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ncjunk

Neutrinos moving faster than light?

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So if the following is proved correct-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

Could this imply that the speed limit in relativity is not the speed of light but a higher value?

And could light therefore have a slight mass? Would that account for the difference?

I hope this proves to be true, it will be interesting if it is.

Edited by ncjunk

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oh this could put the cat just past the pigeons

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My money is on systematic error...

I agree on it probably being an error but i would be damn interesting if its correct and repeated elsewhere.

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15,000 measurements. I'd not bet on it being an error.

People used to say we'd never break the speed of sound, the world was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth, etc. Why should we be surprised when we find out that the speed of light is no different?

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You think thats fast, somebody mentioned the words 'free' and 'doughnuts' at work and the stampede gotta be c² easy... :glasses2:

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15,000 measurements. I'd not bet on it being an error.

People used to say we'd never break the speed of sound, the world was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth, etc. Why should we be surprised when we find out that the speed of light is no different?

The number of measurements would be irrelavent if they all suffer from the same fundamental error. But independantly experimentation verifying the results would certainly help.

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But then there have been measurements of neutrinos from supernova 1987a that were shown to be moving close to the speed of light....so a bit at odds with this anouncment.

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My money is on systematic error...
15,000 measurements. I'd not bet on it being an error.

I would; I would bet all my assets on error(s).

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My cautionary note from the other thread on this:

There was an interesting blog post from Tommasso Dorigo (physicist working with the CMS experiment at CERN) which he then removed - and apparently will repost

http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/blog/new_results_opera_due_tomorrow-82907

My understanding (and memory!) of the removed posting was that the detection timing was very well understood, but maybe the production wasn't and some neutrinos were emitted earlier than thought. So worth watching that for thoughts from an expert - that blog and Résonaances are both excellent sources for current results in particle physics.

Some more in Luboš Motl's blog

http://motls.blogspot.com/2011/09/it...erluminal.html

Edited by Ben Ritchie

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You stated the 1987a info quite nicely in the other thread as well. But its started a lot of debate everywhere this.

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But its started a lot of debate everywhere this.

It's bound to, i'd just caution against believing much of what the mainstream media say at this point - the Beeb didn't even manage to get the name of the experiment right at first. From personal experience i'd say the press aren't very good at interpreting things like this.

I'd hang on until the results drop out from embargo tomorrow - which is why I assume Dorigo had to remove them, as he's funded the same way as the experiment - and see what the experts say.

Edited by Ben Ritchie

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I would also bet heavily on it being some form of systematic error.

But wouldn't it be fun if it were true?

Here's hoping for independent tests soon...

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15,000 measurements. I'd not bet on it being an error.

People used to say we'd never break the speed of sound, the world was flat, the sun revolved around the Earth, etc. Why should we be surprised when we find out that the speed of light is no different?

...well, nobody sensible ever said the Earth was flat. It's an historical myth.

The difference with the speed of light as an absolute is that it is based upon fundamental principle.

Sadly I think this will probably be systematic error but I do think we need a better theory of time.

Olly

Edited by ollypenrice

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I hope this is not an error. I came on to make a thread on this but you guys are all over it already.

So lets say it's real. What will it mean?

A complete overhaul and start from scratch or just a slight adaptation to what we already theorise? Let's face it, we know we don't have a complete understanding so I see no reason why it's not plausible unless you use Einsteinien physics which to be fair would have just been thrown out of the window. Fundamental principle may no longer be fundamental.

That's my question I guess, IF true are the implications as big as I suspect they may be?

Edited by Pibbles

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A complete overhaul and start from scratch or just a slight adaptation to what we already theorise?

Pretty much breaks relativity, I think - as a Physicist i'd LOVE to live in times when everything changes (cf. the early 20th century with relativity and quantum physics) and i'm always rather baffled when people make claims that the "professionals" want to maintain the scientific orthodoxy, in general it's the reverse, but the standard for proof is pretty high in this respect. Personally I share Phil Plait's disclaimer entirely

However, the devil's in the details, and this isn't my field, so I'll be very curious to see how the pros in this discipline react to the paper.
Edited by Ben Ritchie

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Regarding the "six sigma" nature of the effect, this is always a topic of debate - either it's a real event standing far outside the random noise level, or it's a sign of systematic effects outside your statistics. For example, on the 6th of september the Swiss frank underwent a "20 sigma" event

FT Alphaville A Swiss “sigma” event

If the price movements were independent and Gaussian a 20 sigma event would simply never happen. In reality the explanation is simple, the Swiss central bank pegged rates.

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Calm down and just remember cold fusion... Independent verification is everything.

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Yeah we know...but its nice to discuss things and see info like the sigma event, see above.

Thats why i posted this here rather than in the lounge

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Actually - should neutrinos travel slower the the speed of light? I thought they had a very minuscule mass?

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I have a couple of questions , now that we can travel faster then the speed of light, I will build a vehicle, pod, or a spaceship that can go faster than the speed of light. So what would happen if i pointed it towards empty space and blasted off, if i go faster than the speed of light, would i disappear? Would i get to my destination before i left. Does this now mean its safe to go into a black hole what are the implications? Does this mean teleportation is possible?

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I have a couple of questions , now that we can travel faster then the speed of light, I will build a vehicle, pod, or a spaceship that can go faster than the speed of light.

You'd struggle to build anything out of neutrinos, they don't make for good building materials!

So what would happen if i pointed it towards empty space and blasted off, if i go faster than the speed of light, would i disappear?

I guess so - if the acceleration didn't squish you. However without invoking relativity, as this is all new anyway, I guess after you'd gone a meter, the light from this would come towards us, and we'd see you there, but not when we'd expect to see you.

Would i get to my destination before i left. Does this now mean its safe to go into a black hole what are the implications? Does this mean teleportation is possible?

You wouldn't get to your destination before you left. Say you went to the sun, which is 8 light minutes away, and went so faster than light, you might get there in 7 minutes. So you'd be there 7 minutes after you left. However from earth we'd see you arrive a minute before you should.

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You wouldn't get to your destination before you left. Say you went to the sun' date=' which is 8 light minutes away, and went so faster than light, you might get there in 7 minutes. So you'd be there 7 minutes after you left. However from earth we'd see you arrive a minute before you should.[/quote']

I would have thought that for him he would arrive at the Sun instantly and that we would see him arrive 8 minutes later?

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