is computer parts or things I have direct knowledge of and am able to support when it goes wrong.

eBay is changing, no longer is it simply the domain of second hand goods, many reputable retailers sell on eBay because it is cheaper than servicing their own webshop for the volume of goods they sell, also it is a way of selling off old stock, discontinued stock or stock that has been returned by a customer but is not faulty and thus is classed as refurbished.

It is just like a high street shop to be honest...A fool and their money is soon parted...that is true no matter where you buy.