Ancient aliens

[davew]

What's also interesting is what these programme makers leave out.

Pyramids of the world tend to look similar from the outside. Differing civilisations tended to build their structures in different ways. Massive stones, mud baskets, large pebbles etc in unconnected technology for seemingly unconnected reasons.

What's even more interesting is the Aliens. Technology way beyond our understanding travelling vast distances, probably over many generations, all to show us how to stack stones. Then they go home. You've got to love them for it.

[ronin]

Lets see, an alien race travels across billions of miles and they teach us to put big rocks in holes in the ground.

What a waste of a trip.

Exactly what was it about putting big rocks in holes in the ground that advanced us so much?

Teaching us to develop/produce metals more efficently would have been useful. Just a little bit of what to mix with what, and how to get a higher temperature and we would actually have advanced. But rocks in holes? I just don't get.

[Space Bat]

Did they move huge chunks of rocks - or did they cast them in situ? There is new evidence that suggest that the Egyptians cast these blocks using a now unknown process...

Obviously there are debunkers to this new found theory...sticking with tens of thousands of slaves cutting blocks from solid rock faces and shipping them down the Nile and hurling them into place.

But I think this is shifting to the belief skilled well paid workers were present building this stuff - with an onsite camp of medics, dentists - and all the mod cons for such a venture - as we now do today when undertaking a massive construction project.

Difficult to say as I wasn't there

[Hawkpalmer]

As I understand it and from what this program was saying is basically:

Pharaohs for example were sun worshipers then a alien space craft landed for whatever reason I dont know and passed on info. These Egyptians then built these sites ect in the aliens honour in hope they will come back and they saw them as their god. The program says some of these sites were built as landing sites as they did come back, lol they also showed drawings and carvings of what looks like the "grey" type alien and a circular shape next to it. Similar drawings and carvings have been found in various other areas of the earth where these sites are ect.

Also as I understand it the Egyptians believed Ra was there maker/god and once they died they believed they had several challenges to complete to do with how they lived their life on earth and if they passed these tests they went onto Ra and a good afterlife but if not they went to hell.

How much of that is true I don't know but considering how insignificant we are in the universe is it a bad thing to assume we are not alone weather that be some kind of micro organism on a distant planet or a higher intellengant life form than us humans??

My knowledge of religion is pretty limited but don't all religions claim that their messiah came from a God??

[Stagman]

And nobody's mentioned Erik Von Daniken? ......... Oh dear, I just did

Even several thousand years ago people would have been intelligent enough to understand Aliens! They would have recorded the event to such an extent that even now we would be talking about the visit........ and so we are

[Earl]

Its a very interesting series that goes to some amazing places.

But the whole thing is just based about turning a 3 letter word in to a 5 letter word. Which from one point of view is exactly the same thing.

never be amazed at what motivated people, be they thousands of years in the past can achieve with lots of hard graft.

[JohnnyD333]

You are talking about "Coral Castle" in Florida where a 100lbs man built the only monolithic structure in the United States dedicated to his bride who never came to the US to marry him. He worked by himself, moved 20 ton coral rock by himself, and wrote a theory on magnetic poles. He claimed to know the secrets of the Egyptians, his name was Edward Leedskalnin and here is a link to his site.

Coral Castle Museum

Im not necessarily a huge fan of the ancient astronaut theory, but it bothers me that archaeologists are so confident in their theories about pyramid building. The idea that Egyptians quarried 80 ton solid pieces of granite with round rocks and no modern tools is absurd. Granite is one of the hardest and most difficult rocks to work with. How do you cut out the underside of the rock once you supposedly dug out the shape, with round rocks???? Then, the Egyptians placed these solid granite slaps on wooden boats and moved them up the Nile River? You need a pretty big boat to carry a solid 80 ton granite rock. And lastly, they rolled these granite pieces across tree trunks to the pyramid. Where did all this wood come from in the middle of Egypt, from what I understand the trees that are there are not strong enough to do this, let alone any tree. And the newest theory is that the workers were not slaves but servants who were paid and worked for periods of time on the pyramid. Thats acceptable, but how do you feed and provide water for thousands of people everyday in the middle of the desert in Egypt? If you have 10,000 people working in one area, in ancient Egypt, that is a lot of food and water to keep up with.

Im sorry for ranting but anyone who claims to know how those pyramids were built needs to look things over again. If you really believe what your told by today's archaeologists, go buy a piece of granite and try to carve it with round rocks and no modern tools. If its too difficult, just try carving your name on the rock without modern tools. Whether aliens were here or not who knows, but methods were used in ancient times that were lost over time. The precision, grandeur, and difficulty of these monolithic structures is way too incredible for such simple explanations

[Sp@ce_d]

It is an interesting series... I find the archaeology very interesting.. I can't take the guys seriously though. I mean, if I where making a credible program I would have toned down the big hair, false tan and blindingly white teeth a tad

There's a hell of a lot we don't seem to give past civilisations credit for. For instance the Romans were more advanced with sanitation 2000 years ago than we were in the 18th century!

[JohnnyD333]

He gets more and more tan as the show goes on. It is pretty funny and I don't think he is very credible. But it is truly amazing how these structures are built and it is an idea I love to ponder along with space and physics.

[Nexus 6]

Try and get a copy of Richard Cohen's book Chasing the Sun. It covers pretty much everything you've asked there, plus a lot more. A very readable book, it is simply a rough history of mankind's interest in the sun.

Of course, he devotes a large part of the book to your questions, so I would take more than a few paragraphs to summarise!

just started reading this, has been an enjoyable read so far and is definitely worth a look. as has this thread.

[AztecastroMcJ]

yeh seen this aswell

thought it was usual alien pyramid thing but there was something very interesting and Not Ancient, i've never seen before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle

the main things that stood out was all astronmical instruments guy had built from coral

the crescent moon rocking chairs looked great

also few quotes from progamme and wikipedia that stood out

The Coral Castle site states that "if anyone ever questioned Ed about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well." He also stated that he had "discovered the secrets of the pyramids", which of course could be interpreted in either esoteric or engineering terms.

definetly glad i watched it and would be great place to visit i imagine

how did he do it ? and what secret did he discover relating to pyramids ? and what was in the black box that was never found but seen in pictures ?

annoyingly no-one seems to know

James

[rabbithutch]

The pseudo-documentary aside, here is a site I ran across some years ago. I found it interesting.

How To Do It

[davew]

Again, interesting. I didn't know about Coral Castle.

Let's pretend, if we can, that it was pure effort and nothing supernatural or Alien. One man - 28 years - home made tools etc. Massive blocks moved and built.

Egypt - hundreds or even thousands of men - all the money you could wish to throw at a job - some of the finest tradesmen the world has seen - Military know how to feed everyone - Navy. Errr no tools ?? Doesn't add up in my mind.

I'm convinced. Must have been Aliens.

[AztecastroMcJ]

i think some lost building methods is more likely, the magnets energy link is interesting

if Ed said he discovered secrets of Aliens then maybe i would have turned off lol

but he said he discovered secrets of the pyramids

[JohnnyD333]

The idea of aliens is always interesting to me. But I just dont understand why aliens would come here with such advanced technology and hide their existance. Wouldn't they want us to know they were here. Instead, we get riddles and vague pictures written in caves. I believe in aliens, Im just not too sure they ever came here.

As for the pyramids and monolithic structures, as Ive stated earlier, there is too much we still do not understand, especially about past civilizations and science. Did aliens help build these, I doubt it. But I certainly dont believe we used primitive methods to do it. People like to refer to the Aztecs and the Egyptians as ancient civilizations, I refer to them as advanced civilizations.

[Macavity]

The idea that Egyptians quarried 80 ton solid pieces of granite with round rocks and no modern tools is absurd. Granite is one of the hardest and most difficult rocks to work with. ces across tree trunks to the pyramid. Where did all this wood come from in the middle of Egypt, from what I understand the treesHow do you cut out the underside of the rock once you supposedly dug out the shape, with round rocks???? Then, the Egyptians placed these solid granite slaps on wooden boats and moved them up the Nile River? You need a pretty big boat to carry a solid 80 ton granite rock. And lastly, they rolled these granite pie that are there are not strong enough to do this, let alone any tree. And the newest theory is that the workers were not slaves but servants who were paid and worked for periods of time on the pyramid. Thats acceptable, but how do you feed and provide water for thousands of people everyday in the middle of the desert in Egypt? If you have 10,000 people working in one area, in ancient Egypt, that is a lot of food and water to keep up with.

Ancient Egyptians had "Bronze Age" technology? Copper (based) tools? Their masonic mauls and chisels, on tomb reliefs, looked much like those of contemporary stone workers. For every few hammer blows, some poor "apprentice" had to re-sharpen the master's chisel? <G> One suspects they had "pipe drills" too: Feed a sand / water slurry down the inside and rotate back and forth with ropes... ad-infinitum. Even hard granite (sarcophogi etc.) would eventually yield? I suspect they "undercut" things in much the same way as later (Brits) carved out millstones at Stanage Edge... Albeit carefully!

Stanage Edge, Millstones. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Climatically, Ancient Egypt was a more green and temperate, back then. They had vast non-desert, Middle East and African Empires to provide them with timber for ships and furniture, so why not a few rough-hewn 4x4's (timber) on a inclined plane. Place stone on sledge, add a bit of animal fat lubricant, and away you go! Seems fairly plausible?

I suspect managing and servicing a large workforce is / was as difficult back then as it is now. More reason to imagine they were not slaves. I suspect the "Craft Gang" who signed-off the Great Pyramid as the: "The Drunkards of Menkaure" were not totally oppressed and starving - At least re. regular Beer supplies?

Aside: No-one "knows" stuff? No explanation perfect? But it's interesting to ponder ideas "unearthed" by Experimental Archeology? As a one-time "hard" scientist, I sometimes feel a tad *envious* of disciplins that seem like extended (FUN!) field-trips in the sun. LOL. But I see no "absurdities" here - Or even "impossibilities" re. Ancient Egypt.

[Hawkpalmer]

Thank you to all those who have replied, appreciate it. I have sky+ the program to watch it again, lol and was going to post the guys name and other details but thanks jonnyD333 and others for providing the links.

I'm not naive to believe all that I see on these documentaries or read in the popular glossy coated books BUT for me what they do is bring to my attention subjects that interest me and I can find books and websites ect to find more about the subjects.

When dan browns the da Vinci code book came out someone recommended I read it which I did and found it quite interesting to be honest as I had not heard the story about Mary magdalene and Jesus being married and the blood line existing/knights Templars ect so I got more books and read up on things. I can see why some people would've put off by these books/programs tho but certain generations may not be aware of certain subjects. Same with prof brain cox, I have read people taking a dislike to him and his programs but I think he does is bring sciences/astronomy ect to a new younger audience which for me is a good thing as my 14yr old daughter has taken a very keen interest in the universe and asking some good questions (altho she has always been into the subject before prof cox came to our screens) so for me I much prefer her to be into this stuff rather than watching soaps and other rubbish on our tv screens.

[Macavity]

I'm not naive to believe all that I see on these documentaries or read in the popular glossy coated books BUT for me what they do is bring to my attention subjects that interest me and I can find books and websites...

Exactly so!

I would not exactly recommend early retirement on (physical!) health grounds. <G> I do miss "science" (not always scientists! LOL). But I do realise how little I READ *outside* my subject - Even met any people with different ideas. Simply I had no TIME! Idem most full-time workers, people who bring up kids etc.

Although a "poor" reader - I loose concentration, I skip stuff etc! I have now read quite a bit of historical, speculative, esoteric, - even Old/New Age spiritual stuff. <G> It may be that Brian Cox would be duly "appalled" at some of it? Not quite:

Jimi Hendrix - Astro Man - YouTube

But I don't feel my "Mind has fallen out of my face" - Yet...

[davew]

When discussing subjects the majority of us know little about, certain " Facts " are revealed. Just as a fore instance, and I'm sure this wasn't intended to deceive, the Pyramids are made of granite. Someone who's reading this stuff for the first time may now be thinking how fantastical that is. They weren't. It was locally extracted Limestone in the main. Even possibly transported as a slurry over relatively short distances. Who knows ? Granite was used in almost unimaginably sized blocks. Yes. But not the whole lot by any means. As for tools, some of the Granite shows signs of working. There are pictures out there.

These Pyramids weren't built in isolation either. There are many before and after. The one's before show the development process and the one's after show crudeness as the money probably ran out.

Is it not possible to celebrate Man's efforts ?

[Cloudsurfer]

Actually, as has been pointed out above, the Earth was known to be round by the ancient Greeks nearly 3,000 years ago. They even knew the circumference of the Earth. The methods they used for working this out are fairly conceptually simple.

The fact is that there is no independent evidence of alien civilisations "creating" or even "aiding" ancient human civilisations. It's pure speculation and arguments from incredulity. It's a useless, pseudoscientific hypothesis.

Consider it like this: the "conventional" theory explains all the observations with negligible requirement for unseen variables. The "ancient astronaut" theory (such at is) also explains all the observations but requires we invoke a new, occult, variable for which there is no evidence other than the circular fact that it is required to make the theory work. Which is the more reasonable position?

This is exactly what I mean. Our current society is so fixed on proof and evidence that we often forget to think outside the box. Why? Because we are comfortable inside the box. This is just human nature.

In my flat earth example, I meant Europeans of the 13th/14th century. I doubt they have had any connection to the Ancient Greek who lived almost 3000 years before them.

Let me rephrase my example. More than three quarters of all people believe in some sort of deity. There is no physical evidence for these deities, so does that mean all those people are wrong?

There is no concrete evidence our life was influenced by higher intelligences, that is one way to look at it. But there's also no concrete evidence they haven't either. That's thinking outside the box.

[Hawkpalmer]

Is it not possible to celebrate Man's efforts ?

Definitely.

For my mind 1 of mans greatest marvels/achievements is our ability to communicate. When we look back through history from the primates and early mans cave drawings to language and books, music telephone and Internet. Its quite impressive really and if you imagine for example say 100yrs ago and tried to explain to say (for example) Charles Darwin what the Internet or Facebook is I'm sure you would get locked up in a padded cell as I'm sure mr Darwin nearly was for the evolution theory he brought to the world in his glossy books, lol makes you wonder tho what/how humans will be communicating in 100yrs time from now tho, doesnt it??

[davew]

Very neat and tidy.

Depends how you look at this box.

The Greeks thought inside the box and came up with a globe due to the evidence thet saw around them. The flat earthers thought outside the box and didn't use the evidence they saw around them ?

Edit - I should have used the quote option. I didn't mean the message to come after yours Hawkpalmer.

[michigander]

If you go to Aswan (southern Egypt) you can be shown 'The unfinished obelisk'. It was being extracted from solid granite when it cracked and was abandoned. It clearly shows the method of extraction. a line of holes was made in the rock (possibly by the sand abrasion method described by Macavity on post #41). These holes were then stuffed tightly with dry wood which was then soaked with water. The expansion of the wood was sufficient to cause the granite to crack along the line. I presume that the site selected which had promising 'fault lines' for this technique.

Marion

[Glen]

I don't buy the ramp thing, a 1/4 slope would be over half a kilometre long and probably twice as much rock/mud/stone to build than the pyramid itself.

The problem is that at the top of the main gallery the was a heavily rope worn stone,

now been 'reinstated' so looks as new.

Anyway, what with the pyramid text and all, they sure was a clever bunch.

Edit found pics.

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[NAFK]

This is exactly what I mean. Our current society is so fixed on proof and evidence that we often forget to think outside the box. Why? Because we are comfortable inside the box. This is just human nature.

In my flat earth example, I meant Europeans of the 13th/14th century. I doubt they have had any connection to the Ancient Greek who lived almost 3000 years before them.

Let me rephrase my example. More than three quarters of all people believe in some sort of deity. There is no physical evidence for these deities, so does that mean all those people are wrong?

There is no concrete evidence our life was influenced by higher intelligences, that is one way to look at it. But there's also no concrete evidence they haven't either. That's thinking outside the box.

The problem with this kind of thinking is that it can explain everything and, therefore, explains nothing!

For example, what if I said the Egyptians received help in building the pyramids from magic, super-intelligent, invisible, bouncing weasels from the centre of the Earth?

Thinking "outside the box" is all well and good, but it's pointless if you don't cough up the evidence to support it. It's most rational to retain an open-mind towards alternative hypothesis, but to favour the explanation that's most simply derived from the evidence.