No Knowledge of the night sky is required

[DaveGibbons]

I was just thumbing through January's Astronomy now-a rare purchase for me but had a couple of refractor reviews I wanted to read, an Istar 152 phantom and Sky-watchers 150 ED triplet.

Came across Celestron's ad for the Sky Prodigy scope and sort of fixated on the words "No knowledge of the night sky is required". I did not know quite what to make of that. I suppose in this day and age telescopes are just another gadget and this is a way someone with no experience can get into Astronomy.

I just wonder though if it takes not the slightest effort or indeed possibly real interest for many it will just be a passing fad then no knowledge of the night sky need ever be aquired, does it matter?

cheers

Dave

[Parus major]

Two thouhhts did come to me, someone would have to drop £800 on it and the size of the telescope they'd see next to nothing.

[pete_l]

"No knowledge of the night sky is required"

I can see what they mean. In "the old days ;)" owning a car meant having to have some knowledge about mechanical things. At the very least: chokes, gears, etc. if not spending every sunday morning under the bonnet tinkering (ahhh, british leyland ....) to keep the wretched thing running.

Now, for some people a lot of the "fun" in astronomy is the journey. Setting up, aligning, getting the right kit, man against nature - all that sort of thing. Whereas for others it's the result: seeing stuff, getting nice images - and all the preparation and after-work is an annoyance. Same coin - two sides.

It may be that Celestron are pitching their Sky Prodigy at the latter group. Let's face it, a lot of the newcomers to here (and other forums) get a lot of advice, which sounds reasonable and sensible to us, old lags. But to them phrases like "parabolic mirror", "aperture", "refractor", "eyepiece" are just technobabble. In addition, newcomers are often told to start with binoculars, that they should "learn the sky" and all sorts of other things. All they want is to put their new telescope in the garden and see stuff - no aligning or focussing malarkey, no having to "star hop" to a target - just click and go. After all, that's how a lot of telescopes are sold - just look at the packaging.

[nightfisher]

Good post Dave, i have very little knowledge of the night sky, but enjoy learning,! and after 12 years or so of astronomy i have reached the stage where i can look up an object from a chart and usually find it, all part of the hobby, and a never ending learning curve, and one reason i wont get a "goto"

[brantuk]

I reckon they're still going to need to know what they're looking for to find it. Guided tours might work but soon get boring - not every item they randomly goto is gonna be visible automatically.

In the end they're gonna be looking up M numbers and NGC numbers without any idea of what they're going for, how to view it, what eyepieces to choose, effect of seeing conditions etc. Maybe these things'll turn into expensive toys that get discarded mostly. Or maybe I'm too cynical lol

[m.tweedy]

I Maybe these things'll turn into expensive toys that get discarded mostly.

Good-bring back the for sale section soon:D:D:D

It was just a jest.

Personally I think that there is enough room for everyone to enjoy the hobby the way they want it.

[rickygoespop]

For me the star hopping and identifying is half of what astronomy means to me, not just what I can see with my eye through an eye piece. I couldn't imagine knowing a fracture of what I already know with one of those goto things.

The only reason I think I could get one of those is if I had kids and they pretty much want quick results.

[MaxLux]

At the end of the day, it will just be a marketing exercise for Celestron, they will sell a bucket load of em! In 2-3 years there will be a bucket load of em in the sales and wants ads:rolleyes: If it helps keep companies like Celestron afloat, good on em I say. I don't have the time to pursue this hobby as many did back in the 60's & 70's on a DIY self-help basis. A few buyers of these will progress to become real backyard astonomers (buying shed loads of kit) which has to be a good thing for the rest of us :D

[swamp thing]

But "No knowledge of the night sky is required" to buy any scope.

Just a willingness to learn, and this applies regardless of what scope you buy.

Whether your manually star hopping or setting up a Goto you've got to start learning some aspect of the sky.

If you don't want to learn the night sky, what the hell are you doing astronomy for?

Regards Steve

[Jessun]

It' a good way commercially to get people's attention to ease of use. If you have the slightest interest you will inevitably start learning more about what you just 'clicked' on and it builds from there. Why spend all that time learning without a scope??

Farfetched parallell: A friend of mine went to a Japanese archery club while he was living over there, and was forced to do the motions with nothing in his hands for the first three months. The next three months he was given a bungee cord... Then three months with just the bow. After nine months he was given an arrow for the first time. He shot it straight up into the ceiling and left...

[ronin]

Suspect that there are fair few out there that consider themselves as astronomers and don't own a scope.

Get an iPad, iPhone or most other smart phones with GPS, put an app on it that tells you what you are holding the instrument up to and you will be able to zoom in and get data on the "observed" object.

Saw several people doing this at last years Stargazing Live Event.

You can even do it with clouds and sat indoors.

Why have a scope?

Why stand outside and freeze, or sit inside and moan?

Willing to argue that you would get more information from a smart phone and app then from an 8" scope for a GCSE in astronomy.

[Pug]

Different strokes for different folks!

I personally get a buzz out hunting things down, but there have been nights, when I haven't found any of my intended targets, that I'd love to have a goto!

[craigsta]

Being a complete "newbie" and only have owned my telescope for about two weeks. It was a choice i thought hard about when picking my telescope. "goto" or "not" i decided that i wouldn't and would invest the money in the optics and mount (as i was on a tight budget) and would rather learn my way around the sky before in the future getting a GOTO. Part of the fun is learning where and how to get to it. Also satisfaction when finding it.

[Duns]

My strategy was to invest in a GoTo as a means of learning the night sky whilst not getting too frustrated at not finding my target.

The few times I have been able to use my scope - i have established targets - use GoTo to find them, then use star charts to fimiliarise myself with the region/constellation I am viewing. In a couple of years I suspect I will upgrade and it won't be GoTo.

At the moment for me its like having one of you experienced guys sitting next to me pointing me in the right direction

[swamp thing]

At the moment for me its like having one of you experienced guys sitting next to me pointing me in the right direction

Apart from you've still got all your biscuits to yourself.

[182570]

Itend to agree with both viewpoints,but my own preference is to buy a scope without all the frills,it makes you think about what your doing,and gives you a thorough grounding in the night sky. That's why when I purchased my first scope(not yet arrived:rolleyes:)Iwent for good quality optics rather than all the expensive add-ons,at the end of the day it's down to personal choice,but I do suspect that once the initial excitement wears off the goto telescopes then a fair proportion end up in garages and lofts up and down the country:icon_confused:

[Mr Spock]

No knowledge required - this is why people buy huge scopes and don't even know you have to focus them.

Still, you can buy a car without knowing how to drive...

[GJBC]

I can see where both sides are coming from as well. though i am on the side of the GoTo. My first scope was an etx90. to be honest i was that green and had no paitence with its go to so i saw very little at first as i never knew where things were and came so close to giving in. i then started work on Farringdon road on a six month contract away from home and at that time Telescope house were still there and only two hundred yards away. a visit to the shop one day saw me getting a lxd55 10" SNT. Alan explained the set up was more involved and it would have to be done correctly for it to give the best reults, so i bit the bullet and went for it. first tweo tries i failed then it clicked you need to know the alignment stars mmmmm in the sky that night / time of year. the third time i was ready pointed north right co ords and set time bingo it worked OK off to Saturn spot on i knew where it was as i could see it m45 spot on m42 spot on M this m that. i decided to join the local society and turned up first night just me left the scope at home they got out their Dob we saw a couple of thing here and there but they failed on many. the next time i took my scope and set it up. i had the "should learn the sky chat i hear so often now but by the end of the night it was my Go To scope that was showing the public the objects. a few months later one of the team turned up with his new celstron C11 all singing and dancing SCT. he set up in the corner of the field as in his words did not want to get embarrassed if it did not work. he had been observing for years but after an hour all we could hear was Ohhh's, and Ahhh's, "Never seen that before" and "ah i was looking in the wrong place. at the end of the night after all the public had left he came over and ever so slightly embarrassingly said i have been doing this for 30 years and i have seem more on this one night than I have in all the years of doing astronomy.

we both still use go to but now are able to locate many objects manually. but that has been learned by finding it in the goto first then looking through the finder and seeing where in the constalation it is over time we now can find objects in peoples own non go to equipment they bring hence they see they have not bough a pile of crock it gives them confidence to have a go them selves but i always get them to see it through the spotting scope as well as through the scope and explain where in the constellation it is. i also encourage them the learn what is rising in the east and explain that is what is going to travel past for the next few months so learn constellations learn what is in them and over the year you will pick up the night sky and "Some" of its jewels.

So I am sitting on the side of the fence with the guys and gals who gladly use the GoTo

The one other thing it allowed me to hone was the preciseness of set up required for astro photography when you have a camera stuck on the end of the scope you have o trust the GoTo to get you there or there about but that another argument as if you have to use a camera it usually means it is not an object able to be seen due to its faintness hence you need goto and tracking.

going to get plasters for my fingers most typing i done in ages sorry for typos

[twotter]

I just wonder though if it takes not the slightest effort or indeed possibly real interest for many it will just be a passing fad then no knowledge of the night sky need ever be aquired, does it matter?

Does it matter? No, I don't think it does. If someone enjoys their hobby with a Sky Prodigy telescope then good luck to them

[saturn4me]

I know it's each to their own,but the fun part for me is fumbling my way round the sky and eventually finding objects im looking for.

One of the reasons i got a 200p dob was because it's manual i've got to learn the sky myself which im still doing and i love.

I can see both sides of the coin though so its each to their own but i prefer to do it the harder more interesting way.

[cantab]

Given the number of people who get a telescope (usually of the cheap "department store" variety) and then complain they can't see poop through it, the appeal of such a system is obvious. Way I see it is if it works, great. If it doesn't work, then troubleshooting it's gonna be ten times harder than a manual scope.

[ronin]

I know it's each to their own, but the fun part for me is fumbling my way round the sky and eventually finding objects Im looking for.

A lot of us don't want to fumble our way around the sky.

There is no real point in arguing over this as some like doing it themselves, some are happier for a system to do it for them.

I use a goto because I have some idea of what is up there and where it is. What I want is a scope to show me it. A goto does that by the quickest route I have met yet.

Is Knowledge required? No.

Reasoning: First time you looked up and wondered at them little dots, you had no knowledge, but had just started doing astronomy.

Will say that this is starting to work it's way a bit off of the original question. Which was basically is knowledge of the night sky required to do astronomy.

It is starting to get to the old (boring) arguement of goto vs manual.

[The_PSY3NTIST]

I'm on the goto side for a beginner. Only knew the planets and where m42 was when I got my non goto scope and it took me ages to learn not many more. Just got a goto grab and go, have only used it twice and already know where loads more objects are. It got to the point where I was using the little goto to point where I need to be looking with my non goto eq5 200p. When you are dodging clouds goto is a god send but I also agree that just wondering round the sky manually is a great experience and gives you a sense of achievement when you see what you set out to find staring back at you in all it's beauty

[smudgeball]

I actually agree with Celestron's statement in as much as they are attempting to provide technology to remove your need for knowledge.

If you don't want to learn the night sky fine.

If you do that's fine as well.

It's a half way house for me. I let GOTO find the object, I learn a bit about what I'm looking at and where it is.

Agree with Ronin, you'll never satisfy the Manual or GOTO arguement.

Both are here to stay and companies like Celestron are just using marketing to sell products (that's what companies do)

I mean look at MEADE Lightswitch !!

I don't think a lack of knowledge will put people off buying a Sky Prodigy scope....much the opposite.

I'm sure there will be many more products like this to come.

Regards

Neil

[UnderTheRain]

I've just ordered my first scope (hopefully it'll be here early this week) with goto. Not having had a scope before I've taken a couple of weeks holiday so I can spend some time learning how to set it up and use it properly. I personally love all the fiddly bits I can't wait for it to arrive. I'm going to try to not even unpack the scope for a day or two just so I can get my head around the stand. I'm really looking forward to learning how to set it up and collimate it properly and then polar aligning and getting the goto working properly. I'm learning the sky slowly but I'm sure that pace will increase the more I use it. The technical bits are half the attraction for me ;-)