Brand New - Which Telescope?

[3Nobby]

Hi There,

I am 46 and never looked thru a telescope.

That said it is something I have long fancied doing and must have reached that age lol

I have no clue what kit I should buy and would appreciate any help.

I would be happy to spend around £3-400 as I do believe you get what you pay for and don't want to have to upgrade in a few months. I would rather struggle a bit starting at itermediate level if that makes sense?

I fancy the idea of a computerised one as I am quite into my gadgets etc. and assume it would be a good help if it helped you find things you wanted to look at?

I did see a write up on an Explorer -130p supatraktm auto which seemed to read OK but as I said as far as I know it could not be the right thing for me.

I do want something quite versatile. I plan to use it in my garden or maybe take it somewhere in the car.

Thanks for reading and if you need anymore info on how best advise me please ask.

Thanks

Nigel

[damnut]

HI Nigel,

You have just opened a Pandora's box!..Before spending hard earned cash I would advise getting a pair of bino's and a copy of 'turn left at orion' to familiarise youself with the sky and how to find objects without goto!. Get yourself along to your nearest astro group and have a look through their kit, most folk are delighted to help you formulate yor own choice.

You will then have a better understanding about what you want to observe and all the differences between the scopes. The goto element eats into your budget. Bang for buck the best option is a dob and you will get a substantial dob for your budget. Dobs are relatively easy to transport also.

Good Luck with your choice!!.

Cheers

[umadog]

Welcome!

The good news is that you don't need to spend anywhere near that much to get started. In fact, you shouldn't do so. The reason is that you don't know exactly what will spark your fancy until you've been at it a little while. So start with something reasonably price then see where/if you want to spend the buck bucks. Many of us have more than one telescope and we use them. There is no one perfect telescope: the laws of physics dictate this. So don't go into this feeling that you have to buy the ideal scope. Your first scope should be something that you will use often.

A very standard recomendation here is to buy a 8" Dobsonian. You will see a lot with such an instrument. If you want to go a little larger then a 10" would also work well. Maybe even a 12". The 12" is rather large, though. Not huge by any means but big enough that it might put you off setting up on some nights.

The scopes you see for sale in the stores are all mass-produced in China. Plenty of them have very good optics indeed but it's rather a lottery if you'll get a a great mirror or a mediocre one. Also, the mirrors from those scopes are on the thick side (which means they take longer to cool at night, I won't go into why that matters right now but it does). These scopes often have bearings that need to be upgraded to get the motions smooth. If you have the money to spend then you could take a look at Orion Optics UK: http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/OMC/omcrange.html Phone them and tell them you're interested in an 8" or 10" Dobsonian and they will discuss options with you. They make their own mirrors which are thinner than the mass produced ones and more likely to be top quality. You'll spend more money this way but you'll end up with a nice scope. A good 8" or 10" Dobsonian is a scope you will want to keep.

Finally, you need to calibrate your expectations. Even through a HUGE telescope you will see deep space objects (galaxies and so forth) in grey-scale. No colour. Details in many objects require patience to see and usually are only visible in dark skies away from city lights. There will be details visible on Jupiter and Saturn but they don't jump out at you. You have to look patiently to tease them out. You won't see stuff that look like a photograph.

[Hobbes]

I'm with Damian

1. Bino's + Turn Left at Orion + Stellarium

2. Local Astro Society fro advice and try before you buy.

3. Take your time deciding - the stars aren't going anywhere.

4. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade....!

[umadog]

Yes! Defintely check out the local society. You'll learn a lot more this way and do it a lot faster. You can go out and start learning the night sky even without binoculars.

[todd8137]

Hi ,go for a reflector on a dob base ,200p its a great scope and with in your budget..

now i would echo the above points best thing is a local club ,there will be every type of scope at there meets and you will see what you get,

Pat

[JonnyP]

For the impatient, attending a local AS may be a problem as some break for the summer - mine doesn't do anything between May and October.

Likewise binoculars - they give a perfectly pleasant view, but when someone wants to look at galaxies, nebulae, Jupiter's moons, etc, a nice view of Pleiades may not do.

I bought a small cheap scope this time last year. Almost exactly the most unsuitable time of year. I then proceeded to read as much as I could, learn how to use the EQ mount, what the different EPs did and learn the sky at the same time. I didn't see a huge amount out of the scope (M13, Jupiter, some of the DSOs in Cassiopeia) but it made me realise that I wanted to spend more money, get a better scope and carry on. I have a feeling that I wouldn't have felt the same had I been using binoculars. During the last year I've spent a lot of time getting frustrated for all sorts of reasons but every mistake helps me to learn. If I hadn't bought a scope I would not have had a focus for my reading - learning about focal lengths, or different size EPs for instance.

I'd suggest that telescopes are so cheap that it makes no sense to advise that someone doesn't buy a scope - especially when a half decent set of binoculars cost almost the same as a decent scope. And handheld binocs are pointless in my opinion.

3Nobby, I can't advise you which telescope to buy, as I haven't used enough. I am very happy with my 200mm dob, but of course it depends on how far you need to move it, how much space you have for storage etc, because it is a fairly large lump. The astronomy mags have reasonably good review sections - on the websites as well - and of course if you read through the posts on here asking for advice you'll soon get an idea of which telescopes may suit you.

[3Nobby]

Thanks all for your feedback.

I'm going to buy turn left at Orion and some Binos I think. I am off to Menorca in 3 weeks and last time I was there the stars were awesome and where we stay has an open roof terrace so I'll have a go and see what I can see.

I have a really good app on my iphone 4 called pUniverse which helps so much. I haven't seen stellarium but am guessing it is similar?

Any advice on some good Bino's for a begginer please?.

[umadog]

Binos... If you hand-holding then don't buy any that are too large or magnify too much. YMMV, but somewhere in the 8x40 or 10x50 range is probably about as high as you want to go.

Edit:

Yes, Stellarium is similar. I don't like the iPhone version very much, though, the desktop version works a lot better. Another very nice iPhone App is Sky Safari. It comes in three different price brackets. One thing I like about it is that many of the objects have an information with a photo and details about the object.

[JamesM]

In addition to astronomical societies don't forget to see if you can find any local observing groups. I say that because getting your in on some 'real' kit is the way to go for you to understand what all the figures and specifications really mean. There's no rush as the stars aren't going anywhere and if you drop me a private message (little envelope top write of your screen) I can tell you what's going on in your area as I'm part of the Bath Observing Group.

James

[jerryTheC]

Probably the best advice on the binoculars is to visit a shop and look through several different ones. Porro prism designs are usually cheaper and have a wider field of view than roof prism ones, and bak4 prisms usually transmit more light than bk7 ones.

I went for some bushnell 8x42 wa Porro prism binoculars - they have a birding series logo, and I think they're probably the nature view ones - don't have the box handy - that I got originally for bird watching. They do quite well for astronomy too. There are probably better models around if you have the money, but these were the ones I liked best after trying several others in the same price range. There are so many models around with similar specs that it's best to try them out yourself, and see which ones you prefer - there really isn't a good way to check how the handling and view will suit you without trying them out yourself.

For a good introductory astronomy book with an overview of the sort of kit available, have a look at _the backyard astronomer's guide_ by Terence Dickinson and Alan dyer. (I have a 3rd edition copy). It's more of an introduction to what you can do and how to set things up, rather than how to find particular objects - well worth reading before deciding what to buy.

[M4lcs67]

I am going to sound a little predictable, but the Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT is a very good scope and on budget for you. It has goto as well. I have owned mine for a little over a year and it is great. Also nice and compact and easy to transport, set-up, dismantle. In the event you went for this I would recommend a Powertank to drive it though otherwise you will spend a fortune on normal batteries.

[jabberwocky]

My advice would be to not rush into buying a scope, I did and bought the wrong one which just frustrated me.

As others have said a dobsonian is probably the way to go, you get more aperture for your money and the mounts are a breeze to use, whereas eq mounts are a bit awkward for visual use.

Like you I initially thought goto was the way to go but fortunately I couldn't afford one and I'm glad I couldn't, finding the objects is half the fun, having now used a goto scope I have to say I found it a bit of a let down, all a bit too easy.

Other advice would be to buy from a dedicated telescope shop not from Argos or amazon, I didn't see where you are from but there are a few shops here and there, go and see some scopes I the flesh, they can be bigger than you think.

The best scope to have is the one you use regularly, go too big and you will get fed up of lugging it outside all the time.

[Donkeiller]

Nigel, an 8" Dob might be fine if you don't live in a town and have dark skies. This time of year is not great at the best of times.

I started about 18 months agio and I can assure you that I would have trashed a Dob/topped myself if I had to find objects manually.

Maic is right. Get yourself a Mak with Goto- you will not be disappointed.

The 127 is big enough to show you enough to keep you busy.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I was going to suggest a Celestron 4SE. Its within budget and it will (with a bit of input) take you places you didnt know existed.

Could be a good idea. Not the biggest aperture in the world but certainly nothing to scoff at.

Very portable. You will need to buy a power supply for it. These are readily available in stores like Maplins for very lost cost.

Just thinking...................a Celestron 127SLT is a 5" scope with Go-To. That would make more sense then the 4SE.

http://www.firstligh...ar-127-slt.html

[shiplu]

I am not expert. But I can tell you your first telescope will disappoint you. Its true. When an amature buys a telescope he thinks he will see every object in the sky very close. But when they look through the scope he does not see anything extra. To understand the difference between the sky through eyepiece and without it, you need to understand some basics.

I'd suggest you to buy a astronomy grade binocular. Then start watching the sky and start learning the names of starts etc. Then go for a cheap dobsonian. 8" dobsonian is very good for starting. After using this 8" for enough time, you can decide your next upgrade. it can be 16" dob or 8" Refrector or whatever you wish.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I am not expert. But I can tell you your first telescope will disappoint you. Its true. When an amature buys a telescope he thinks he will see every object in the sky very close. But when they look through the scope he does not see anything extra. To understand the difference between the sky through eyepiece and without it, you need to understand some basics.

I'd suggest you to buy a astronomy grade binocular. Then start watching the sky and start learning the names of starts etc. Then go for a cheap dobsonian. 8" dobsonian is very good for starting. After using this 8" for enough time, you can decide your next upgrade. it can be 16" dob or 8" Refrector or whatever you wish.

WOW.............thats a bit of negative opinion.

If you do your homework and ask the questions and do your research, your first scope may very well be the only scope you ever buy.

I agree, owning a set of bins and a good book is a great way to start, but its not the be all and end all.

P.S.~~~my first scope was a 90mm refractor on an EQ mount. I thought it was PERFECT for me at the time but turned out to be the biggest waste of money. Too big and heavy and bulky.

[boabsta]

My 1st scope was a celestron 76mm a freind loaned me and it was great. I could see 4 moons around jupiter and that was me hooked.

[shiplu]

WOW.............thats a bit of negative opinion.

If you do your homework and ask the questions and do your research, your first scope may very well be the only scope you ever buy.

I agree, owning a set of bins and a good book is a great way to start, but its not the be all and end all.

I know its a bit negetive. But it happens. I see many of my friends bought 10" dob, 12" dob, 4" Refrector, 6" Refrector and they are quite disappointed. According to them "there is nothing to watch besides 2-3 planets and the moon". Then I had to explain about city lights, visibility etc.

So if someone buys a 10" dob and expects to see the ring of Uranus in City light on the first night he will be very very disappointed.

[JonnyP]

Nigel, an 8" Dob might be fine if you don't live in a town and have dark skies. This time of year is not great at the best of times.

I started about 18 months agio and I can assure you that I would have trashed a Dob/topped myself if I had to find objects manually.

Maic is right. Get yourself a Mak with Goto- you will not be disappointed.

The 127 is big enough to show you enough to keep you busy.

I'd disagree with this simply because I've got an 8" dob and live about a mile from a reasonably large city centre.

Having said that, I haven't got many street lights close to me on the east but looking south early in the evening is sometimes pointless because of LP. It tends to get better later on as lights are turned off.

I've still managed to observe over 30 Messiers since I got the dob last October.....

[JonnyP]

I know its a bit negetive. But it happens. I see many of my friends bought 10" dob, 12" dob, 4" Refrector, 6" Refrector and they are quite disappointed. According to them "there is nothing to watch besides 2-3 planets and the moon". Then I had to explain about city lights, visibility etc.

So if someone buys a 10" dob and expects to see the ring of Uranus in City light on the first night he will be very very disappointed.

That suggests that your friends have taken up the wrong hobby rather than bought the wrong 'scope?

[Donkeiller]

I'd disagree with this simply because I've got an 8" dob and live about a mile from a reasonably large city centre.

Having said that, I haven't got many street lights close to me on the east but looking south early in the evening is sometimes pointless because of LP. It tends to get better later on as lights are turned off.

I've still managed to observe over 30 Messiers since I got the dob last October.....

Well I take my hat off to you Sir!

I have a sodium light within 2 yards of my garden fence- and many more close by.

The sky is usually milky white or orange.

Star-hopping is a mug's game for me.

Goto an absolute necessity.

[CFC]

Yes, all depends on your individual observing situation. Bath is pretty light polluted, you might want to consider a GOTO. Although it doesn't give you the best bang for the buck, it will find things you cannot find yourself because you can't find enough stars by eye to 'star-hop',

It's funny how sometimes it seems nearly everyone and their dog will recommend 'binos and a copy of turn left at orion' rather than a telescope, regardless of the location of the enquirer. Do you really think that's the best way to go if you live in a city (or are impatient!).

Not to mention, nasty shaky binos, unable to make any features out on the moon for example due to handshake - solution: buy a tripod, but not a cheap tripod...by the time you've done all this you might as well have bought a telescope. But actually, by the time you've looked through binos...you think, nah, I won't bother buying a telescope, you can't see anything (judging by the experience with the shakey binos!)

I'm not a bino hater, I do own multiple pairs of binos, they have their use for bird spotting or a quick gaze...but they are very far from ideal.

*Gets off soapbox*

[umadog]

I am not expert. But I can tell you your first telescope will disappoint you. Its true. When an amature buys a telescope he thinks he will see every object in the sky very close. But when they look through the scope he does not see anything extra.

I can see why you say this but I gently disagree. I do a lot of outreach and provide plenty of people their first views through a telescope. The majority are quite in awe at what they have seen, often they say they're never going to forget it and they seem quite sincere. And these, remember, are members of the public who have done little or no research prior to the event. Most people who are serious about purchasing a telescope ought to have a better idea.

Then go for a cheap dobsonian. 8" dobsonian is very good for starting. After using this 8" for enough time, you can decide your next upgrade. it can be 16" dob or 8" Refrector or whatever you wish.

An 8" Dobsonian is not only a great starting point but a very viable lifetime scope. It's more than just a "cheap" initial solution since it will do things a much larger scope cannot. I'm not sure it's realistic advice to even suggest an 8" refractor as an upgrade option. The things cost $150,000 and need to be observatory housed.

[Andymarrison]

I think that there comes a time in one's life when it just has to be a scope - binos just don't seem to meet this basic, even if maybe irrational, need for a lovely new gadget! There are some great and very affordable scopes out there so to me it makes sense to get in there and start to learn what working with a scope is all about, along with all it's limitations and, yes, sometimes disappointments.