Universe

[badgerchap]

See what I mean Ronnie? It all ends up being a bit speculatory - I reckon it's gonna take a lot more investigation to conclusively work out whether or not WH's exists, and if they do, what they really are. It'scertainly an interesting mental excercise though, but frankly it gets a bit mind bending for me and I;m forced to stick with the easier bits of physics!

[Ronnie67]

I do know what you mean, I have read a few faeces in relation to BH and WH and can be a bit mind boggling at times as not many know very much about them, only how they are created, there is much about BH's and very little about WH's, the biggest BH is roughly millions to billions times our own suns mass, what do you think of that, phew!!, thats one hole I do not want to step into ah,ah

[badgerchap]

I do love the way that Galactic core SMBH's have got so much press - it wasn't that long ago when they were just a suggestion! Same with all black holes really, but it's amazing how rapidly SMBH's have gone from hypothesis to leading theory!

[Ronnie67]

Yeh, on 5th December 2011 astronomers discovered the Largest SMBH to be that of NGC 4889 at 21 billion solar mass, now that's impressive

[badgerchap]

I know, what a behemoth. I'm sure it'll get trumped though! One thing I've been hearing over the last couple of years is the chicken and egg debate about SMBH's and galaxies, i.e. which came first. Controversially it seems to be that opinion is weighted towards SMBH's being the progenitors, with stars and galaxies coming later. I haven't understood the theory of their formation yet, again it's still largely conjecture, but it's a cool idea!

[Ronnie67]

I read once, many years ago, that the universe which was created from the big bag, was actually a super gigantic black hole, which became destabilized within its core and exploded with such a force it rocked the heavens and spewed out all the ingredients which created the universe. I know is sounds daft, but who knows it might be true in a way, science within itself does not hold the answer or the key as to why or how, the universe actually appeared, I wonder if I read it in the Bino ah,ah

You just cannot imagine the sheer size of the blast, to create such an infinite amount of galaxies

[badgerchap]

That's the best thing about Cosmology - nobody knows how it got started, so we are free to toy with all kinds of ideas! I always liked the idea of an ever cycling universe, going from big bang to big crunch and back again, repeatedly for eternity. Would just raise a bigger question though - how did the cycle get going??!

[Ronnie67]

There is also the theory about, their being more than one galaxy and that black holes are actually worm holes to alternative universes, now that would be an eye opener

[Ronnie67]

Ooopps not more than one galaxy, but more than one universe

[Naemeth]

That's the best thing about Cosmology - nobody knows how it got started, so we are free to toy with all kinds of ideas! I always liked the idea of an ever cycling universe, going from big bang to big crunch and back again, repeatedly for eternity. Would just raise a bigger question though - how did the cycle get going??!

It's certainly plausible / possible that the Universe was started from a black hole, and from that we can extrapolate and say that the cycle will keep happening. The question is though, if the black hole didn't reach critical mass in time, surely the black hole would decay?

[badgerchap]

Maybe it is decaying, a little bit more with each cycle?

[Naemeth]

Maybe the Universe is actually within a Multiverse, formed of many black holes, surrounded (much higher up than the Multiverse) by a Xenoverse, which is either a huge empty space with Black Holes in, or itself a black hole.. the possibilities are truly endless.

[Ganymede12]

I just had an Idea! What if white holes are stars? Think about it, you can never reach them, they have loads of missing mass, they're giving out matter constantly. Think about it! Is it possible?

[JulianO]

I just had an Idea! What if white holes are stars? Think about it, you can never reach them, they have loads of missing mass, they're giving out matter constantly. Think about it! Is it possible?

I think its pretty unlikely. It's fairly well understood how stars work, there are still some problems to sort out, but we know how they work to a fair degree of accuracy.

Stars aren't giving out extra mass, they are losing mass. The sun loses about 5 billion tons of mass per hour, luckily it has lots to lose, but this mass is lost, it is not coming from somewhere, it was in the sun, and now it isn't, so the sun is getting lighter every hour.

A white hole would expel mass but presumably not get any lighter.

[Ronnie67]

Remember the first book in the series The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe, it is called The Magicians Nephew, I do not know if many of you have read this book, I read it many years ago, and it opened my eyes to a few thing. They had two coloured rings, one which projected them to a place full of puddles. Each puddle lead to an alternative realm within the story.

My theory is, the universe is or maybe quite similar, a black whole acts like a worm hole which leads into another universe, just think about it, we know very little of what lies within a black hole, so what if we live within a universe, within a universe. We gaze up to the so called heavens daily to a colossal space filled with planets, stars, Nebulas, black holes, galaxies and so on, we have satellites travelling to beyond our solar system. There is so much out there, we just need to discover it

[badgerchap]

Yes, and we also have quite a good understanding of the way stars form in the first place, and there's nothing particularly mysterious about it. Stars are, most commonly (by number) red dwarfs, which aren't even particularly hot. There's no reason one of these can't be reached.

I know people like to think that there are these bizarre, wonderful things going on, as yet unbeknownst to physics that, when discovered will revolutionise physics. Well the thing is, that these things are actually pretty incredible already, without involving wormholes, FTL travel and the like. Think about it:

You live on a soggy chunk of rock which wangs around a massive ball of nuclear fusing hydrogen at several thousand mph., in a galaxy populated by about 200,000,000,000 more of these systems, which all whirl repeatedly around a gargantuan black hole, a single one of which can be the mass of several billion of stars like our sun. You are made from pieces left over from cataclysmic explosions over 4,500,000,000 years ago when massive stars that would dwarf our own sun were torn apart at the end of their lives. Your ancestors survived earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, asteroid strikes, dinosaurs, disease and all manner of mortal threats, most likely coming close to extinction many many times. More recently, they have created language, medicine, art and culture, and today two of you can sit on either side of the planet and discuss all of this with just a tap and a wiggle of a finger.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but no amount of wormholes, white holes or giant space pumpkins is going to top that for an incredible phenomenon!

[Ronnie67]

True, we have come along way, from the big bang to this, Billions of years of evolution, I suspect man will progress even further and in the near future start to colonise other planets. There are many plants discovered which could support human life, one day earth will be gone, but the human race will progress even further

[Ganymede12]

There are many plants discovered which could support human life, one day earth will be gone, but the human race will progress even further

Lets make sure we don't create Ai! I have a umber of reasons why.

Terminator

Battle star galactica

Mass effect

I robot

and the list go's on and on!

[Cath]

I always liked the idea of an ever cycling universe, going from big bang to big crunch and back again, repeatedly for eternity. Would just raise a bigger question though - how did the cycle get going??!

I'm certain theirs a LOT more to it than just cycling like that, as you say their is the problem of how it got started. It's an answer we will never find. Our tiny minds will never be able to comprehend what really is going on here.

I also believe life is no accident. There must be something innate to the atom or to the space it occupies that causes it to eventually form into something soooooo complex as DNA and molecules. Sure it's easy to say it's due to this or that combination of events/chemicals etc but our thinking is just too simplified and nieve to explain the driving force behind just how atoms work together to form something like DNA. Sure, natural selection effects/controls what type of life forms are currently in existence, but their is something very basically innately part of the base level of everything we know. Our existence is certainly not due to any little green men, religion or anything we can imagine.

This is new, and happening through out the entire universe where conditions allow it. Think about it, think about whats really happening here. This is no accident, neither deliberate or not, what's happening here is something immensely profound, more than we can ever imagine.

[DarkStar7]

The singularity of the Universe,all Supermassive BH, all Stella sized and quantum sized BH are all entangled together in the void of space. The so called White hole which is the emission from these singularities is all around us... We call it CMBr and is accompanied by sporadic cosmic ray emission of high energy particles. You see although the Universe is expanding on the large scale it is contracting on the small scale so that the universe always looks the same. The energy in the void produces masses that grow over time giving an equilibrium to the expanding space. Today's Universe was born as a quantum fluctuation within an already established Universe. The Universe has always looked the same even though all of it has been recycled in a never ending cycle.

All entangled singularities are the one and same singularity.!! Think about that every proton has a singularity at its centre that is connected with all other singularities in all other protons around you... Weird!

[DarkStar7]

Since all quantum singularities are entangled and essentially the same object all the energy consumed and lost into BHs is redistributed as quantum uncertainty in the void of space everywhere and causes spacetime to expand. Simples

[Ronnie67]

hey, I just had a silly thought, remember the days when we thought the earth was flat, then the discovery came that the earth was round, imagine this, all planets around, ok apart from the small percent, what if, and I mean what if the universe was a gigantic ball, we dont drop o the edge of the universe but carry on until we come a complete circle, however as the universe is so huge we can never rreturn to the same spot. No one has the answer to whether its a continued or joint, a piece of string has to have a start middle and end unless its a circle. Nice thought, as no one has travelled that distance we will never know, scratch your head on that one

[SionR25]

what if the universe was a gigantic ball,

I think it is, or at least in the way if you could shoot off in one direction at enough speed and travel for long enough you will not ever get to an 'edge' of the universe but will eventually arrive back at the same place.

Sion

[JulianO]

I think it is, or at least in the way if you could shoot off in one direction at enough speed and travel for long enough you will not ever get to an 'edge' of the universe but will eventually arrive back at the same place.

The latest results show the universe is flat, at least pretty much so. WMAP results indicate it is flat within an error of 0.5%. So if you would never come back to your starting point.

[badgerchap]

Sorry guys I have to bow out of this thread now - I'm not much good at this kind of speculatory work any more! Grown older and duller I suppose