Astrofest 2012 - what a let down !

[Dave Dubya]

... I’m surprised that the organisers haven’t looked for a more suitable location offering better facilities for the exhibition, possibly dare I say it ..outside of London. I’m no expert on conference/exhibition facilities but surely there must be some where that would offer a better location…

I wouldn’t mind betting that a friendlier location would attract not only more visitors but more exhibitors and probably more potential speakers to the conference….

We were talking about the same thing - as it seems the event has perhaps outgrown the venue, as well as the venue no longer meeting certain expected standards (and Kensington High Street itself is a bit lacking).

We came to the conclusion that Kensington Town Hall is likely a relatively inexpensive for a London venue.

Places like the O2 dome, Excel and Earls Court have great, modern facilities for events like Astrofest...but would no doubt either reduce Pole Star's profit margins or make the ticket price way too high, and so they might be reticent to move it.

[E621Keith]

Don't forget astronomy is not that popular. The exhibitors you saw in Astrofest probably represented most dealers, importers and manufacturers in the country. FLO, Harrison and Optic Star weren't there, but it seemed like everyone else were. If they hold Astrofest in Excel, you'd probably get a lot of empty spaces without enough exhibitors to fill them. They could do with a venue that's slightly bigger, but not too much bigger.

As for catering, High Steet Kensington is just around the corner. There are plenty of choices there.

[Dave Dubya]

Astronomy (and science as a whole) is popular.

And I'm not talking about using the whole of those venues - they each have variable capacity exhibition spaces within them.

Also, I don't think exhibitions should just be about selling things - displays, demos and exhibits should be there too, not just retailers and traders.

[Specman]

There are a few small halls at the NEC which I feel would be a better location and cover the country much better, I've been to various trade shows there and its a really good venue. I think more people from around the UK would tavel to Birminghan NEC than to London.

The Dive Show at the NEC was always bigger and better turned out than the one in London, which frankly was a dead loss for exhibitors.

Its tough getting deals at the moment. We get a lot of stuff imported in our trade and you just wouldn't believe the cost of imports and even raw materials from the far east. Our suppliers have started surcharging us over the trade prices!

It must be the same for the Astro retailers. Its crazy as in a recession you would think prices would be cheaper but it doesn't work that way. We have had to significantly increase our prices across the board just to stay in business. Some of the raw materials used have increased by as much as 400% which has driven some product prices up by as much as 30%.

Remember a 50% off Clearence Sale is a closing down sale, anybody shifting gear at silly prices at the moment in any business sector is either an idiot, out to make a quick 'buck' or going bust!

[SteveA]

Maybe next year then.....

Dead easy from Witney...just take the Oxford Tube from Thornhill Park&Ride in Oxford, get off at Nottinghill in London and take a 10 minute walk down Kennsigton Church Street....did it in 90 mins on Saturday....

[SteveA]

I guess the problem for the organisers is finding a venue that can provide not only an exhibition area but also the facilities for the conference. Despite the shortcomings of the present venue I have to say the conference hall its self is really excellent....then again..it was sold out on Saturday, so maybe Astrofest would suit a larger venue....

How many years has it been running now?....

[pete_gamby]

If the mods will allow it, I'm happy to share the following insight on attending Astrofest from the point of view of a manufacturer/distributor.

Why bother going? Either to promote the brand(s) you sell or to sell some equipment to the attendees or a bit of both

What does it cost? Vixen/Opticron spent somewhere north of £1,500 on stand space, accommodation, transport, food, buying dinner for retail partners, giveaways, posters, brochures, extortionately expensive tins of Diet Coke and so on. Marketing costs for our company can be anywhere from 1% to 10% of turnover, depending on the product category and the sales channel. So best case, we'd need to bring in £15,000 over the course of two days to cover costs.

Who do you want to see/talk to? Customers. People that want to spend money either today or in the very near future on Opticron or Vixen products. We also want to see existing owners of our products and hear their experiences, good or bad.

How do you measure success? Besides the amount of sales, we try to judge an event's success by the number of "conversations" we have. This year's event was way more busy for us in that respect, as evidenced by my continuing sore throat! We gave out more than 200 Vixen catalogues and 150+ Opticron catalogues - our stock of both had gone by around lunchtime on Saturday.

Now the opinion part :-)

If the venue was larger and/or of the Excel/NEC type, it would be far too expensive for any of us in the astro business to exhibit. The exhibit space we have at Astrofest would probably have to cost around £4,500+ at a more "commercial" venue. So for us, the costs are reasonable for the return we get.

Would you get any more exhibits in a larger venue? I doubt it. Adding more retailers would only dilute the sales available as, typically, dragging in more visitors means you add more of those that are not in the market to buy but that are attracted to go for other reasons (location/ease of access to venue, whizz bang stage shows, Pollyanna Woodward etc etc). Non-retail exhibitors still need a reason to go - to add more members if you're the BAA, SPA etc, to recruit more scholars if you're UCLAN, to sell more holidays if you're Astrotours and so on. In essence, everything is about taking money at or soon after the event in order to pay for the space, people and time.

Is the event worth doing? Yes. We see a lot of customers, we have some fun and we enjoy the banter with our customers and with our peers and that all offsets the pain of standing on your feet for two and half days solid!

See you there next year.

Cheers, Pete

[themos]

At Oxford's Stargazing Live event, we got about 1200 people in one day (2pm-10pm), they had to queue up for an hour or more to get in. Imagine if you were there letting them look through a scope you were going to sell them.

[Specman]

What does it cost? Vixen/Opticron spent somewhere north of £1,500 on stand space, accommodation, transport, food, buying dinner for retail partners, giveaways, posters, brochures, extortionately expensive tins of Diet Coke and so on. Marketing costs for our company can be anywhere from 1% to 10% of turnover, depending on the product category and the sales channel. So best case, we'd need to bring in £15,000 over the course of two days to cover costs.

Similar prices we used to pay in the smaller halls at the NEC for the Dive show

If the venue was larger and/or of the Excel/NEC type, it would be far too expensive for any of us in the astro business to exhibit. The exhibit space we have at Astrofest would probably have to cost around £4,500+ at a more "commercial" venue. So for us, the costs are reasonable for the return we get.

I don't agree...Its ironic that the further North you go the darker the skies get and the better the astronomy, yet retailers do tend to ignore customers (or slap them with extortionate delivery charges, but lets not go there ) in the Northern Counties, Scotland and the Islands. Surely a more central venue would attract more customers, and it would open up your business to new markets. The more people that see what you have to offer the more you are likely to sell. I personally have never seen a Vixen scope for example and I live almost about as far North as it gets!

NOBODY, sells Astro equipment up here. I'm seeing a business opportunity, anybody need an agent?

PS. North is not Watford, that doesn't count!

[Specman]

At Oxford's Stargazing Live event, we got about 1200 people in one day (2pm-10pm), they had to queue up for an hour or more to get in. Imagine if you were there letting them look through a scope you were going to sell them.

Good post, my point entirely, couldn't have said it better!

[pete_gamby]

Similar prices we used to pay in the smaller halls at the NEC for the Dive show

Out of interest I thought I'd check the rates for the Dive Show at the Excel this year. At the quoted £199 + VAT per square metre, our space at Astrofest would cost us £3,500

There was a plan for a midlands-based event which seemed to have gained some traction with retailers and manufacturers but it never got much beyond the planning stage. I think that there probably is an opportunity for a more northerly-based event but whether something in say, Manchester, would cater for people in Scotland and the north east I think is debatable.

The Stargazing Live events have certainly proved that there's a huge interest at the beginner level but I suspect that a lot of the demand for equipment for those people can be relatively easily fulfilled by FLO and the like (despite the increased stress levels!). We try to attend as many field events and star parties as possible, both on Opticron and Vixen (as do other vendors like Swaro, Zeiss etc) and we certainly encourage our retailers to do as much out reach work as possible.

Cheers, Pete

[ollypenrice]

I didnt even know about it.

(West Oxfordshire here too)

You'll tend to see it coming up in Astronomy Now magazine.

Olly

[kharga]

"Places like the O2 dome, Excel and Earls Court have great, modern facilities for events like Astrofest...but would no doubt either reduce Pole Star's profit margins or make the ticket price way too high, and so they might be reticent to move it."

Why not move it to somewhere more central for everyone, not just the southerners? What about Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield or Liverpool. Even Stoke on Trent. I am sure that there must be suitable venues - how about the Universities, or the larger hotels that survive on conferences etc??

[daz]

Thanks for the report "from the other side" Pete!

[daz]

BTW - AstronomyNow will argue the point on Kensington for the auditorium facilities.

If someone could find a similar sized venue, with similar auditorium facilities in a more central location, I am sure they would look at it seriously.

This question of venue crops up every year....

[kharga]

1) The Moat House, Stoke on Trent, Meetings & Conferences

2) Keele Uni - and they have an observatory! Conference Venue & Exhibition Venues At Keele University Campus Venue

3) Staffs Uni Conferences and Events

just to name a few!

[Darth Takahashi]

Finally some words of wisdom, stage it at a uni or school,they need the income and can keep rates attractive. Besides its a nicer fit ( Education and Astronomy).

This is exactly what the Germans do with the ATT Assen exhibition and it's the biggest in Europe!

[Keith Cooper]

As Daz says, the auditorium facilities are key. The lecture facilities at the three venues mentioned by Kharga above are too small judging by what they say on their websites – the hall at Kensington can hold almost 900 people. The organisers have looked all over London but tell me that they haven't been able to find a venue that has an auditorium of equal size, plus more exhibition space, and which is affordable. So we stay at Kensington which, although it does get cramped, still has a lot of plus points.

So, why not move out of London? Personally I'd be really excited to have a second AstroFest in the north or in the midlands, but it is easier said than done. I'm not sure all the exhibitors that we have at AstroFest in London would follow us up to Birmingham or Leeds, and there's not enough dealers in the north who may want to attend to make up the shortfall. We would also have to start over in terms of attracting a new audience – we've had nearly 20 years to develop a regular audience at AstroFest. I'm not saying we couldn't build up an audience elsewhere like we have in London but doing that takes time, which isn't really an option when you need the financial return to be immediate for the event to be deemed a success.

Mind, I'm not really part of the organising team, so I'm not privy to everything that goes into it – but I'm just calling it from what I do see from behind the scenes. Everyone I talked to on Friday and Saturday seemed to be enjoying it, we did sell out on Saturday, so it seems to have been pretty successful. Despite the economy going down the drain, people still turn up and exhibitors still turn up and put on a great show, which is hugely impressive. It's that kind of devotion that keeps astronomy alive in the UK.

[psjshep]

NOBODY, sells Astro equipment up here. I'm seeing a business opportunity, anybody need an agent?

PS. North is not Watford, that doesn't count!

Green Witch North in Birstall, West Yorkshire.

Orion Optics UK, Crewe Cheshire

2 Northerners which spring to mind....

[barkis]

UCL would be a good venue, and still in London, if that particular criteria is essential:rolleyes:

Ron.

[Dave Dubya]

"Places like the O2 dome, Excel and Earls Court have great, modern facilities for events like Astrofest...but would no doubt either reduce Pole Star's profit margins or make the ticket price way too high, and so they might be reticent to move it."

Why not move it to somewhere more central for everyone, not just the southerners? What about Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield or Liverpool. Even Stoke on Trent. I am sure that there must be suitable venues - how about the Universities, or the larger hotels that survive on conferences etc??

Maybe because southerners count for more. I mean, let's face it, if you choose to live any further north than Northampton then you deserve what you get.

On a more serious note, it could be that Astronomy Now's staff (or perhaps even it's readership) are closer to London than Birmingham, Manchester etc or it could even be easier to get some international speakers to an event in London rather than other cities (I know JREF mentioned this when they starting running TAM in London).

I go to ASE conference and they alternate year by year between Reading and Leeds - so maybe something similar to that would be a good solution for everyone.

[jfox61]

This was my shopping list for Astrofest and being a complete newbie some of it was pretty basic stuff.

Collimator, cheapish laser type for about 30-35 quid. Only 2 stands selling one both Baader and both £55... result no purchase.

Skywatcher 80T.... Not one anywhere... not even the Skywatcher stand, for such a so called popular short tube why did noone who sell this item bring any? I walked away with a Ikharus 80ED instead but £175 more than I wanted to pay for a short tube, albeit a much better one.

Skywatcher 2" 38mm Panaview. Got one from Astronomia, told 10% discount but on arriving home found I had paid retail price for it. That will teach me not to research prices before going to a show.

Telrad... Got one from widescreen... however full retail price.

Copy of making every Photon count..... Not one copy anywhere on any bookstand or secondhand anywhere. For such a supposedly popular and acclaimed book why didn't anyone think to stock at least a couple of copies.

Sony T adaptor.... Got one... again full retail price and have since found them cheaper on the net.

There were a couple of other items I wanted but due to buying the Ikharus instead of the 80T I ran out of money.

Now I go to many types of show like this as I am an avid waramer, and there are shows like this all year round. Usually the big shows have around 60 or 70 stands so I understand that places like excel can offer lower prices to the pitches.

However, the items that these pitches sell are usually in the range of 99p to about £200 typically. Not only that, they are usually cottage industries and not large retailers. So to them their profit margins are paramount.

Yet they can still offer their customers discounts at these shows. Typically from 5% to 15% depending on volume purchased.

Now, If I had travelled from my home to The widescreen centre and purchased the items from their shop, I would have paid less than I did at Astrofest, myself for 2 days and my wife for one day.

The second day I had to return to bring back my Ikharus scope which was damaged and I was forced to pay again to get in.

I had intended to collect the new scope and take the wife to London Dungeons, but by being forced to pay again just to exchange an item, we decided to both pay entrance, buy the year book and Brian Mays Queens 40 years book, and get them signed.

Not ideal if you want newbies to stay interested in the hobby. Although I understand and sympathise with the retailers in such difficult times, the main thing you have to remember is this:- The customer is the reason you are in business and if you treat the customer poorly you won't be in business long.

Astronomia and Widescreen won't be getting anymore of my money. I don't like being told I am getting a discount to find out when I get home I am not.

[Specman]

Green Witch North in Birstall, West Yorkshire.

Orion Optics UK, Crewe Cheshire

2 Northerners which spring to mind....

Crewe! North!

Crewe is about 12 hours driving away for me!

[Specman]

Maybe because southerners count for more. I mean, let's face it, if you choose to live any further north than Northampton then you deserve what you get.

isn't Braintree and Essex an oxymoron?

(no offence, just banter right? )

[psjshep]

Crewe! North!

Crewe is about 12 hours driving away for me!

You cannot have it both ways... you said Watford isn't North... for you Iceland is barely above you!

Somehow, Cheshire people may be undecided by "Crewe! North!"...

You did say "Nobody"..... ahem! I beg to differ....