Guiding conversion project for 200p and EQ5

[Quatermass]

Hi QM,

We've been looking at your thread and blog, and have got the gear to start guiding but we're having a few problems and hope you can help.

We have set up the Quickcam4000 in the finderscope. Software is PHD, and the interface is GPUSB + ST4. The camera works, and the laptop talks to the mount ok.

We've tried adjusting the brightness/contrast/gamma/saturation settings, etc with no luck at getting a useable image. We're currently testing it and have been proping up the finderscope, so obviously wasn't as secure as it would be on a mount. Managed to get a great glowing blob of moon last night, but it's impossible to get detail. We did try it on a mount in trying to find Venus, or brighter stars, but there seemed to be no way of locating them as there's either so much noise, or in reducing the noise, just a dark screen.

On positive note, after the advice you gave us previously, we have bought a cheap planetry CCD (Opticstar 130C) and are able to take acceptable images of the moon manually guiding, and feel we are on the way with planets.

We'd really appreciate any advice or some pointers as to where we might find it.

Thanks

Flinthead

Hi Flinthead

Glad the blog was of use to you all, if your using the webcam on the finderscope its only purpose on the finder scope will be to focus on a star for guiding. If your using it on there to image the moon you will have very poor results.

To image the moon with it you need to place the webcam in the telescope. Use a 2xBarlow lens and place the webcam in that. This then goes in your telescope and your finder scope is used as normal. Using sharp cap or similar free software to capture the moon will then give you an AVI file you can then put through registax and this will give your final stacked image of the moon.

The planet and the moon are best done with the webcam in a 2xbarlow lens in your telescope not the finder scope.

For guiding purposes you but the webcam in the finders scope and use it to find a suitable guide star with. Once locked on your guide star you can then guide with PHD.

Hope that helps pm me if your struggling.

QM:)

[Flinthead]

Hi QM,

thanks for the reply, we are using our imaging camera on our SW200 and we are quite pleased with the results although clearly got a lot to learn.

Our problem is with guiding. We have our guidecam in our finderscope, just like on your blog, and we have the shoestring interface and ST4 port, that is all hunky dory, but when try to test the guidescope in PHD, we either get loads of noise or of we reduce the noise we get a black screen. Not a sign of a star and the image of the moon we got was just a blob of light.

As we are using a similar set of gear and software as lots of others, the problem is clearly in what we are doing. The settings or the focus, or something else we haven't thought about.

This might sound a daft question but for testing the guidecam in PHD, does it have to be mounted. Last night we were just holding the guidecam on a prop and pointing at the moon, although the other night it was mounted, and with similar results.

Thanks

Flinthead

[Quatermass]

Hi Flinthead

Um, yes you do have to have your guide scope mounted on top of your main scope. If you dont it would be impossible to guide with. You put the webcam in the finderscope and I tend to first of all find a bright star then when the finder scope it on it take the back of and slide the webcam in then put the whole thing back on my telescope mount and gently move the webcam back until I can see a star on the screen to guide with. It also helps to change the setting in PHD so that you are set on 0.5 seconds for your webcam and also make sure you have gone to the brain settings and selected noise reduction option in there.

Ideally a better camera such as the QHY5 would give you clearer star selection but the webcam will work if you can get to a brightish star. I suggest lots of practise first with guiding as it takes a while to get used to it all here is a video I put together showing the complete set up and how it works hope that helps.

QM.

Setting up a guiding system on an EQ5 mount - YouTube

[malc-c]

I also thought my modding days were over with my new 'quality' mount on the way......

5 mins of google has already convinced me to take it apart as soon as it arrives to regrease it..... oh and then there's the belt-drive options.....

GOD HELP ME!

LOL - trust me it's worth it

http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/160466-heq5-experiments-belt-drive-2.html

[Flinthead]

Hi QM,

So it's "nil point" for not setting the mount an scope and testing the whole lot together, doh!

We'll try the whole lot the next time we get a bit of clear sky.

We watched the video that you posted the link for, and it was useful as it showed that at least we have got the hardware side ok. Now its just the set up.

I'm hoping that it's just a matter of focus and settings. In terms of settings I assume you need a combination of high contrast, low brightness, medium saturation and median noise reduction(3x3)? Not sure what to do with the gamma setting.

Thanks again,

Flinthead.

[Quatermass]

Its really a matter of practise and tweaking to get it all working have a good read through the phd manual as well and make sure your telescope is balanced and that your focus is spot on as well. It took me several trys before I got to grips with it all and added to getting a reasonable polar alignment ballance and focus plus finding your target its not that easy. Having the finder scope mounted correctly will inable you to get your guide star and once you have done that just practise with phd for a few sessions till your comfy with it. Best to plan ahead and work on one subject each night as well. Hope that helps most of all have fun doing it

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[pixueto]

Dear all,

I am having a kind of mixed bag experience with my autoguiding project. I am happy because I got my kit guiding flawlessly yesterday night but prior to that I run into a lot of trouble.

If you remember, I am using a modded EQ5 with a SW200P. My finder & guidescope is a stellarvue F50 which takes eyepieces. The finder is in rings with screws. I use the finder with a 2X barlow and a Philips SPC 880 (unmodded) + PHD.

Whereas my webcam won't pick faint stars for guiding, so far I have been able to point the stellarvue finder to a bright star no farther away than 4 degrees from the DSO which is fine. My problem is that, once I move the finder, I really struggle to align it again with the main scope. Also, I find it very hard to direct the finder and secure it where I want to by using the rings.

I would be very interested on any suggestions about how to deal with this. When I started this project I was more concerned about software, wiring and the ability of the EQ5 to produce guided images but that seems to be OK and i'm having the real problems from a 'mecanical' side which I did not expect.

I could really do with some help. I thought of different possible solutions. I thought of using my old generic SW finder to align it with the main scope so I can find targets whereas I can remove it from the clamp and put the stellarvue with the rings for the guiding. Would that work or will a lose alignment every time I remove it and put it back to find another target?

Thank you very much for your help ans suggestions

Edited April 12, 2012 by pixueto

[Quatermass]

Hi Pix I would lose the barlow as I dont think its helping you get a good range. I dont use one and find if I move the adjusting bolts on my finder scope I can slew to a suitable star for guiding. Once I have my guide star Im ok. You have to keep in mind this is a budget set up and will not be as good as badgers heq5 set up but does get you by for now. After alot of practise a 5 min sub is the norm if its a very good graph I can sometimes manage 8-10 mins but thats pushing it.

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[Quatermass]

Using both finders is a good idea thats what i do use one to find another to guide as i have two now.

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[pixueto]

Thanks QM. Getting rid of the barlow is not really an option as the webcam won't reach focus without it.

[pixueto]

To be honest, there is always a bright enough star not far away from most targets. What i'm doing at the moment is planning in stellarium which is the closest magnitude 6 star (or better). I point the scope to the DSO and then I point the finder towards that star.

The problem is that I can't get to that star by only screwing/unscrewing a bit; I have to unscrew the finder loose to direct it to the guide star and then secure it. This is one of the bits that I'm finding extremely difficult!

[pixueto]

About swapping finders, I would I thought that it you put a tiny different amount of pressure when screwing the finder into place, you lose alignment between finder and scope. Isn't that so?

[pixueto]

By the way, as I said it's not all bad news. Yesterday I got PHD guiding nicely with a very flat and smooth graph. I don't really understand why because I used the same settings than the other night when the graph looked like the Andes! Also M51 was nearly vertical and close to the meridian and I would've thought that would make things even more difficult? But the graph and the subs were brilliant so I was really chuffed about it.

About exposure times, I think that, being realistic and considering the light pollution in south London, I should limit my subs to 2-4 mins at ISO 800? I also got a very cheap timer and if the thing is guiding properly I can leave it on its own whilst reading some astronomy books.

Edited April 12, 2012 by pixueto

[Quatermass]

Like you say pix its tempremental but that barlow is restricting your fov and im sure you would be better off without it if you can do it. I find the same thing with phd practise helps a lot for sure. I use one finder scope to find my target as normal then a put the other one in and after lining up remove the end lens and put in the webcam to get a star its fiddly but it works.

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[Flinthead]

Bingo!

Well after waiting a week for some clear skies we finally got our chance last night, and we actually managed to focus on venus and guided successfully, also managed to lock onto a bright star and successfully guided on that. Still got a way to go, fine tuning the setting, but feel we are well on the way.

Reading Pix's post I suspect that we might have a similar problem with regard to aligning the guide scope with the the main scope, especially with an imaging device on both, but we'll see.

Maybe get a chance for another go tonight.

Thanks QM again for your help and advice.

Flinthead

Edited April 16, 2012 by Flinthead

[Quatermass]

Bingo!

Well after waiting a week for some clear skies we finally got our chance last night, and we actually managed to focus on venus and guided successfully, also managed to lock onto a bright star and successfully guided on that. Still got a way to go, fine tuning the setting, but feel we are well on the way.

Reading Pix's post I suspect that we might have a similar problem with regard to aligning the guide scope with the the main scope, especially with an imaging device on both, but we'll see.

Maybe get a chance for another go tonight.

Thanks QM again for your help and advice.

Flinthead

Glad to hear its working out for you now, it does take a bit of getting used to and I feel the webcam is perhaps not the best tool to use but like I said it is a budget set up and will certainly be useful until you can afford the full monty.

Great night last night as well ideal for testing it all out

[pixueto]

Hi guys, it's me again. I've been quite busy with work recently but yesterday I managed to get my stuff out again. Yes, swapping finders to locate targets and to guide did work nicely. It made things really, really easy.Thanks QM.

Yesterday it was a bit windy but I still managed to try the guiding system with M13. I went for 3' subs and, although the PHD graph wasn't very smooth (I blamed it on the wind), I still managed to keep 95% of the subs.

Now I'm quite happy with my setup for guiding. So far, I've been able to direct the stellavue finder/guider to a suitable star close to the target using the rings. So, to be honest, so far, I don't see the need of spending £200 on a QHY type guider.

Thanks

[pixueto]

By the way, that's the picture. 1 hour with 1' subs (unguided), 1'30'' and 3' subs (guided). The PHD graph was very rough and the night a bit windy.

Thanks.

[Quatermass]

Thats a great result pix worth all the ups and downs you had to suffer getting this sorted out. Swopping finder scopes is not ideal but if it gets the job done who cares.

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[pixueto]

At the moment, I haven't had much trouble obtaining 10min subs with my budget kit -although the light pollution in my area is a big problem. This is my setup for whoever may be interested:

-SW200P on EQ5 with modded handset (shoestring mod)

-Stellavue F50 finder + 2X celestron ultima barlow to reach focus + Philips SPC 880 flashed (I use this setup as the guiding scope)

-canon 350D (unmodded) + a very cheap chinese remote shutter timer

-aurora flat panel (for taking flat frames)

-Zoostorm notebook (probably the cheapest notebook out there) to control the mount through PHD

-Bahtinov mask to reach focus

-extension lead

And yes...the grass needs cutting!

[Quatermass]

Good to see a picture set of your gear there Pix pretty much like mine is set up except I make use of two finder scopes one for finding one with the webcam in it. I have yet to try guiding with my evostar ed80 which is of course lighter then my 200p so that may well prove to be better. Just waiting for my replacement hand set for the dual axis kit. That and the clouds to go.. cut that grass mate you will be getting slugs crawling up your mount.

[pixueto]

:)I mowed the grass today:icon_salut:

I suppose I am lucky in that the wind is kind to me in my area. Maybe that's the secret to get 10min subs with the EQ5. What about you QM? Does it get windy there? Do you use anything to shield the scope?

[Quatermass]

Yes mate i use a big fishing brolly it works very well but if its too windy I wont bother. The 200p catches the wind like a sail.

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[The_PSY3NTIST]

And another shoestring mod is born

[Peter_A]

Thanks to Quatermass I too went down the shoestring road with my EQ5/200P. I had my first successful guided AP session last night (Friday 07SEP12) using a QHY5/ST80 and PHD.