n00b finally starting out properly

[Akyra]

As I am still learning, I am still asking questions that are probably obvious, but there goes anyway...

With the barlow and the 15mm/25mm eyepieces, will I be able to see Nebulas and Galaxies as long as I know where to look? I rented 2 astronomy dvd's and one shows what you should be able to see during each month, and with the help of Stellarium (finally setup the way I like it) I want to starting DSO spotting.

I got quite excited when I saw, with my own eyes, Ursa Major last night in the sky above me. And after watching those dvds and fiddling with Stellarium, I wanted to go back outside and try find some DSO's.

[barkis]

Don't use too much magnification on Nebula and star clusters. These objects by enlarge are faint, and too much mag. will not show them very well.

When observing them, try to use a low power eyepiece initially, and if you feel the need to magnify the image you are looking at, then increase the magnification a small step at a time.

Ron.

[Akyra]

Will more detail only be visible through Astrophotography? Do observers just find what they think is the DSO in the eyepiece, track it and keep the exposure open for as long as possible not knowing what they will see when the image is saved?

[John]

Will more detail only be visible through Astrophotography? Do observers just find what they think is the DSO in the eyepiece, track it and keep the exposure open for as long as possible not knowing what they will see when the image is saved?

Astrophotography can pick up much more detail that the eye as the image can be allowed to build up gradually over time and in this digital age can be layered, stacked, filtered and enhanced in all sorts of ways that your eye can't compete with.

That said, I let others get on with the imaging while I get a kick out of finding these faint, ellusive and distant objects and viewing them using my eyes and scope. Your 8 inch scope and a modest selection of eyepieces (which you are already most of the way towards) will show you 1000's of objects but it takes time to work out where they are, how to find them and the best way to view them. The more you look the more you will see and the more time you spend the more your technique will improve, just like any other hobby.

John

[Akyra]

I will keep trying, I'm sure that once I spot my first object I'll be on my way to many others!

[MartinB]

Try some of the brighter DSOs 1st - M13 is a good target which is visible with binoculars or even naked eye at a very dark site. Other good targets are the open clusters - The Beehive (M44) is worth hunting for. A bit more of a challenge would be M81 and 82 seen in the same field of view - good for developing observing skills. You should be able to make out the distinctly different shapes of the 2 galaxies however it does come as a bit of a shock to discover just how faint these dim fuzzies are. You need well adapted night vision. Try practicing averted vision - focussing to one side of the target.

Are you going to star hop or use a red dot finder/telrad.

[barkis]

Will more detail only be visible through Astrophotography? Do observers just find what they think is the DSO in the eyepiece, track it and keep the exposure open for as long as possible not knowing what they will see when the image is saved?

Akyra, are you using a film camera for imaging, or do you also have a dslr or perhaps a ccd camera?. If you are using film only, then your best bet is to stick to imaging the moon and the brighter planets. I am not trying to dent your obvious enthusiasm, but there is a lot of understanding of what is required in order to get an image of a deep sky object. You are right in saying you need to track it, but you will not be able to use the object as the tracking target. It will be too faint and diffuse for that purpose, so you would need to find a suitable guide star which would need to be quite close to the object you are imaging. You would need to expose from a few minutes to perhaps 15 minutes minimum, depending on your film speed, and the magnitude of the object. All this whilst keeping a guide star bang on the crosshair of your guide telescope. Very accurate polar alignment is a must. I won't go on any longer here, but this is an indication of at least in part of what deep sky film photography demands. It can be a daunting task, but if your fortitude and stickability are as present as your enthusiasm, you will succeed at it I'm sure.

Ron.

[Akyra]

I've just been out again tonight seeing as though its fairly clear. I spotted The Big Dipper straight away up in the sky, thing is it was right above my head but that didnt put me off, i just got a short chair and pointed my dob straight up and did strain a little to look through the finderscope.

To my eventual 'giving up, I've had enough' I couldnt locate the constellation in the finderscope, It's so hard when things are back to front and upside down, can anyone give me some advice on spotting things that are the wrong way around?

I'm getting really frustrated a) no knowing what I am doing not being able to find stuff c) my sister turning her bedroom light on

[Akyra]

I just looked in Stellarium and thought what the hell Ill go back out. I found the constellation of Auriga above Venus and tried to find M37 and actually managed to follow the constellation backwards and upside down, but when it came to locating the object I couldnt for the life of me find it! I thought I might have seen it so switched to the 15mm then to the barlow and 15mm but it seemed to just be a star to me.

I really need help at the Star Party to understand just what I will see when looking at DSO's

[barkis]

Akyra, you are seriously lacking a low power eyepiece. What E/P's do you have?. You seem to be making life difficult for yourself.

You have rushed into astronomy with a lot of expectation. Lots of good images you find on this site, and in books, on the whole bear no resemblance to what you see through the scope with your eyes. In fact, a lot of them can be judged as pretty disappointing.

But astronomy is a progressive pastime. If you set your expectations too high, you will destroy your potential as an observer.

Don't rush into things, take your time, and above all develop patience, because it will be your closest ally.

Look forward to the upcoming star party, where you will gain a lot of hands on experience, and valuable information that will stand you in good stead. Above all, be prepared to listen carefully to the answers when you ask questions. Don't knock yourself out young man, time is on your side, don't try to cram too much into your head too quickly. This is just advice I am giving you, not a lecture.

This hobby can be serious, but above all, you must also enjoy.

Ron.

[Astroman]

You can not see an entire constellation in a finder scope. At least not one as large as the Big Dipper. You need to focus on an object that is close to one of the stars in the dipper and hunt with your finder scope from there.

As Barkis advises, patience is essential in this hobby. The learning curve is steep enough without pushing yourself too hard. Take your time and go one object at a time.

[Akyra]

Thankyou both for your excellent advice, I just get a little bit too excited sometimes and when I think I can find something but cant, i disappoint myself, but I gotta just take my take I guess. I have been offered a pair in bino's for nothing, so I think one night this week I will just lie down on the grass in my back garden and look up with them, try to learn a little of the sky.

I will be all eyes and ears at the Star Party, I want to learn.

EDIT : Could I see something like this when looking through my 25mm EP? The problem I have is that I dont know what I am expecting to see, because images are misleading representations.

[barkis]

Thankyou both for your excellent advice, I just get a little bit too excited sometimes and when I think I can find something but cant, i disappoint myself, but I gotta just take my take I guess. I have been offered a pair in bino's for nothing, so I think one night this week I will just lie down on the grass in my back garden and look up with them, try to learn a little of the sky.

I will be all eyes and ears at the Star Party, I want to learn.

EDIT : Could I see something like this when looking through my 25mm EP? The problem I have is that I dont know what I am expecting to see, because images are misleading representations.

Good advice will always be available to you on SGL Akyra, and there will always be a response to any question you may ask.

The link you provided is showing an image of the globular cluster in Hercules known as Messier 13, or M13. It was imaged by Dazza 1639.

If the scope you were using is a C8, with your 25mm eyepiece, then that particular object is a fairly easy one to see. Once you have it centred in your lower power eyepiece, then carefully change to a higher power E/P, which will perhaps resolve more of the stars for you. Don't take the magnification too high, or the image will dim too much and make it a less attractive object. Before you step up the mag. advance your telescope a little if you don't have a drive. That will prevent the object from drifting out of your FOV whilst you are changing to a higher power E/P.

When you have finished observing the object. And I am assuming it was M13 you were looking at. Before you move your scope from where it is pointing. Take a look with your naked eye at the stars surrounding the area you are looking at. Sight along the top of your telescope, and take note of what bright stars are around M13., and where in relation to those stars, M13 is located. Make yourself a little sketch, and later indoors when you have some leisure time, compare your sketch with a chart of Hercules, and see how accurate your sketch was in relation to that. This is a good way to learn object location. Keep a permanent record, and if you persist with this, you will become a supreme expert in finding object that are invisible to the eye, and you will astound your friends...

Akyra, I KID YOU NOT. So make your next time out with your scope, the first night of your new discipline.

Good Viewing. Ron.

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Akyra, in a word yes. M13 will look very much like that when you find it. You ought to be able to see it in the finder as a fuzzy bit so if your finder and 'scope are aligned you will get it fairly easily.

Captain Chaos