The For Sale Section will Return in 2012

[whooshbang]

Surely the genuine purchaser has a good idea of what they are looking for whereas the trader must spend most of his/her time constantly refreshing the section looking for the bargain.

Big thanks to the Mods & Admins for the return of this section, it must be an absolute nightmare to moderate.

I have only made 2 purchases from here but that's 2 more than any other forum out there on the web!

Sometimes i like to browse this section and simply dream.

Sometimes i don't even know what the item is that people are selling or what it does, this inspires me to look it up elsewhere on the forum and learn about it..... for me this section is not just about buying and selling, it's about wishing and learning too!

[Catanonia]

Definately name buyers and sellers to each trade along with a rating system / reputation.

[gazmass]

Not sure what the value of having a specific post count means before you can buy or sell, there are many decent people out there who enjoy reading stuff on their chosen forum to improve their understanding and pleasure but maybe don't have te confidence to continually chatter on what can be a deep topic at times. Why should it matter if they don't post too often or keep up a required rate, must they join in conversations they do not want to just to be able to buy ...I really can't see the logic there. Not everyone wants to talk to the internet but I bet you'd rather have a sale to a low post count person than no sale...

Just my 2penneth.

My thoughts exactly. I do not post that often as I do not think I am anywhere as knowledgeable as people on hear. But I do read the posts to learn. Most of my posts tend to be questions but even then I just search through old posts. Although I also know that what ever you do will upset someone. So I leave it to you.

[Pauly]

Firstly, Woo How! It's coming back! Secondly, although I haven't read the whole thread so don't know if it's already been suggested, but how about limiting the number of sales per week or month, whatever, per member. A limit of one or two items advertised for sale per week/fortnight/month might put off some of the less savory trading that scuppered the last for sale section.

[sbooder]

Sorry, I have been away from the forum for a while and did not know this was going on with the For Sale and subs.

I have not read all the posts on this thread and do not know if anyone else has suggested this, but, what about letting everyone buy from the for sale section but only allow those with at least a 6 month subscription to SGL and at least 500 posts to sell?

It sound harsh, but needs must.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Good news indeed. I have been able to get some really nice EPs through SGL, and was saddened by the closure of the for sale section. Posts per month might indeed be a good indicator, especially if they are not just in the welcome section (saying hi to every new member really racks up the post count, you could even write a script for that).

[hemihaggis]

also name and shame the offending traders ... let us know which traders are abusing the forum and then we can decide to boycott them ..

im sure that will provide an incentive for them not to come here and expect to make a fast buck ,

or we could shoot them.... i salute you mr clarkson

[MalJ]

also name and shame the offending traders ... let us know which traders are abusing the forum and then we can decide to boycott them ..

im sure that will provide an incentive for them not to come here and expect to make a fast buck ,

or we could shoot them.... i salute you mr clarkson

Having read the many comments - this sounds like a pretty good idea. I, like quite a few others on here, don't post that often - so reaching 500 'meaningful' posts myself isn't going to happen - but I do enjoy reading and learning from others knowledge of the subject. I do contribute where possible, but I feel I just don't have the in depth 'knowledge' to respond to some of the posts.

It's a shame that this has happened - but any 'open' forum where people put their faith in others is going to suffer from so called 'traders' trying to make money!!

[Mr TamiyaCowboy]

maybe a feedback section in each sale section.

each member selling a item ,places their name in the feedback section. when a item is sold the purchaser places feedback on the sellers name in the feedback section.

if a member wishes to check a sellers feedback he just visits the feedback section finds the sellers name and makes his/her choice from feedback left from others.

have seen this running on an rc forum i am part of and works fairly well. they also allow name and shame in feedback and seen it used to good effect. they do not suffer from traders as much. but maybe it would help.

[Rols]

Clearly by the amount of traffic to every thread that even touches this subject its a massive pull for the site and would certainly be a loss to the site and the members if the sell section was left for good.. Glad to hear it won't be as I got a few nice bits for sensible money myself.

but I do have a question or two that I can't find an answer to concerning all this trader and profiting business that keeps getting mentioned..?

who does it hurt if people pay the price they want for something they want to own?

why does the site feel that a person buying and selling in the for sale section at the prices people want to pay is a bad thing?

As a resolve to the whole problem could you not limit people to a maximum of 5 or so posts in the sale section a year? And enforce only members of over 12 months and #? Of post are able to use the sell section. Don't have a trade section so it can't be abused as a backdoor sales section and keep it tightly monitored?

forgive my cumbersome question answer attitude but sometimes simple is best, I thought this site was based on reference and members let flee bay deal with traders and tell new members like me what's worth what by Q & A.

have a sale section but make it so tight it squeaks clean...

please don't pull the trigger.

[Creepi]

I joined SGL last year and spent a lot of time searching & researching threads across the site.

"Search is your friend" but it means my post count has been zero (now one), as there are very few new questions for me as a beginner, they have all been asked.

I would love to buy a bargain starter scope (like the ones sometimes linked from the for sale section - which i cannot see due to low post count) but do not wish to flood the boards with meaningless post just to get access to the for sale area.

Consequently I bought binoculars (new) last year and will be getting a 76mm 'cheap punt' of a scope (again new) on the hope it shows enough to get me hooked. I found the recent "Argos eBay bargain" thread very interesting and hope to be as lucky with my cheap punt as the OP of that thread.

If I wait until I can justify a decent 150PL (or similar) as my first scope another few seasons will have passed.

I hope the 'cheap punt' will get me hooked so I can justify a more useful scope in the future.

Looking in the skies with an online starmap (found from a forum thread) I identified a load of stars & constellations yesterday for the first time without even using the binos.

As you can see from above, when I do post it is verbose :-)

I like the idea of a "wanted" section that maybe allows beginners that don't post much to say what they would like to buy secondhand.

Thanks for reading,

Creepi

[sajjjht]

Dont see what the number of posts has to do with a for sale section. Some people just read items/news and dont post much.

[martin20]

Dont see what the number of posts has to do with a for sale section. Some people just read items/news and dont post much.

Seconded!

I've been a member for the last couple of years but, as you can see, my post count is pretty low.

I read new threads most days but don't necessarily feel qualified to participate myself.

I'm sure there are plenty of other members in a similar situation who would be excluded from the For Sale section, just because their post count wasn't high enough - but this doesn't mean we are not respectable forum members.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Seconded!

I've been a member for the last couple of years but, as you can see, my post count is pretty low.

I read new threads most days but don't necessarily feel qualified to participate myself.

I'm sure there are plenty of other members in a similar situation who would be excluded from the For Sale section, just because their post count wasn't high enough - but this doesn't mean we are not respectable forum members.

Fair enough, but what if the rules only apply to buying advanced equipment, rather than beginners' scopes? When selling serious kit to other members, how can we tell genuine members from traders after a cheap deal? What other way do administrators have to judge this?

[Syntarsus]

"Search is your friend" but it means my post count has been zero (now one), as there are very few new questions for me as a beginner, they have all been asked.

I would love to buy a bargain starter scope (like the ones sometimes linked from the for sale section - which i cannot see due to low post count) but do not wish to flood the boards with meaningless post just to get access to the for sale area.

I think your point goes to the heart of the way web forums are used in general. First one can approach them as you have and see them as something like a living book - a great source of information. Like any book or piece of writing the fewest words used to say something is usually better. The less extraneous information there is the easier it is to find what you after.

I have quite a lot of sympathy with this approach and used these forums for a long time without even joining - often ending up here from Google searches. For me it was purely a source of information and as I knew so little about astronomy I felt I had little to contribute anyway.

But the another and quite different reason for forums is to build communities. Used in this way the approach is totally different. It's essential people keep talking to each other so even if it's all been said before it's worth saying again because what is important is not the information itself but the fact people continue to talk to one another. Without constant use forums can slowly die and people move to more lively spaces.

I suspect that a large part of the success of this forum is that it has such high traffic.

Personally I struggle between these two approaches. Mostly I don't post that often but if I do I try to say something that adds to the conversation.

So there you go, even more verbose than your reply and probably not even relevant but I've written it now so will press 'submit'.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

First of all, I am very happy with any member of SGL, regardless of post count. People who just want to read and search are by no means second-class members. After all, if everybody blabbed as much as I do, SGL might run into storage space problems.

However, a number of the people (though not all) objecting to the post-count limits on accessing the new advanced buy/sell section have a post count lower than 50, and have therefore never bought anything from the old buy/sell section. If they had felt the need to buy, no doubt they would have clocked up the posts easily. I would suggest those that did not feel the need to use the old section are not necessarily greatly inconvenienced by the new rules.

[dark star]

I would like to see the for sale section come back, as I love browsing! And buying things of course!

I have bought quite a few things from UK Astronomy Buy and Sell and have never had any problems. I have lost track a bit and can't remember if I ever bought or sold anything on SGL!

However, I am very careful and have mainly bought from people who have posted quite a few times on astronomy websites, such as this one.

I guess someone having quite a lot of posts helps to reassure me.

Hope the issues can be sorted out.

David

[Nova]

Great news. Looking forward to its return. I too think naming the buyer is a good idea. Also 2 for sale boards should work well. could the requirements for the 2nd board as well as being length of membership and total posts also be linked to frequency of posts? If your frequency drops below a certain number of posts per week you lose access to it?

[Kepler22]

As a new member and new to the the hobby ( or maybe the serious users would call it a way of life!), I would just like to add some thoughts. It would be great to be able to buy kit secondhand where you know that it has been looked after and the seller is just looking to upgrade. I can understand the reluctance to sell to traders as this will just push up the prices. I like the suggestion that sellers and buyers declare if they are trade. A two tier system might prove a good idea. BTW great site and full of useful info.

[Yendor]

Im disappointed to see that its been removed because of access by traders. I access the forum every single day but rarely post as Ive not recently had the time to concentrate on my new hobby. I'd only just posted enough to allow access really. I do hope we can get access again soon. I have the greatest of respect for the folk who admin/mod this forum and hope you can come to some sort of solution which fixes the problem. I think maybe the way forward should possibly be able to include trade buyers and sellers provided they play fair and square. Maybe they could be induced to help support this forum in some way?

[S.A.M]

Looking forward to the return of the For Sale section even if it has higher access require, ie longer time on SGL.

Peter

[A McEwan]

Cool - I look forward to the return of this very useful feature.

Ant

[paulhutch]

What's to say that a trader didn't join here 2 years ago and keeps quietly snapping up all the good gear cheaply? Whilst posing as a member. I think the old rules should still apply but a record of the buyers kept and if they buy the same gear over and over he's/She's a trader and ban them. (After all who in their right mind would want multiple scope/lens's or accessory's? LOL........)Joking aside, a record of buyers is the only way you can sort it and maybe give them a limit of what/how many things they can buy.

[Yendor]

What's to say that a trader didn't join here 2 years ago and keeps quietly snapping up all the good gear cheaply? Whilst posing as a member. I think the old rules should still apply but a record of the buyers kept and if they buy the same gear over and over he's/She's a trader and ban them. (After all who in their right mind would want multiple scope/lens's or accessory's? LOL........)Joking aside, a record of buyers is the only way you can sort it and maybe give them a limit of what/how many things they can buy.

Perhaps the easiest way, Good Post I think :)

[keithatrochdale]

How is it all progressing?

Must be getting near completion and testing I would guess?