Another failed night of observation

[SimpleMajority]

I have been trying to view Andromeda for weeks (almost as soon as I got the telescope) and always end up empty handed. I haven't found anything decent online about magnitudes and limiting magnitude (something written in plain english), but I know that Andromeda is 3.5. If I am understanding light pollution maps for my area, I can see up to 5.9-6.2 (depending on the day). Google Sky and The Night Sky (iOS) are hard to use in my area (we think there is iron in the ground).

Clouds just moved in the area and we have had a massive amount of rain recently, so I decided to call it a night and pull the scope inside to safety in case more rain is on the way.

Frustrated, I am... Any pointers and advice? or maybe a link to a site that explains magnitudes in a simple form.

[JamesF]

Limiting magnitude varies across the sky, so I'd not worry about that too much. Can you find Cassiopaeia, Andromeda and the square of Pegasus to start with? What scope are you using?

James

[SimpleMajority]

I have a Orion XT8. I can see the 4 stars at the base Andromeda (Almaak, Mirach, HIP 3092, Alpheratz) and I can see Cassiopaeia clearly.

Edited to add:

For a few minutes I saw a glowing blur, but we have extremely high humidity and it is possible that the lens was fogging up on me.

[Qualia]

Just a thought, would a Telrad map like this one make it a little easier to identify where you need to be aiming? http://www.solarius.net/assets/finder_charts/messier_31.pdf Other than that I have found Sky and Telescope's Star Atlas of essential help when hunting out given objects.

Good luck with your hunting and let us know how you do.

[rory]

andromeda galaxy is about a 4.4 magnitude object. i first found it easiest with a pair of binoculars,so a finder scope should show its core area fairly easily id have thought. low power is key in my experience.

[Double Kick Drum]

Andromeda is visible for a good few months each year, so first of all "don't panic" you'll get plenty of attempts at it.

I agree with Rory. It is best to find it with binoculars first, by sweeping the area.

That way you'll will get a better idea of that part of the sky before locating it with your scope. Perserverance and maps are the name of the game.

I think the magnitude 3.5 tag can be a little misleading. To the naked eye, I would say it looks like a mag 4.5 fuzzy star. If you can see the Milky Way, you should easily spot it without optical aid, so long as you know exactly where to look.

Practice makes perfect and I promise galaxies get easier to find as you discover more.

Happy hunting!

[JamesF]

I agree that it will appear somewhat fainter than the magnitude would suggest. However...

If you find your way to Mirach and then identify mu Andromedae, M31 is in the same direction as mu from Mirach, If you hold your hand out at arms length with your index finger running along the line between Almaak, Mirach and delta Andromedae and mu Andromedae under your hand, then M31 should be very close to the edge of your little finger (perhaps slightly under) on the line extended out from Mirach and mu. Use your lowest power eyepiece to start with. You don't need much power to find it. It will probably only be a fuzzy elongated blur, but if it doesn't move relative to the surrounding stars when you give the scope a very light tap just to jiggle the eyepiece, you've probably found the right thing.

As a bonus, if you go about the same distance the other side of Mirach in the opposite direction to M31, you should find M33, the Triangulum Galaxy.

James

[swamp thing]

Hi

Sounds to me like your sky VLM 5.9 - 6.2 is pretty good, and you should be abe to see the Andromeda galaxy with your unaided eye quite easily.

When hunting for extended objects like Galaxies we should not take so much notice of their magnitudes in general but their surface brightness.

Surface brightness

The brightness of an extended astronomical object, such as a planet, nebula, galaxy, or the sky background, expressed as magnitudes per unit area. Surface brightness is calculated by dividing the object's magnitude by its dimensions.

Although M31 magnitude is bright it's important to remember its huge and most of its light is concentrated in the central portion. The outer arms are extremely diffuse and soon disappear if any LP is around.

Good hunting

[Capricorn]

Trouble with Andromeda is that although the magnitude is "reasonable" the brightness is spread out over the area that Andromeda covers, as it is 6x bigger then the moon it is actually quite dim.

Since being told by someone at work I tend to use the steep V of Casseiopia as an arrow head that points to Andromeda - works pretty well for me anyway.

A scope will generally not get all of andromeda in view, unless the magnification is something like 30-35x.

Binoculars are better, but just a fuzzy patch, a small dim fuzzy patch. :grin:

[cantab]

I learnt to find it from Mirach, going Mu, Nu, and then M31's right next to it. On my first attempt I struggled though because I thought another star was Mirach. In general if I've looked for and haven't found an object that is comfortably bright enough to see, it's been because I've misidentified the starting point stars. It tends to take me quite a bit of back and forth between the star charts and the binoculars (on a tripod) to find things for the first time.

Considering that I've noticed a difference in ease of finding stuff just between my 10x50s and 15x70s due to the latter's lesser field of view (well, and its extra bulk), I wouldn't be surprised if it's quite a bit harder with a scope where the FOV is narrower still.

I've found fogged optics tend to make everything dimmer. Refractor/binocular objectives and reflector primaries and I think secondaries are not in focus, so dew or marking on one part of them affects the whole image not just a piece. Eye lenses are small so tend to be either all fogged or not fogged. So your glowing blur may well have been M31.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The glowing blur you describe sounds about right. You may well have spotted it