It's life Jim, but not as we know it ...

[Hipolito]

One of the other threads I started brought up the topic of possible UFOs. Now, I would have guessed that astronomers, be they amateur of professional, would have a better idea of the make up of the universe and its vastness, certainly moreso than the average person anyhow.

With this in mind, what do you think the likelyhood is of the Earth being the only place in the universe that has life? What are the chances that Humans are in fact the more sophisticated beings in existence? And if we are not alone, considering the retrictions of space travel, what are the chances some of these sightings and experiences are legitimate?

I bet this sounds well geeky. Maybe I should phone home

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

I beleive that the chances that there are no more planets with life out there are close to zero. We know that life exists on some planets (like here for example) and that many stars have planets. There are many many stars in our galaxy, like loads and loads of them. Then we know that there are gazillions of galaxies out there, each with as many (ish) stars as our own galaxy. Then there's the stuff thats so far away that we can't see it on top of that. So many billions of planets and we have the only inhabited one? I think not.

Kaptain klevtsov

[Albireo380]

Agreed KK - we only know of life on one planet, but no reason to think our planet is a "one off" out of the many planets out there.

Interestingly, I suspect that most astronomers don't think that UFOs are aliens buzzing us - unless aliens only buzz guys in the mid-west USA who have had a few beers too many Still, I guess that is possible.

Tom

[Cloudwatcher]

Likelyhood of alien life N=R x fp x ne x fj x fc x L

Likelyhood of legitmate alien UFO sightings,probable depends on the answer to the Drake equation quoted above.

Sorry, can't remember the variables but I'm sure someone in the Forum will and be able to to let you know the probability percentage wise.

CW

[beamish]

Oooh, I like this.

For years 'n' years I thought that there can simply be absolutely no chance of this planet being the ONLY life inhabited planet in the Universe (or multiverses), as described so many planets,so many stars,so many systems,galaxies.......the universe just HAD to be teeming with all sorts of life,some basic some intelligent and advanced in it's civilisations ,others perhaps at a similar fragile position like ourselves.

Then I read a very enlightening piece about how even if the universe is teeming with life everywhere, because of the vast distances involved and the likelihood of never ever getting close to light-speed (simply put the laws of physics will not allow it) let alone sci-fi type warp speed being achieved by any civilisation let alone the human race, mean that we can travel at high velocities perhaps for tens of thousands of years and barely scratch the surface re exploring the universe.As for other civilisations, traveling for eons at these velocities and still never meeting any!

I found it quite disappointing really, it reminded me of Arthur C Clarke's message in "2010- a Space Odessy"

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS

We are to all intents and purposes alone in the universe- we need to perhaps stop and recognise the sobriety of such a revelation, that we are the most advanced civilisation that we ever going to come across. That's quite a responsibility, especially when thinking about the lower life-forms we will undoubtedly come across in our travels even in the Solar system, perhaps on Europa beneath the ice.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/solarsystem/jupiter/europa.shtml

Ta ! Karlo

[Kenny_10_Bellys]

I think there cant be many astronomers out there who believe we're the only life around when they spend their time looking out into the vastness of the universe and the incredible numbers of galaxies and star systems. I have no problem with believing there's a multitude of life forms out there, the maths pretty much says there has to be.

UFOs on the other hand, I think belief in them depends on how iron-clad you believe the light speed limitation rule is. Assuming the speed of light really cant be circumvented then the chances of meeting someone is vanishingly remote. However, given the ingenuity of humanity and enough time I think most people think that one day in the future we will have some form of FTL travel. If so, then there is a chance of someone meeting us at some point, and therefore a chance that a UFO might well be a reality. Highly unlikely, but possible.

[lunator]

I think you have to split the question.

I hope that there is life out there and I would be amazed if there wasn't.

Intelligent life would probably be much rarer as if nature is red in tooth & claw as here on earth then the the guys at the top of the food chain may not be the brightest but still be very effective in what they do.

The chances of us meeting another race are pretty slim although if an intelligent race is listening we are making plenty of noise, and I'd love a trip in a spacecraft

I read a very interesting sci-fi story years ago and the basic premise was that if humans meet another race more advanced than us then individuals would 'fall in love/worship them or hate them with irrational hate' given human nature this view is probably has some validity and maybe we are better off not knowning.

Cheers

ian

[beamish]

I read a very interesting sci-fi story years ago and the basic premise was that if humans meet another race more advanced than us then individuals would 'fall in love/worship them or hate them with irrational hate' given human nature this view is probably has some validity and maybe we are better off not knowning.

Cheers

ian

Agreed. Safer for all concerned that we (human race) don't meet any other E.T. life-forms/civilisations. We still have a vast amount of evolving to do. One might conjecture that if/when we meet other ET's we ourselves would be quite alien and unrecognisable to the humans of now.

As for UFO sightings in mainly mid-west USA.......TOSH !!!

Karlo

[barkis]

I think we should just agree to say, that if there is life on other worlds, that would be incredible. If not, that would be incredible too.

It is all we can do. It's pointless to say anything other than that. The science fiction writers, and some of them did a great job of capturing my imagination, have provided a lot of the fuel for this kind of debate to have no end. But, fiction is just that, a dream that has no substance in the final analyses. The only certainty, is that when our star dies, and the bodies that are left drift aimlessly through the void, there will be nothing to suggest we ever existed at all. Maybe that scenario has already taken place in some far off galaxy.

But, we will never know.

Not very exciting is it?

[Kenny_10_Bellys]

Given the perverse ingenuity of man i think it likely we'll make a bid for the stars sometime in the future, assuming we dont end up in another religion fueled dark-age or wiped out by a meteor or our own stupidity. Life overcomes pretty much every barrier in its way, and I know I'm not the only person who believes the light speed barrier can be either broken or circumvented by an ingenious enough method. Many times in the past we've heard of limits and theoretical barriers, only to have them proved wrong or altogether avoided by some brilliant mind. Even without it we may make the bid, using DNA replication, sleeper ships or colony ships. It's a step we absolutely must make if the human race is to assure its survival in any form, and the sooner the better.

Having said that, if someone somewhere already has invented warp capable ships the chances aren't great that they'd find us anyway. Also, if they have found us, why are the restricting themselves to appearing in front of handfuls of Hill-Billy types and the odd [removed word] probe? Is that what we would do in their position?

[SteelRat]

The chances that other life exists out there are quite near to zero. But with space being so 'really quite awfully big' that ain't no bad thing Space is so hoooooge it makes 'quite near to zero' seem pretty good. At least that way we n the rest of em'll have lots o room to share. There's just gotta be some other mould sniffin around on some rock out there somewhere at least you'd hope eh? I mean I ain't had a packet o fruit pastels without a red one in among em fer... oh, I dunno... a few years? The one from that packet is probly under the ice at europa - we'd find out but someone used the budget f'that mission on summin else

UFO's? There are lots and LOTS o really REALLY REALLY rubbish UFO film clips around n a few pretty good lookin ones too. I have my doubts though that anything with the technology to come here from across the gulf would allow themselves be seen. Unless their culture (or biological make-up, or even technology for that matter) were driven by sense of humour or unfortunately aflicted by s0d's law. Please... no-one mention the pyramids! Heheheheh

Sorry bout any bad grammar or spellin

[Cloudwatcher]

Wat bad grammer/spellin?

More importantly I've just noticed there's no phone :shock: THE phone! That instument of desire! WHAT 'AV YOU DONE .

This is some trick. Your not the real SR!!

Leave the Forum NOW! (thinks..no,wait a min if this guy joins now the member numbers will be just about right for my comp' entry to win!) OR join and be welcome!

A worried CW

[Kenny_10_Bellys]

Fake UFO pictures you say?

Giant UFO filled with lizards over London!

Secrets of the US Area 51 revealed!

Took me about 10 minutes to make those, video takes a bit longer. I trawled the net to check out some UFO picture sites and was shocked to find that the spark has gone out of the old UFO community. A load of the UFO investigation sites are closed with banners saying they died out through lack of use and indifference, the golden years of the 70's and 80's have gone and people cant be bothered any more. I dont know if it's because we all believe in spacecraft now, or if we just dont care any more. The few that remain are now combined UFO-cropcircle-bigfoot-psychics incorporated.

A quick search for UFO photo sites turned up more, but unfortunately quantity hasn't replaced quality. All the sites contain fakes so obvious that 6 year olds can spot the joins, I think maybe photoshop killed off the 'real' UFO investigators. The rest are pictures where people have snapped a shot and only later discovered a UFO in it, but unfortunately they are invariably birds snapped in flight or reflections of interior lights in windows. Nothing convincing so far, but we cant rule out the posibility entirely.

[Vega]

I agree that the sheer number of exoplanets that could exist mean there should be millions of planets out there in the 'habitable zone' where life giving water can exist. So far I believe we have found one in this zone but our ability to find them is in it's infancy at the moment.... exciting times in the next 5-10 years!

However I also accept that we have not yet found one planet apart from Earth that undoubtedly contains even perimative life (un-disputed by the majority of scientists... sorry Mars!). So until that day comes, we are still officially 'alone/unique in the universe' I'm afraid.

As for the explosion of UFO sightings at the time.... funny how it clashed with the cold war and times when there was a rush to build more craft. Anyone know when the stealth bomber & fighter craft were being designed? It sure wasn't the 90's! And now ? we get hardly any significant sightings in a time when viriually every person, street and building has a camera!

Vega

[Hipolito]

Fake UFO pictures you say?

Giant UFO filled with lizards over London!

Secrets of the US Area 51 revealed!

Ahhh - now I'm convinced! :shock:

[Kenny_10_Bellys]

As for the explosion of UFO sightings at the time.... funny how it clashed with the cold war and times when there was a rush to build more craft. Anyone know when the stealth bomber & fighter craft were being designed? It sure wasn't the 90's!

Quite correct, the stealth fighter was designed in the late 70's based on groundbreaking Russian theoretical work on radar return equations which allowed designers to make basic computer models and test designs. While it was being built and flight tested during the late 70's and early 80's we started to hear more and more triangular UFO reports, replacing the classic 50's saucer shapes. It was when the US government officially revealed it (after enthusiasts got a couple of semi-decent photos) that the UFO 'flap' was finally explained. The B2 stealth bomber was designed and built more than a decade later and so used much more sophisticated computer modelling and design, hance it's much more complex shape. Indeed most aircraft take so long to design, test and develop that they're based on 10 year old tech before they even enter service. Indeed the F117 Stealth is so old it's now officially retired!

[beamish]

that was a strange looking humanoid in the frame at Area 51 ARGH !!!

[Kenny_10_Bellys]

My friend stayed near Area 51, he worked as a dealer in the Hilton in Reno. He sent us photos when we called him on it, and he used to love how the weirdos used to camp out in the desert and came back with stories of lights flying around and weird noises. What did they expect to hear and see next to the premier flight test range for experimental aircraft? Folk music? Jungle animals? Next to a sercet airport I'd expect to hear engine noises and see lights in the sky too. WooooOO000OOOO00o0o0oooo!

[Vega]

So true Kenny. I know we all want to dicover life out there, but we have to be sensible/logical when searching.

Vega

[Cloudwatcher]

Something in excess of 240 exoplanets have been found to date. This is a very large number having regard to the small volume of space so far subjected to examination by instruments, not all of which, are design orientated for that specific task. None of the planets on the list are what we would think of as 'earth like' and as I recall there is only one where there is the faint possibility of liquid water being present.

However, the phrase 'life as we know it ' is relevent in the context of these discoveries. It beggars the question of 'life as we don't know it'. Could this Universe,( or any of the others,if you subscribe to that theory) infact be teeming with life, which we, from our narrow perspective fail to recognise as such.

COROT,next generation satellites and ground based instruments will continue the search and the Bookmakers odds will continue to fall.

Place your bets gentlemen and your grandchildren may reap the reward!

CW

[Hipolito]

Some useful info on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stars_with_confirmed_extrasolar_planets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_c

[Cloudwatcher]

Some useful info on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stars_with_confirmed_extrasolar_planets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_c

Nice link.Thanks.

See the total continues to rise.......including a 'freefloater'......not the Death Star is it......and not headed our way I hope!

Cheers CW

[AstroTiger]

to be honest, and i make the same statement to you guys as i make to everyone else to asks

I do not think the question should be "Is there life in the universe, other than us"? it should be "where is it"?

[mpeniak]

I beleive that the chances that there are no more planets with life out there are close to zero. We know that life exists on some planets (like here for example) and that many stars have planets. There are many many stars in our galaxy, like loads and loads of them. Then we know that there are gazillions of galaxies out there, each with as many (ish) stars as our own galaxy. Then there's the stuff thats so far away that we can't see it on top of that. So many billions of planets and we have the only inhabited one? I think not.

Kaptain klevtsov

Thats's the way I am looking at it KK!

Martin

[iantobach]

I think it would be pretty naive of mankind to say we are the only ones in the universe, adn agree with all the statements above. I was pretty much sceptical of the whole UFO thing until my fishing buddy told me an odd story of seeing a floating light ball type thingy one night- that couldn`t explain- no vodka involved but he`s epileptic- and i feel that could explain it??? but-weird stuff happens to normal people- but i doubt it`s extraterrestial(interdimensional???)- but I can`t see the point of intelligent life forms abducting mid west yokels and probing them. I have a sneaky suspicion that alot of the current ufo`s are of a more down to earth top secret, have bombs on type, and as for the other things a natural occurence/mistaken identity.

:alien:Now let us get on with taking over your earth. earthlings.