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Beginners: what do you find hard about locating objects?


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Hi,

I have been toying with the idea of making some webpages showing beginners how to find 10 or 20 of the easy, show-piece, deep space objects. I am anticipating something along the lines of what's in Turn Left at Orion, but incorporating richer visual directions rather than relying mostly on written text. I want to emphasise how to best use a reflex sight such as Telrad for naked-eye star-hopping. The idea would be to teach people the skills to find any object at all by using some of the more prominent ones as examples. However, I see no point in reinventing the wheel so could people who may be interested please answer some questions?

1. Is it worth it, or is Turn Left at Orion already more than good enough?

2. Is there already a good website which I've not found yet?

3. If interested, what do you find hardest about locating DSOs? Is it finding the constellation or finding the right spot within a constellation? What would have done differently in the guides you've already seen.

4. Do you use a red-dot finder or a magnifying finderscope? What aperture is your scope?

Thanks!

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That is a cracking Idea.

I am not exactly a newbie but I still have trouble locating DSO's.

I think the main problem I have found is not knowing exactly what I am supposed to be looking for.

Like so many people I have seen these amazing photos on here and expected to see something similar through the scope.

Time, looking and asking questions have put me straight on this point but it is still I think the biggest hurdle for a newbie to grasp.

If you were to do this I think along with the navigation pointers you should include a discription or photos of what to expect to see when you arrive at your destination.

I wish you all the best with it.

Graham

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That is a cracking Idea.

I am not exactly a newbie but I still have trouble locating DSO's.

I think the main problem I have found is not knowing exactly what I am supposed to be looking for.

Like so many people I have seen these amazing photos on here and expected to see something similar through the scope.

Time, looking and asking questions have put me straight on this point but it is still I think the biggest hurdle for a newbie to grasp.

If you were to do this I think along with the navigation pointers you should include a discription or photos of what to expect to see when you arrive at your destination.

I wish you all the best with it.

Graham

I agree,a realistic photo (in size and colour,although i know this will be shades of grey).Beginners might not realise they have found it because it doesn't look like the photo's in a book! Youve got a great idea there though that could help me and alot of other beginners.Many thanks:)
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Gets my vote! I have Turn left at Orion but a convenient and well written guide accessible via phone or tablet would be most welcome. Part of the problem for me is that there is so much out there. I will be watching this thread with interest. I can't really comment on ease of finding DSO yet as don't have a scope just yet and can't tear my bins away from Jupiter!

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I'm not a beginner but I think this is a great idea too :)

Illustrating what some of the objects really look like is a real challenge though as what you see at any particular time depends substantially on the viewing conditions pertaining at the time / location - any illustrations will need a health warning - "your mileage may vary" !.

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I'm not a beginner but I think this is a great idea too :)

Illustrating what some of the objects really look like is a real challenge though as what you see at any particular time depends substantially on the viewing conditions pertaining at the time / location - any illustrations will need a health warning - "your mileage may vary" !.

Ha-Ha yes it would be a big ask wouldn't it? Maybe a general quick guide/reference describing as to what you would reasonablyexpect to see with a certain aperture eg-small and fuzzy blob or something a little more detailed with bigger scopes,or give a reasonable size comparison on each planet with scope size,something like a reference table maybe.Probably would be a big ask though.
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No, this stuff isn't a terribly big ask. I was initially thinking of focusing on directions with one or two sketches of what the objects look like. The comments so far suggest that eyepiece impressions are at least as important as locating the object. Indeed they will help to locate the object. That's useful to know. It appears, therefore, that people would rather have a lot of information on a small number of objects than a little information on a lot of objects. Is that right?

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sounds a good idea. im quite new at this game and i like alot of novices have a smallish appeture(90mm) refractor in my case . so when a book shows great snowballs of clusters ,its a little frustrating because your never quite sure if youve found the same thing because it looks like a smudged star.

also the idea of the recticle sights are good also.

my biggest problem is setting circles. hate the things ,cant grasp the concept at all. dont know if other novices feel the same ?

thats why t.l.a.o does well, keeps things simple.

good luck in your venture, id certainly use your pages...

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No, this stuff isn't a terribly big ask. I was initially thinking of focusing on directions with one or two sketches of what the objects look like. The comments so far suggest that eyepiece impressions are at least as important as locating the object. Indeed they will help to locate the object. That's useful to know. It appears, therefore, that people would rather have a lot of information on a small number of objects than a little information on a lot of objects. Is that right?
Yes i think that would be right.Probably the biggest let-down is when beginners see pictures in books taken from hubble then buy a scope and have a wake up call,because their relatively small scope will image nothing like what they've seen in photo's.Also more easily seen objects should be the first things they see and more difficult ones come later with experience and a better understanding of things.Personally achieving the whole messier list is not a priority for me as i want to start easy and move forward at my own pace.
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Umadog, very good idea. One of my most read books is Stephen O'Meara's Messier Objects. Main reason is that it uses fairly average quality black and white photos, plus sketches made in a four inch refractor from very dark sites. The result is that what is shown is fairly representative of 8 or 10" scopes in our sort of skies.

If you were able to do something similar online then it would be an excellent way of showing people what they can realistically see.

Look forward to seeing it :-)

Cheers

Stu

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

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You guys have been positive so I will start work. It could take a while as I want to get the visuals right and I'm supposed to have a regular job too :) Please continue to post any thoughts on this thread. I will take everything you say on board.

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You guys have been positive so I will start work. It could take a while as I want to get the visuals right and I'm supposed to have a regular job too :) Please continue to post any thoughts on this thread. I will take everything you say on board.
Thanks alot umadog,we'll certainly appreciate the effort and work that it will take to do it and we'll keep on posting other thoughts and idea's too! Cheers!:)
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I am limited to bins, I have no problem finding constellations most of the time, but finding objects within the constellations can be tough. The biggest problem is looking up and planning a route with the naked eye, then trying to follow that route through the bins where all of a sudden there are 20-30x more stars in view.

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great idea

the main problem i have is....

i can see where i want to point the scope in the sky, but getting the finder scope to the same area is tricky!

e.g. i know where the owl cluster is, but i can't put the finder scope on it for anything !

probably just need more practice !

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This is a great idea and I would definitely find it useful.

As you said in one of your earlier posts, good detail on less objects is the way to go - can always expand later.

It has been said in several posts recognising what you have found is equally as hard as finding it in the first place. A good personal example, a few nights ago I was going through the open clusters in Cassiopeia and found some of them quite tricky to positively identify

Good luck with your project.

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I accept that I am new to the hobby and have limited experience and aperture. What i find happens to me, is i go out with a good plan in mind, and I soon get a few 'misses' and my plan falls apart. Where TLAO fails in my opinion (don't get me wrong - i still like it very much) is the logical stepping point from one observation to the next. I think 'The Illustrated Guide to Astronomical Wonders' has got that bit right in that it encourages the reader to explore the same part of the sky and has mostly coherent links between each observation. But, it has many objects that are out of reach of the beginner. This is where i see a gap between the two approaches and a need for something in between.

I read some of the brilliant observation reports on this forum, and there are clearly well thought out plans in them. I'm sure it will come with time and experience, but for now at least for me its a quantum leap.

Just my thoughts based on my own personal experience, not sure if other noobs like me have similar problems?

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Just What I need!,been struggling here since i have bought the new 12 lightbridge, almost impossible here, even when i use google earth i still have trouble, sounds great, It may save me from going back to only a etx auto guiding scope. thanks,,john

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I use manual dobs in the main. the one item that changed my ability to point a scope was a Telrad. when used with a RACI finder plus a good map, I can usually get in the right place and then it's a matter of whether I can see the object given the conditions.

I agree that a sketch showing what an object will look like at a given magnification and aperture is a great aid, although of course, your skies may vary :)

perhaps also a guide to when things are available, a monthly checklist if you will. plus a note of where the constellation is in relation to the well known ones would help newbies.

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yes a nice short a practical list of the easiest/best looking dso`s , possibly by order of easiest to spot , m45-m42-m13- ect and so on , and so forth ,

i know when i started i jotted down a small list (which i always return to !) , and these formed the basis of my astronomy knowlegde , a few messier some binary stars , nebulas and clusters , i think i had a practical list of about 15 or 20 objects which i could name and find by myself .

i could view all of these with a sw 127 mak . i will give you my list if you want it tomorow (cause i in bed and warm , and the list is my gentlemans retreat ie shed at bottom of garden and its pouring with rain !! :)

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i wonder if any of carols sketches could be of use? (sketcher from sky at night mag) im sure she is on here somewhere too

a sketch and detail at the side, location, star hops etc etc

yeah, i would go for that :)

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Biggest problem I tend to have with bins particularly, is suddenly you see a whole different starfield and sometimes not sure if I have hooked onto the right 'guide star' (as shown in a book) as a base for finding objects and/or star hopping.

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Great idea Umadog. the hardest thing i have found so far is locking on to the correct guide star with my finder to begin my starhop. i can see the star with my naked eye but when i point the scope in the general direction i can see several stars through the finder. its just a matter of trying to orientate my chart to the sky. im not sure if there is a way to make this easier but would be great if there was probably just a case of practice practice practice

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I think it's a great idea :)

Dunno if it's been suggested but if it was in month order so folks can go outside with their description and see a current object would be useful. You can cover a whole year with on average two objects a month :)

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