New to stargazing

[Charlie_132]

Hello, I'm very new to stargazing, i just brought a pair of celestron upclose 10x50 binoculars, received them monday, i had read reviews on them and people have said that i would be able to see jupiters moons .. but i had a look tonight and i could barely see anything.

I am thinking of buying a pair of celestron 20x50 binoculars I'm not sure yet, Idearly i would like to be able to see all the planets in small detail.

Could anyone give me some advice ?

[Black Knight]

You can generally pick out Jupiters Galilean moons with 10x50 bins - depending of course that they are not behind the planet! However, I've tried the last few days and have been completely unable to. Might just be me though, I find it very hard holding them still for very long!

[Charlie_132]

Oh, I was trying for a long time tonight but i couldnt see anything atall, I would really like to be able to see the planets in detail, but doubt i will be able to with 10x50s ?

I was going to but a 50mm telescope from argos, just a childrens first time one, but im guessing the binoculars are stronger ?

[Black Knight]

Jupiter is also moving away from us at the moment, so it may be that Jupiters moons would be harder to spot. I wouldn't recommend one of those scopes personally, there are far better quality alternatives around to be honest.

[Charlie_132]

Oh okay then, what should i be able to see clearly with 10x50 binoculars ?

Also what would you say would be the best pair of binoculars for me to purchase (fairly cheap) that would allow me to see most planets in detail and saturns rings faintly ?

[Black Knight]

I'm not the best person to advise you on bins to be honest. Take a look at http://binocularsky.com. It's run by a fellow SGL member, hopefully you'll find it useful and interesting.

[Charlie_132]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that website in the morning

Am I better off buying a telescope if I want to look at galaxies and planets in detail ?

Also do you know of any basic websites that could tell me where to look at what time to see planets/galaxies

[Black Knight]

Probably the best visual aid is a software planetarium called Stellarium http://www.stellarium.org. It's really very good, and what's more, is free!

As far as a scope is concerned, part of the problem is that the requirements for viewing planets and deep space objects are very different and really need different scopes. Planets need a long focal length to give you the magnification, but this has a drawback in that these scopes offer quite a narrow field of view, and would be thus unsuitable for observing DSO'S. Compound scopes like Schmidt-Cassegrains, or Maksutovs make good planetary scopes.

For observing with a scope, aperture trumps just about everything. The larger the aperture, the more photons you will capture. So all other things being equal, I would suggest the largest aperture you can reasonably afford. For this reason, dobsonian scopes (Newtonian reflectors mounted on a simple alt-azimuth base), would be the normal weapon of choice, since they offer the best bang per buck you can get. And they would also represent a reasonable compromise that would allow you to observe both planets and DSO's. An 8" dob like this one http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html, is a very popular choice. Of course, it all depends on your budget.

Hope this helps.

[Charlie_132]

Thankyou, I ll download that tomorrow

I feel a bit silly saying this as the telescope is ment for 5 - 10year olds, but if I was to buy the Skywatcher Heritage 76 Mini Dobsonian, which is ment for begginer astronomers, what would be able to see with it ?

Would I comfortably be able to see saturns rings, mars as a red bull and jupiter in detail ? And maybe some glaxies ?

[Doug]

Hi charlie

10x50 should ,if the weather is ok clear skies and all that, see the Moons of Jupiter as pin pricks

20x50 should not be hand held if you want more power then you need 20x80 or 20x100 or even 25x100 and for all these you need a tripod like the Horizon 8115 from First Light Optics

Now what you can see, To see the rings of Saturn and to see they are ring you will need a Telescope like a Dobsonian 200p a scope that will let you see great things planets Nebulas clusters and of course Stars if I was you when you work out and save a bit I would speak to FLO (First Light Optics they are a great bunch there and are very helpful just click on the yellow spot at the top of the page to there site

and don't buy a scope from Argos these some are toys for very young children witch is a shame as they will never see anything in a 50mm scope Just the 200P

any other questions please ask, one more piece of advice ,Join a astronomy club you will get really good advice ( Iv'e just seen Andy's advise and I agree with him ,it shows you that we think the same HAHA

Clear skies

Doug

Essex

[Black Knight]

You would certainly be able to see some objects, but most galaxies apart from M31 Andromeda, would be quite small and faint. Planets, the scope may struggle on, although the moon would be fine.

To get an idea of the field of view and object size, take a look at this website.

Field of view Calculator<script src="title2.js"></script>

To use the field of view calculator, select the scope you are interested in (Skywatcher Heritage 76 Mini Dobsonian) from the drop-down on the left. If the drop-down on the right shows "select a camera", click on "Switch to visual view". Then from the Eyepiece drop-down, select Skywatcher Super 25 or Skywatcher Super 10. Then from the Objects menu, you can choose solar system objects or deep space objects. For example, the Andromeda Galaxy M31, the Whirpool Galaxy M51, or the Orion Nebula M42 can be found under the Messier column under the Objects menu.

Choose other objects as well, to give you some idea what the field of view would be like.

Hope this helps.

[Stu]

As a compromise between the two, how about the Heritage 130p?

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

It gets good reviews on here, from the comments on FLO you will see some detail on jupiter, the moons, saturn and alot more. It's not so expensive and is nice and compact for storage.

On the binoculars side, I had a good look at jupiter the other night with 10 x 50 bins and could just about make out a couple of the moons even though all four were on display. By comparison, with 15x50is stabilised bins I could clearly see all four moons but still no detail on the surface. Larger bins will show a bit more if mounted on a tripod but are not really designed for high magnification, they give good views of wide field objects such as clusters and brighter galaxies like Andromeda.

A telescope will allow you to change eyepiece and get higher mag for planets and lower mag for galaxies. As you seem to be just starting out, keep things simple, use stellarium or buy a star atlas and make yourself a red torch and start finding your way around the sky.

Enjoy whatever you choose to get

Cheers

Stu

[Charlie_132]

Thanks for all the advice given so far, it's helping me a lot!

Black knight - thankyou for the website links you have provided, the field of view website is very useful

Doug - is it a case of I have to buy a very expensive telescope to be able to see planets in detail ? Is there not one pair of binoculars where I can just gaze up at the clear night sky and be able to be amazed ?

Bigmakstutov - am I right in saying this, venus and jupiter are very close together at the moment, venus is the one on the right that shines a lot more and jupiter is the one on the left that just looks like a dot ? (This confuses me a lot as jupiter is the biggest planet, therefore it should be brighter then venus ?)

I am going to have a look at the telescope you suggested.

Are telescopes very easy to use/set up/store away when finished with ? This is one of the reasons I haven't purchased one as of yet.

Idearly I would like something at a reasonable price that I could sit down for a long while and gaze up at the night sky and be amazed by planet detail, galaxies and just general things that the naked eye cannot see.

It seems I'm never going to achieve this with a pair of 10x50 binoculars ?

[hobbesy]

Charlie, don't forget that although Jupiter is far more massive than Venus, it's also approximately 10 times further away from us so will appear smaller and also 8 or 9 times further from the Sun so will reflect less light.

The planets themselves do not give off any visible light, it's all reflected light from the sun. This is different from stars of course, which give off light as they are suns themselves.

[Stu]

Hi Charlie

You are correct about Venus and Jupiter being close in the western sky, in fact they are at their closest for the year tonight. Venus is brighter because it is much closer to us, and much closer to the sun. It is probably also more reflective than jupiter but can't totally remember, either way it appears much brighter. Don't forget Jupiter is approx 400 million miles away!

The unfortunate reality is that seeing fine detail on planets is difficult and requires patience and good skies, aswell as a good, well cooled and collimated scope. You won't see any detail in normal binoculars.

Scopes are the best bet for seeing planets as they can provide the magnification required and have a stable mount to steady the views. I have a variety of scopes, none cheap, and the results can be fantastic, or hopeless if the seeing is no good. You need patience and to train you eye and brain to see the detail.

The 200p scope suggested is a fine scope and will give great views. As, a dobsonian mount it will be simple to set up and use. It is however not small and needs somewhere to be stored. I suggested the 130p as it collapses down for storage, is simple and quick to set up, and gets you using a scope so starts you understanding what you like without a huge investment. It is also very portable so you can pop it in your car and go to a very dark site easily to see deep sky objects

Hope some of that helps

Stu

[BinocularSky]

Just to allow others to comment if they wish, I'm copying my emailed reply (in response to his message left on my web site) to Charlie here:

Charlie,

Detail on planets: Not really a "binocular" thing. Ideally you want a telescope and a magnification approximately equal to the diameter in millimetres. (For reasons why, see my tutorial on telescope function.)

Galaxies (and other Deep Space Objects): This is where binoculars excel. There are several galaxies that are much, much easier in, say, a 10x50 binocular than in the toy scope you suggested getting in the thread on SGL. There are, for example, dozens of galaxies that I can see in my 10x42. Probably the best objects for small binoculars like a 10x50 are open (galactic) clusters.

To get a better idea of how much is possible, may I suggest that you go to my Object Search page, click on the 50mm radio button, put in your latitude, a horizon altitude of 20°, and select a magnitude limit of 8. What it returns will be a list of pretty easy objects in a 10x50. You could then go to the Monthly Maps and see what is available at this time of year.

I hope that helps.

[Charlie_132]

Thanks for al the advice, I'm thinking of buying a 130p telscope (as this will be the best one for me to buy as a begginer?)

would it matter what brand i brought ?

also what eyepiece should i select on the field of view calculator, to give me a rough idea of what im likely to be able to see ?

lastly, is there a website where i can see pictures of all the things i can see through my 10x50 binoculars so i know what roughly to look for, as i don't understand these (gal; Mag: 4.3; And) , (en; Mag: 6.0; Sgr)

[Black Knight]

For the Skywatcher Heritage 130P dob, select Skywatcher Super 25 or Skywatcher Super 10 eyepieces in the FOV calculator. Use the same eyepieces if you are looking at any of the Skywatcher 130P variants, the view is the same on all of them I believe. The 130M is slightly differrent, it has a slightly longer focal length.

[Charlie_132]

Thankyou, with a 130p telescope is it a case of just setting it up in the garden/field and just gazing into the sky and picking out lots of different things just by moving it around a lot ?

or is there alot more to it then that ?

[Stu]

Yes and no! Setting up with a dob is pretty simple, put it somewhere flat, level and firm and you should be good to go.

Any scope of this type may need collimation, which is the aligning of the mirrors. It should be checked each time and makes a big difference to the views. It is simple to do with a little practise and there are plenty of threads on this forum to help. I don't have a dob so am not best placed to help on this one!

As for what to look for. Best to either buy a planisphere which is a simple disc which shows you where things are, or buy a star atlas which you can get cheaply. Can't remember the name of the one I've got but someone will be along soon to say! Lastly, download stellarium which is free to show you what's there.

Make sure your finderscope is aligned properly which you can do in the daytime in a distant object (church spire etc), avoiding the sun obviously!

Use the lowest power eyepiece (largest number eg 25mm) when finding things and away you go.

Just practise on bright things to start, jupiter and venus are obvious ones. Try M42 in Orion and M45 for starters with low power. Plenty up there to see.

Cheers

Stu

[Charlie_132]

I have been looking at a range of telescopes, im seriously thinking about buying a Celestron Powerseeker 50mm Telescope or maybe a Celestron Astromaster 70AZ (as my budget is very low and i want something cheap to start with) but i cant see any difference in the photos from the field of view calculator ...

ive had a look on the field of view calculator, and i can see mostly everything (even saturn very small)

are those pictures accurate ?

also would it be a case of just setting it up outside my house on concrete and looking up at the sky and just picking out interesting things ?

[Jon Sales]

You won't see any planet detail through bino's i'm afraid.

Minimum you really need is an 80mm refractor our even better get a goto telescope.

The bigger the aperture, the more light it gathers and the brighter the object your looking at will be.

For DSO's I would use at least a 6" reflector.

[Charlie_132]

Isn't there any sort of bicoculars where I would be able to see the planets very small or even just be able to make out the rings of saturn ?

I am defently either going to buy Celestron Powerseeker 50mm Telescope or a Celestron Astromaster 70AZ they are both reasonable prices, just not sure what one to buy ...

[JamesF]

I was chatting with my brother about the Heritage 130P (which he has) this afternoon. I think it's an excellent first-time choice and an awful lot of scope for the money. It even has the potential to be something you'd keep forever because it's easy to stick in the car and take with you if you have a larger less portable scope at home.

The problem with the smaller apertures is that you may well end up frustrated because they just collect so little light comparatively speaking. I started with a Startravel 80 and whilst it's a perfectly acceptable telescope, I found I really struggled to see some of the things I wanted to. I subsequently bought the ST102 which made a big difference, and then the ST120 which I really get a lot of enjoyment from. I think the bigger aperture really pays dividends in the UK where we don't get day and after day of clear skies and you perhaps don't want to spend an entire night trying to find, say, the Crab Nebula just to discover that it's a barely visible grey splodge that you might have mistaken for stray light.

I know there are plenty of people who get pleasure from viewing the skies with a 4" refractor and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I'd just caution against buying something because it's cheap when you may get a lot more enjoyment in the long run by waiting a little longer and spending a little more.

James

[Charlie_132]

With the heritage 130p, could you make out saturn pretty easily ?

At the moment I'm stuck between the elestron Powerseeker 50mm Telescope or a Celestron Astromaster 70AZ. As these are a bout £75 cheaper, but really want to see the rings of saturn ...