Ian123 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Looking at purchasing some new bins but if anyone has any experience with the Helios Quantum 4 binos i would appreciate any advice. I am looking at either the 20x80(triplet) or the 20x90.Would it be ideal to go for the slightly larger aperture or is the tripletof a better optics?Will also be purchasing the Horizon tripod to accompany the bins.Bins at FLOCheers, Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_l Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Just be aware that the higher the magnification, the harder they are to hold steady. While that's less important for daytime viewing, at night when you want to keep trained on the same target for some time, it becomes a pain. Likewise, the larger the objective the heavier the bino's are - which makes holding them unaided even more of an effort.For anything more than a swift, couple of seconds, look around - esp. it they're more than 8x50's I strongly suggest getting a VERY good tripod. One that is at least as tall as you will be when observing (since most astro targets are above your head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm also looking so thought I'd piggy-back this threadOriginally I was looking at some classic 10x50s but now my in-laws have given me a budget up to £150 I'm tempted to go up to 15x70I've looked at the Strathspey Marines, the Helios naturesports which have both had good reviews at the 10x50 but was also wondering about the Helios 10x60 or 15x70 on FLOI am a beginner and have just enjoyed some naked-eye observing and getting to know the constellations. My boy is getting a 76mm mini dob for Xmas but I thought a decent quality pair of bins would be good. I will probably look into getting a sturdy tripod but this takes it out of range as a prezzie from the in-lawsIs it practical to use the 15x70s handheld or should I go for 10x50 or the 10x60 - and is the extra aperture of the 10x60 going to make much difference to the gathered light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 If you don't already have a binocular, get a 10x50 -- remarkably useful size. With your budget, you can get quite a good one if you search around. For example, the Opticron Imagic 10x50 is SO much better than the cheap Kunming-made stuff that infests the budget offerings.A 15x70 really needs to be mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Yep , starting to think that the 10x50 is a good all rounder and wont NEED the mount yet but till benefit in future, and can be good for day use tooI think its too easy to get overexcited with magnificationOverall the Pentax or the Opticron Imagic - only £13 between them, both advised by Martin from FLO, and a v quick response too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 I already own some Helios Fieldmaster 10x50 and they seem to be o.k and would suit but really like to upgrade.As mentioned i will be purchasing the Horizon 8115 tripod to mount my new bins for steady viewing.Been looking and a few other bins to consider are the Helios Apollo 15x70The Opticron 11x80The Pentax 20x60But i do like the Helios 20x90, are the other models better optically to these? Never thought it would be this toughter choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They all look nice but getting out of my Xmas budgetThe 10x50 will be a family asset for life hopefully, for skies and wildlife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Been looking and a few other bins to consider are the Helios Apollo 15x70The Opticron 11x80The Pentax 20x60But i do like the Helios 20x90, are the other models better optically to these? Yes. The Helios Apollo is both optically and mechanically better. it is reflected in the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdstuart Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I found my 15 x 70 were fine hand held for scanning the sky for up to half an hour...My 20 x 80 are impossible to hold for more than a few seconds..I use a large Manfrotto tripod with a joystick head which works really well for me and the 20 x 80's but does not allow slow motion movements.The 20 x 80s give a lot more light of course than a 10 x 50 and so more galaxies are possible to pull from the sky. They also allow more doubles to be split...Having said that 20 x 80mm is still pretty small for serious DSO work..it will allow you to pick up messier and the bright NGC offerings though...The more you spend the better the sharpness of the FOV at the edges...generally..I have some russian 7 x 50's and they are sharp almost to the edge. This makes the view special and more natural and I can look at it for hours...Cheaper bins make the stars all "stretch" around the edges which to me takes the edge off the experience..Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thank's for the replies people, i have narrowed it down to 2:Helios Quantum 4 25x100 orHelios Apollo 15x70Both in the same price bracket and both intruiging binos.Couple of day's to make my mind up now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Helios Apollo 15x70. Reasons: Much better optically and mechanically Can be hand-held Is not internally vignetted -- you will see nearly as much as with the bigger binoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazing_Cliff Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 10 x 50 Ideal for hand use any higher best used with tripod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDee Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I would go for the apollo 15x70s, much lighter and easier to mount than the 100s, also the wider FOV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Done, new bins ordered.Jumped slightly deeper than intended which the new purchase.I have opted for a comprimise in all departments regarding my choice.Firstly would like to thankyou for your input and knowledge and experience in helping me choose.Slightly more expensive choice but hopefully worth it.I decided for the Apollo series, not the 15x70 but the 22x85 Seeing as these will be my main observation tool for some time i thought i'd make a decent choice and should have some good views.Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 That's not a compromise! The 22x85 is as bright as the 25x100 that you were considering, with a similar quality to the 15x70, i.e. it's better than either. What will you mount it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 From what I've read on this forum and a search I have ordered the Horizon 8115 which would seem to suit the bins(hopefull) but I will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The 22x85s are nearly the same true aperture as the 25x100s so as previously mentioned they'll be just as bright. You would have to pay a lot more to get better quality astro bins.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 From what I've read on this forum and a search I have ordered the Horizon 8115 which would seem to suit the bins(hopefull) but I will see.Tripods are fine for stuff below about 60 deg; above that (where there is far less intervening image-degrading atmosphere) you'll have four problems beginning to kick in. In no particular order:Most tripod heads need to be reversed to go higher than 60*-ish (not sure about the 8115, so this may not apply)The turning moment of the weight of the binocular about the altitude axis of the tripod increases, so you have to increase the tension and it becomes increasingly difficult to locate and fix on a target the higher you go.Your legs and those of the tripod begin to compete for the same tiny snippet of space-time.You really need to be seated or reclined to reduce neck-ache with straight-through binoculars; solving that problem increases the quantity of competing entities in #3.The simplest solution, I think, is a parallelogram mount. Avoid the cheap ones; they are rubbish with heavy binoculars. There are self-build designs on the web; give me a shout if you want a pointer to some of the better ones. Alternatively, various people have concocted other ingenious solutions -- one guy in our astro club made one from an old photographic enlarger mechanism; it's a bit like a heavy-duty angle-poise . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The 8115 tripod is usable, but the head that comes with it needs replacing with something stronger for these bins. I've used a Manfrotto 405 geared head on a Manfroto 475 tripod with the Helios Apollo 28x110s and it worked very well. Unfortunately the 405/475 combination is a pricey setup to buy now. I bought mine a few years ago when it was a couple of hundred quid cheaper. I've since removed the centre geared section of the head to make it into a proper Alt-Az mount that will go to 90 degrees.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Would really like a prallelogram Steve but seem to be like hens teeth or rather expensive.If you could point me in a good design of a self build (wooden design) i could getthe chap in the next unit to mine to build one, he's pretty handy at stuff like that as im not!!Nice setup John but that head is £350, almost as much as the bins!Also i see there is an option to use filters with the Apollo series, is this option a viable one due to the fact i would need to purchase 2 i presume and is thereany real benefit to using filters in binos?Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The eyepieces have standard 1.25" filter threads on the outside of them so you can fit any regular 1.25" filters. I tried it but as the filters are in between your eyes and the eyepieces I found them a bit annoying as they did reduce eye relief quite a bit and you might not be able to get your eyes as close to the eyepieces as you would like to. I tried SkyWatcher light pollution filters as they're quite cheap, but didn't notice much difference. Nebula filters would have been more useful, but buying two filters isn't cheap and I didn't feel like spending the money for what might be a small improvement.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinocularSky Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 @Ian: The P-mount I like best for your purposes is:Binocular Mount(the all-wood version and parts list are at the bottom of the page). If you are reclining, then I think it is best to have the mount either to your side or behind you and, if you can, adapt it so the binocular is suspended from above as in the bottom picture here. If you are standing or seated upright, it doesn't much matter, in which case you might prefer this one: It's pictures only (should be sufficient) but, if you need the text, it is in my ATM book -- give me a shout and I'll scan you the relevant bits if you want them.As for cost of mount, really it's worth it. An old adage used to be that a suitable mount will cost at least as much as the telescope (or, in our cases, the binocular). An even older adage says that the mount will cost twice as much. IMO there's little point in having a really good bit of optical kit, then mounting it in a way that prevents you enjoying the excellence you've just paid for. Obviously, there are budget considerations for all of us, but we can at least aspire... .@John: With the filters, I have only one UHC filter. I put it in the right eyepiece (my dominant eye) and leave the left unfiltered. I can "blink" to find the appropriate faint fuzzy and, once I have it, with two eyes I have the one view superimposed on the other. Borrow a filter and try it. But you're right, it's a nuisance having the filter on the eye side of the eyepiece, but it's better than not having it at all.re your 28x110 - what's it like? Does it use the full aperture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johninderby Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 They did seem to be within a couple of mm of the advertised aperture. I don't have the 28x110s any more. Sent back as they had collimation problems, and at that price I wasn't willing to settle for a pair that weren't right. I did have a pair of the 15x70 Apollos before and they were perfectly collimated, a real pleasure to use. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oredered the bins yesterday morning and they arrived this morning, great sevice by the guys at FLO.Upon opening the two cardboard boxes to get to the bins i arrived upon a great looking and sturdy aluminuin case.Opened the case very slowly and i was absolutely blown away by the size of these things Cant imagine what the 25x100 would look like!!Carefully picking them up out of the foam lined case i was suprised by the weight as well.They seem excellent quality and very well made, did i mention they are HUGE and no way a hand held bino.The Horizon is of similar quality but didnt come with instructions, took me a minute to get the plate off.I do have some issues though, the central stabilizing bar on the bins has a little play innit, is this normal?Also when mounted the bins can move freely 360 degrees on the mount around the mount head?When the head is locked up tight the bins do seem to move and not holding position accurately?I suppose with a little tinkering here and there i will secure it a little better, will post some pics soon.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian123 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Plus the weather here has been not favourable to the observer.Heavy and high cloud and rain for the last two days and does not seem to be getting better:mad:Can be expected with a new astro purchase i presume though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.