Fake eyepieces?

[johncbradley1]

Hi guys

I have a small concern.

Ok, so I'm still new to astronomy and I have been wanting an eyepiece that is good for planets. I have read good reviews for the TMB planetary II so I decided I will go with this one, the 7.5mm to be exact. This one here - eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Anyway since my purchase I have read that this could be a FAKE eyepiece because TMB Optical do not list the 7.5mm on their website.

I messaged the eBay user where I purchased this from: "Hi, is this a genuine product from TMB Optical? I ask because TMB don't list the 7.5mm range on their website." and they replied this: "Thanks for your message. I confess I was surprised to see it but it is there on two of my suppliers lists who send us the goods from China where the TMBs are made. We also have a couple of 4.5mm for those who must have the complete set."

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[spaceboy]

Where did you read that it may be a fake ?

[johninderby]

I know that a 7.5mm version was planned by TMB a few years ago, but I've never come across one before.

They're on this website

http://www.nipon-scope.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=116

And also on this US website

http://www.owlastronomy.com/planetary.htm

John

[Mark in Macc]

This is an interesting one. John is correct about the product not being listed on the Burgess Optical or TMB Optical web sites. It is also not listed on a number of other retailer's web sites including Scopes and Skies or High Point Scientific in the US. It looks genuine from the picture.

[John]

I've posted this on your other thread:

http://stargazerslounge.com/2029030-post8.html

[NGC404]

Just seen where you can get them for around £19 + vat each as unbranded

Then stick a TMB sticker on them and ............. cher ching

[johncbradley1]

I've posted this on your other thread:

http://stargazerslounge.com/2029030-post8.html

Do you think I should send it back once I receive it?

[John]

Just seen where you can get them for around £19 + vat each as unbranded

Then stick a TMB sticker on them and ............. cher ching

You will have broken the law though

[johncbradley1]

Just seen where you can get them for around £19 + vat each as unbranded

Then stick a TMB sticker on them and ............. cher ching

Can you give the link?

[John]

Do you think I should send it back once I receive it?

If the eyepiece works OK then I would probably keep it.

I notice the seller rather confusingly describes it as a "wide angle Plössl eyepiece" The TMB Planetaries are not a plossl design.

The sellers don't have much control over what the Chinese manufacturers actually make and ship so whats probably happened is that this lot have 7.5mm stamped on them. It may well be exactly the same as a 7mm in reality.

I'm not sure that they should be using the TMB branding but that's a legal issue that's beyond my knowledge.

[johncbradley1]

If the eyepiece works OK then I would probably keep it.

I notice the seller rather confusingly describes it as a "wide angle Plössl eyepiece" The TMB Planetaries are not a plossl design.

The sellers don't have much control over what the Chinese manufacturers actually make and ship so whats probably happened is that this lot have 7.5mm stamped on them. It may well be exactly the same as a 7mm in reality.

I'm not sure that they should be using the TMB branding but that's a legal issue that's beyond my knowledge.

The thing is, I've never tried any other EP other than ones that my scope come with, so I won't know if it's going to be worth the £37 I paid for it :/

[John]

If the new eyepiece is not a noticeable improvement over the ones supplied with your scope then you should return it promptly for a refund. But I expect it will be fine.

On the whole topic of these eyepieces, I found this thread from this forum from last year (don't let the title put you off your purchase though - read the thread through ):

http://stargazerslounge.com/discussions-scopes-whole-setups/112300-tmb-planetary-eyepieces-warning.html

[johncbradley1]

If the new eyepiece is not a noticeable improvement over the ones supplied with your scope then you should return it promptly for a refund. But I expect it will be fine.

On the whole topic of these eyepieces, I found this thread from this forum from last year (don't let the title put you off your purchase though - read the thread through ):

http://stargazerslounge.com/discussions-scopes-whole-setups/112300-tmb-planetary-eyepieces-warning.html

Thanks. So basically they are made at the same factory / or made identically the same, but just unofficially uses TMB's stamp?

[John]

Thanks. So basically they are made at the same factory / or made identically the same, but just unofficially uses TMB's stamp?

A quick search using Alibaba.com finds 3 chinese companies that appear to manufacture this eyepiece design to the same spec and they all include a 7.5mm in their range.

Perhaps it's best to refer to all of these as TMB planetary clones.

[spaceboy]

Nowt wrong with the clones either

[hunterknox]

Nowt wrong with the clones either

Except perhaps ethically.

[spaceboy]

Except perhaps ethically.

Sorry... force of habit. I meant the TMB "designed" (clones)1.25" Eyepieces

[NGC404]

A quick search using Alibaba.com finds 3 chinese companies that appear to manufacture this eyepiece design to the same spec and they all include a 7.5mm in their range.

Perhaps it's best to refer to all of these as TMB planetary clones.

Loads of ebay sellers buy unbranded from Alibaba, then

adjust the title/description accordingly (alledgedly)

Classic ones are the sellers that buy in plastic single lens barlows

and then describe them as achromatic doublets

[NGC404]

Loads of ebay sellers buy unbranded from Alibaba, then

adjust the title/description accordingly

In other words , grey imports

"A grey market or gray market also known as parallel market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer"

Classic ones are the sellers that buy in plastic single lens barlows

and then describe them as achromatic doublets

[hunterknox]

Classic ones are the sellers that buy in plastic single lens barlows

and then describe them as achromatic doublets

The example you give would be (illegal) misrepesentation rather than grey importing.

In the TMB case it is the (cloned) product itself which the manufacturer has not authorised. The distribution channels are a side issue really. I'm guessing it's a case for patent law.

[johncbradley1]

OK, I received the EP today.

Can someone show a photo of a genuine one? It looks pretty decent, I must say. I'm about to go and try it out... I'll update you guys later

[johncbradley1]

[Capricorn]

Well it looks identical to the 2 TMB II's I have, not in 7.5mm format.

£37 is a little less then Sky's the Limit sell them at so the price is about right also.

Basically I can see little wrong, other the fact that TMB/Burgess don't list them.

Equally when Tom died there were arguements over what he had licenced as TMB II eyepieces. I had the idea that he wasn't out to corner the market but get good eyepieces out there. When he died the accountants and lawyers took over and they were looking to maximise the estate.

Just wondering if this was one of his designs that the manufacturer could prove he had licenced to them or was subsequently licenced and for whatever reason offical site has decided to not sell/display.

[johncbradley1]

Well it looks identical to the 2 TMB II's I have, not in 7.5mm format.

£37 is a little less then Sky's the Limit sell them at so the price is about right also.

Basically I can see little wrong, other the fact that TMB/Burgess don't list them.

Equally when Tom died there were arguements over what he had licenced as TMB II eyepieces. I had the idea that he wasn't out to corner the market but get good eyepieces out there. When he died the accountants and lawyers took over and they were looking to maximise the estate.

Just wondering if this was one of his designs that the manufacturer could prove he had licenced to them or was subsequently licenced and for whatever reason offical site has decided to not sell/display.

I asked a different seller on ebay and he said

"Hi,

Thanks for your interest.

This is TMB II eyepiece and they are the same eyepieces as you've seen in the other ebay shops.

I got them direct from the factory as OEM products.

And also I have sold over 15-20 of them and I have never received a complaint from my customers .

You can return it to me if you are not happy about the quality of the eyepiece and I will do full refund.

Regards."

The build quality seems to be great, but to be honest I could't really see more detail of Jupiter compared to the 10mm that I got with my telescope, it was just a bit more magnified. Perhaps it's because my scope needs collimating?

[Mark in Macc]

The EP looks exactly like mine, except the number. The build quality is good and you can vary the eye relief by screwing the body barrel up or down (don't unscrew the very bottom though!). The seeing might not be great tonight. I used a 130P for about 12 months and they are good starter scopes with decent mirrors but not ideal for high magnification observing due to the fairly short focal length. As previously mentioned, you might want to consider a catadioptric design if you are mainly interested in planetary observing.