Jump to content

Banner.jpg.39bf5bb2e6bf87794d3e2a4b88f26f1b.jpg

Getting a little disheartened...........


Recommended Posts

I should ignore this Oily.

M13 is mag 5.8 there aren't many towns you'll see objects this faint from, and staring past a street light. Hmmm? :rolleyes:

I couldn't follow that. The impression I got was that the poster had identified M13 with the naked eye before using bins. I reckon you'd have to be out under and exceptionally dark sky with well-adapted night vision to stand much chance of seeing M13 with the naked eye. M44 and M31 can be naked-eye objects for me when the seeing is reasonable (with no lighting for miles), but I don't think I've ever seen M13 unaided.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oily, don't let it get you down mate, i spent 4 or 5 nights in a row searching for m81/m82 after reading many posts of how easy they were. started to think i wasn't suited to the hobby but when i found them it was the best feeing of acheivement you could imagine. sure they looked like a couple of smudges but they were a couple of smudges that I found. you'll find m13 and when you do you'll be too scared to look away incase it disappears. good luck mate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3. Not entirely convinced that I had found the keystone asterism. I now reckon that I was starting from random collection of four stars a bit further south.

I have certainly done that - the first time I went looking for M13 I spent two hours looking at the wrong four stars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have certainly done that - the first time I went looking for M13 I spent two hours looking at the wrong four stars.

That's all too easily done :) I found that after a while I got a bit of a feel for how bright the star I thought I ought to be looking at ought to be, but even so it's easy to make mistakes. If I'm not certain I'm in the right place I usually go looking for smaller patterns of stars in Stellarium that ought to be near where I think I'm looking. If they're in the eyepiece as well (remember to allow for whichever image inversion takes place with your scope) then you're good to go.

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say that it is useful to get used to the area using binoculars first. You can spot paturns of stars like triangles etc..

Then when you use the finder you will spot the same paturns and this can help...

I hope you get some clear skies!

Mark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Oily, I found M13 for the first time 2 nights ago. I tried many times to find it with the supplied straight through finder on my dob but no luck. I think you will find it a lot easier with a telrad or similar, I used my Rigel quikfinder and it was a breeze and wow what a site M13 is. I found the exact location using Skysafari on my phone to get me as close as possible, put in my 10mm ep moved the scope a little and it just appeared. I also found M57 and M92 using the same system, Skysafari or map, Rigel or Telrad then eyepiece. I find the straight through finder a hindrance really when looking up close to the zenith. Keep at it you will find it. Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers Pel,I'll get these printed out at work and laminated

1342171005[/url'>' post='1574099']

Oily I understand your confusion, once you start to look through the view finder your brain becomes confused with the many stars and the small field FOV and if you are able to observe at a reasonably dark site, even more stars appear. Just for interest, some while ago I bought a copy of " The cambridge Photographic star Atlas " not with the intention of using it as an atlas, but to see what the sky looks like digitally photographed from a very dark site. On one page you have the digitised image of the sky to scale and on the opposite page the same image is transposed to black and white upon which all interesting information is marked, such as Constellation boundaries major stars, Nebulae, Galaxies and all other important information, all 88 Constellations are shown, a large format book with the Photos to a scale of 1 cm to a degree, and stars shown down to about mag 14. Used in conjunction with a conventional Atlas, ( I have Uranometria 2000 ) I have found it quite remarkable how the brain recalls the many star asterisms in and around the areas you want to locate, then starting with a widefield eye piece, you should find yourself in familiar territory. When the weather is bad It is also very good for passing the time learning areas of the night sky you want to observe in the future, using a large 4" magnifying, glass in conjunction with the star atlas. For some reason I have used it quite a lot recently :D. but joking aside you can easily loose yourself in it for hours at an end, I consider it some £20 or so well spent :)

John.

I'll look into that John,cheers

Thanks James,I'll take your advice onboard

1342176202[/url'>' post='1574176']

Hi

Interpreting what you see through a finder and what you see with your naked eye is indeed tough at first.

Remember though, that the bright star you see with your eye will still be the brightest one in the finder field of view.

Have a warm up on a constellation with some bright stars like Ursa major. See if you can navigate your way around the dipper bowl just using the finder and pushing the Dob. Often it's a case of forgetting what the stars are doing through the finder view and simply pushing in the direction you wanna go. Check you position by eyeing along the finder when you think you've reached your targets.

Take it slowly if you feel you are going off coarse stop. Then restart from your last known point.

After Ursa major try Cassiopeia, slightly more challenging.but the stars are still bright.

Most finders have around a 5deg field so the stars of Cassiopeia are only just out of each fIeld of view each time, push your Dob the direction you wanna go, ignore the strange directions the finder shows you moving in. This is confusing but trust me you soon get used to it.

I struggled when I first went from a regular straight through finder to a RACI as I got so used to the strange orientation of the regular finder.

Once confident you can push from on star to another apply this to the keystone in Hercules. You'll find M13 in a few shakes like this

I'll give that a go Swamp thing,cheers

Check your PM's

I'll let it get me down after all this encouragement :)

Thanks for the tip :)

Aren't you a clever clogs

1342186324[/url'>' post='1574285']

Hi Oily! If you're talking about Wednesday night from Manchester, I was looking at the same bit of sky from the same location and was looking for the same thing with my 130p.

If it's any consolation, I didn't find it either - and I think that's for three reasons:

1. The background sky was particularly bright and there were some pretty fast-moving thin clouds around.

2. Because of the conditions I managed to convinced myself that I had no chance of seeing it even if I looked in the right place - and probably lost the battle right there

3. Not entirely convinced that I had found the keystone asterism. I now reckon that I was starting from random collection of four stars a bit further south.

Incidentally, I use the red spot finder to get me to a bright star and then do all my searching through the telescope eyepiece. It may seem a bit obvious, but when I'm using a star-chart to familiarise myself with any area I want to look at, I always do it with the chart upside-down. That way I know instinctively that in the telescope view to find M13, I will be starting with eta herculis, moving to a position a tad to the left of eta and going up towards zeta. (The scope is of course moving to the right and down)

So please don't be disheartened. I suggest that you view it as a challenge and get a bottle of something to put in the 'fridge for the day that you do find it - as indeed you will.

Whatever happens, M13 will still be waiting for you. Nobody can steal it - even in Manchester :p

Yes,it was Wednesday night.I don't have any star charts at the moment but will be downloading the telrad ones

I'm hoping to get down to Salford Astronomy Centre sometime so hoping to pick up some tips etc

Edited by swamp thing
FF edit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

oily, don't let it get you down mate, i spent 4 or 5 nights in a row searching for m81/m82 after reading many posts of how easy they were. started to think i wasn't suited to the hobby but when i found them it was the best feeing of acheivement you could imagine. sure they looked like a couple of smudges but they were a couple of smudges that I found. you'll find m13 and when you do you'll be too scared to look away incase it disappears. good luck mate

Cheers

Hi Oily, I found M13 for the first time 2 nights ago. I tried many times to find it with the supplied straight through finder on my dob but no luck. I think you will find it a lot easier with a telrad or similar, I used my Rigel quikfinder and it was a breeze and wow what a site M13 is. I found the exact location using Skysafari on my phone to get me as close as possible, put in my 10mm ep moved the scope a little and it just appeared. I also found M57 and M92 using the same system, Skysafari or map, Rigel or Telrad then eyepiece. I find the straight through finder a hindrance really when looking up close to the zenith. Keep at it you will find it. Good luck.

Thanks,I'm hoping the telrad will come up trumps

Just keep going Oily.

There's nothing like the satisfaction when you find your target and can say "I did that"

I'm hoping it'll be like the first time I saw Saturn :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But Saturn was easy - the joy is proportional to the effort. And trust me, there's always one that is harder to get (for certain)...

You will soon become addicted, always searching for the next one, always wondering if you will be next.

Then of course your partner brings you down to earth with a bump....

And your kids stress you out even more.....

So out you go again, looking, searching....

God I love it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will soon become addicted, always searching for the next one

This is embarrassingly true. My next session's observing plan usually gets written the morning after I've had a decent night with the scope. There's always something else...

James

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it much easier to search for objects if I'm comfortable. If you get an adjustable stool and a right angled finder it makes things so much calmer and easier and no bending at daft angles giving you back and neck strain. Best investment I ever made. You also can't beat having a session with a fellow stargazer or two around - adds a bit of fun into the equation. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it much easier to search for objects if I'm comfortable. If you get an adjustable stool and a right angled finder it makes things so much calmer and easier and no bending at daft angles giving you back and neck strain. Best investment I ever made. You also can't beat having a session with a fellow stargazer or two around - adds a bit of fun into the equation. :)

I use a adjustable kitchen stool at present but may look into buying one of those ironing stools.I'm going to try and get down to Salford Astronomy Society next Wednesday evening so hopefully I can meet some 'local' stargazers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it much easier to search for objects if I'm comfortable. If you get an adjustable stool and a right angled finder it makes things so much calmer and easier and no bending at daft angles giving you back and neck strain. Best investment I ever made. You also can't beat having a session with a fellow stargazer or two around - adds a bit of fun into the equation. :)

Quite right kim, I have just recently managed to negotiate with a farmer for permission to use his land, situated not many miles from where I live, It`s far enough away from light pollution for the Milky Way to be clearly visible, and as an added bonus the farmer has two areas of large concrete hard standing accessed by a hard vehicle track, these were once used for Sugar Beet storage, it has a 360° open vista to the horizon, I and one,or maybe two like minded astronomers are looking forward to using the site this coming Autumn, should be fun :).

John.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wishing you the best of luck as your post struck a chord with me. I was drawn into astronomy via a birthday pressie for my son last October so don't really know the Summer skies very well. The <ahem> weather has meant that I've not had much of a chance to get to know them either so when I have got out my search for things has been slightly disheartening and if it weren't for memories of clear, crisp Winter skies I might have been put off. But still, I persevered...

...M13 has been a bête noire to me too. A couple of nights ago (Wednesday I think) I had the first clear Summer night with decent seeing and, went in search of it. I started looking for Hercules' 'left shoulder' as the three brightest stars are relatively easy to recognise and then moved the scope across to his right shoulder and then started scanning slowly down. At sight of very a slight smudge I had a look through my 32mm and saw a definite smudge, trying out 25mm and 10mm and averted vision I began seeing the 'diamond dusting' and was a very happy chap. Despite being the best I'd had for months the seeing wasn't that great so I could only see this with averted vision but it was a sight worth waiting for - you will be so chuffed when you find it.

...and just to chance my arm that night I thought I'd try for another target that had eluded me thus far: M57. Well, my luck was in and I found it. It was absolutely mind-blowing, amazing stuff and, again, I'm so glad I stuck at it and found the blighter :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a lot of people have trouble with this one as they don't find the 'right' keystone. Quite close by there is a kind of square-ish group of stars. Once you get the 'correct' keystone the glob should only take a minute or two to nail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only seen m13 the once and it was by accident. I was using my 200p eq5 with a Hyperion 31mm eyepiece, slowly scanning round. And I do mean slowly I just saw a faint grey blob.

I don't have hardly any light pollution here and it was pretty hard to see.

I quickly switched on the tracking and connected my 1100d for a quick 30 second shot. After that I haven't found it even once.

Here's the picture, sorry it's not very bright but it was my first faint fuzzy photo.

c414192f.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wishing you the best of luck as your post struck a chord with me. I was drawn into astronomy via a birthday pressie for my son last October so don't really know the Summer skies very well. The <ahem> weather has meant that I've not had much of a chance to get to know them either so when I have got out my search for things has been slightly disheartening and if it weren't for memories of clear, crisp Winter skies I might have been put off. But still, I persevered...

...M13 has been a bête noire to me too. A couple of nights ago (Wednesday I think) I had the first clear Summer night with decent seeing and, went in search of it. I started looking for Hercules' 'left shoulder' as the three brightest stars are relatively easy to recognise and then moved the scope across to his right shoulder and then started scanning slowly down. At sight of very a slight smudge I had a look through my 32mm and saw a definite smudge, trying out 25mm and 10mm and averted vision I began seeing the 'diamond dusting' and was a very happy chap. Despite being the best I'd had for months the seeing wasn't that great so I could only see this with averted vision but it was a sight worth waiting for - you will be so chuffed when you find it.

...and just to chance my arm that night I thought I'd try for another target that had eluded me thus far: M57. Well, my luck was in and I found it. It was absolutely mind-blowing, amazing stuff and, again, I'm so glad I stuck at it and found the blighter :-)

Thanks,I'm hoping tonight will be the night.My Telrad arrived yesterday which is now fitted so here's fingers crossed!

I think a lot of people have trouble with this one as they don't find the 'right' keystone. Quite close by there is a kind of square-ish group of stars. Once you get the 'correct' keystone the glob should only take a minute or two to nail.

I'll bear this in mind,cheers

I've only seen m13 the once and it was by accident. I was using my 200p eq5 with a Hyperion 31mm eyepiece, slowly scanning round. And I do mean slowly I just saw a faint grey blob.

I don't have hardly any light pollution here and it was pretty hard to see.

I quickly switched on the tracking and connected my 1100d for a quick 30 second shot. After that I haven't found it even once.

Maybe the LP here is affecting my seeing M13?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'll be alright, Oily. I checked it out the other night with you in mind, just to make sure it was possible this summer week. If you've the 9x50mm viewfinder on your Skyliner just centre her on Eta Herculis (η Her), move south a wee bit and you should be able to see a soft cloud, that'll be your M 13.

Good luck and clear skies to you :icon_salut:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

M13 finally!

Well tonight was the night.Got the telrad just about in the right place using the maps and hey presto,their it was off to one centre in the Seben zoom in all it's glory!Started off as a 'fuzzy' then zoomed in to get individual stars.The viewing conditions weren't great either,really thin haze and the cloud kept rolling in too which limited the viewing experience but overall I'm well chuffed.

Other things I saw was a shooting star and then a sat,as it passed overhead it shone really brightly then went to a dot of light which i'd never seen before!

I don't think I would have found M13 if it wasn't for the telrad,well worth the expense although i'm not overally impressed the dew shield +

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.