Sympathetic Twins

[Space Bat]

Can the power of thought be the fastest thing in the known Universe?

Question is if you have two sympathetic twins (Brothers) at the extremities of the Universe....lets pick a figure as so many differing opinions of size of 15 billion light years apart from each other.

One shines a huge light at his Twin - so ignoring universe expansion etc the light should reach his brother in 15 billion light years time.

But what if we were to chop off on the brothers arms shining the light - will the brother on the other side of the universe feel it before the light hits him...

Bearing in mind there are cases where twins have felt pain at the very instant their twin felt this pain - even being several thousand miles apart on different continents...

[haitch]

Are there any controlled scientific experiments that prove the sympathetic twins theory?

[ScubaMike]

Sounds like this has been plucked out of the E.E."Doc" Smith Skylark series I read when I was younger. a Thought powered space propultion system (I think.... - "my mind is old, my memory dim" or the other way around maybe )

In my defence, I was a voracious reader of anything Sci-Fi.

[Space Bat]

Are there any controlled scientific experiments that prove the sympathetic twins theory?

TBH would have to do some googling to come up with the relevant info that may point to scientific experiments......

I can only go with stuff I have read and heard reported....etc, so may not entirely be factual.

However I am quite willing to try this theory on Jedwood....blinding one with a bright light and cutting an arm of the other....is kinda appealing as would be sending them 15 billion light years away...

[haitch]

TBH would have to do some googling to come up with the relevant info that may point to scientific experiments......

I can only go with stuff I have read and heard reported....etc, so may not entirely be factual.

However I am quite willing to try this theory on Jedwood....blinding one with a bright light and cutting an arm of the other....is kinda appealing as would be sending them 15 billion light years away...

Now that's an idea - could we go for 7.5bn light years each in opposite directions?

[SteveL]

you know, I had some horrible thoughts about how this thread was going to progress, but the comment about experimenting on jedwood caught me out so much that my work mates now wonder what it was that made me lose the plot laughing for nearly a whole minute... thanks for that, its cheered me up no end!

[JulianO]

The Hugh Walters series of planetary exploration I read when much younger had sympathetic twins to control spacecraft. This was on the longer missions to get around delays. I think it started on Journey to Jupiter or might have been Spaceship to Saturn. It was a clever device to get around the delays and they used suspended animation.

Oh - actually Mission to Mercury had it in.

Anyway - current theory is nothing can go faster than the speed of light, so there!

[Space Bat]

Anyway - current theory is nothing can go faster than the speed of light, so there!

Gravity??

[JulianO]

Gravity??

Nope - gravity goes at c too.

[Space Bat]

DISCLAIMER:

The OP (me) does not or will not be held in anyway responsible for the transportation of said Jedwood twins to the furthest outreaches of the universe to be mutilated...

Thankyou.

Julian - so the gravitational pull of a black hole ?

[JulianO]

DISCLAIMER:

The OP (me) does not or will not be held in anyway responsible for the transportation of said Jedwood twins to the furthest outreaches of the universe to be mutilated...

But you might turn a blind eye if it happened?

Julian - so the gravitational pull of a black hole ?

Travels at the speed of light. The same with our sun. If it were to vanish, we'd continue in orbit around where it wasn't for about 8 minutes or so, then suddenly go veering off at a tangent, at exactly the same time we'd see it disappear. The same would happen with a black hole - should it grow more or less massive the effects of gravity wouldn't spread out faster than the speed of light.

[ollypenrice]

In the search for a means of determining the longitude it was proposed that a dog on shipboard be observed when a dog at Greenwich was deilberately hurt. The nautical dog would therefore yelp at Greenwich noon in sympathy.

Barking mad.

Having said that, I am not at all convinced that we understand brain function or all of the physics necessary to understand the brain (and I find comparisons with computers particularly unconvincing.) So should my mind be closed on this subject? Left very, very slightly ajar, perhaps...

Olly

[Space Bat]

It is a strange process to understand....

It captured my interest when recently reading an article on this.

Ok the two in question were a couple thousand miles apart - so was instantaneous pain felt because it fell within the Speed of Light and appeared to be instantaneous because of this?

Is this thought - esp - or whatever it is governend by the constraints of nothing travels faster than light? What speed is it can it be quantified??

If the twins were 93 million miles apart - would it take 8 minutes to feel eachothers pain??

[Macavity]

There seems to be a particular "link" between my twin cousins. Decades ago, as young boys, I remember they had just learned the moves of Chess - So yours truly (a few years older) was dragged off to play them. I suggested they made alternate moves. It was a weird experience... exchanged glances before moves, looks of consternation... AND smug satisfaction at the result. Worst still, I think the soundly BEAT ME. Oh the shame of it...

They also developed a variety of "twin-speak". Despite efforts of parents, teachers... subsequent marriages, divorces, they seem now HAPPIEST sharing a small home as middle-aged, single guys. <G> Not quite as irritating as "Jedward" though - thankfully!

I avoid the supernatural, but I too sense there's more to brain function than just "hard science".

[ollypenrice]

I've taught twins at school. There is certainly something strange going on, something non twins can't easily grasp. I think they do have to be monozygotic though. My best friend was a normal twin in childhood and nothing much linked him to his brother. Very curious, all this. We should have our eyes and ears open on the matter.

Olly

[toml42]

I don't think there's ever been any evidence for 'Sympathetic twins', only anecdotes and stories. There is certainly something interesting about them however, which is more to do, i think, with the psychology of spending your childhood with someone who is essentially a clone of you... it's no wonder they often share a close connection

[Stagman]

An interesting question!

If the second twin really did feel the pain at the exact moment as the first twin, then that would mean that the information his mind or body received had to have travelled faster than the speed of light! In effect allowing the second twin to feel the pain before the actual event? If information could travel faster than the speed of light, then information could cause an effect to happen before the event.

Put it another way. The information would have travelled backward in time and the second twin could then send a message to the first to get out of the way of the axe and thus prevent his arm being chopped off! It's a paradox.

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[ronin]

Even several thousand miles would seem instantaneous at the speed of light. So the reports mean little.

[Stagman]

Even several thousand miles would seem instantaneous at the speed of light. So the reports mean little.

The OP quoted the twins as being 15 billion light years apart?

[Space Bat]

Even several thousand miles would seem instantaneous at the speed of light. So the reports mean little.

Indeed said 15 billion light years apart - also mentioning the fact reported events would fall within the speed of light due to close proximity no matter how many thousands of miles apart...

The question is if this is a true phenomenon then what are the rules that govern this where speed is concerned?

Could thought and the power of the mind be faster than light...?

[ollypenrice]

An interesting question!

If the second twin really did feel the pain at the exact moment as the first twin, then that would mean that the information his mind or body received had to have travelled faster than the speed of light! In effect allowing the second twin to feel the pain before the actual event? If information could travel faster than the speed of light, then information could cause an effect to happen before the event.

Put it another way. The information would have travelled backward in time and the second twin could then send a message to the first to get out of the way of the axe and thus prevent his arm being chopped off! It's a paradox.

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Well, I'm a rank amateur in all this but there is considerable evidence in the quantum world (as I 'understand' it...) that certain events are not constrained by the speed of light. Try googling Alain Aspect and the entangled photons experiment.

Since the brain is a quantum thing, and since we have no real conceptual understanding of the quantum world, I think we should be open minded.

Olly

[Stagman]

Indeed said 15 billion light years apart - also mentioning the fact reported events would fall within the speed of light due to close proximity no matter how many thousands of miles apart...

The question is if this is a true phenomenon then what are the rules that govern this where speed is concerned?

Could thought and the power of the mind be faster than light...?

But why would proximity have an effect on speed? The information would still have to travel between the twins. If it were possible at close proximity, then it should be equally possible at much greater distances. For the second twin to feel the pain he would have to experience it before the first twin.

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[toml42]

Well, I'm a rank amateur in all this but there is considerable evidence in the quantum world (as I 'understand' it...) that certain events are not constrained by the speed of light. Try googling Alain Aspect and the entangled photons experiment.

Since the brain is a quantum thing, and since we have no real conceptual understanding of the quantum world, I think we should be open minded.

Olly

Quantum entanglement, so far as we know, is not capable of actually transmitting information. The result is always random, it just turns out that the universe has a knack for remaining consistent. The simplest way to explain this is actually, somewhat counter-intuitively, to posit the multiverse theory, which is why it is currently the favoured theory amongst most theoretical physicists (though by no means a consensus).

[Space Bat]

But why would proximity have an effect on speed? The information would still have to travel between the twins. If it were possible at close proximity, then it should be equally possible at much greater distances. For the second twin to feel the pain he would have to experience it before the first twin.

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What I am saying the case of sympathetic pain or experiences associated with twins - is on Earth...and so the experience if occurs at the same time falls within the limits of the speed of light...for example if twins 6 thousand miles apart felt the others pain at same time....would be well within the speed of light.

But what happens when you space them further apart - like an AU would it take 8 minutes before one twin felt the pain of the other...?

If however still felt it as same time even at that distance then indeed the rules of light speed do not apply to the power of thought...

So at what point would the distance be too great before there was a delay? if however there was no delay even if billions of light years apart - then that opens up some interesting debate.

Obviously there is only smattering of evidence that this twin phenomenon exists - and not much published and the one person that did the most work in this field was a ****

Seem the filter removed the fact it was a 1940's German

[Stagman]

What I am saying the case of sympathetic pain or experiences associated with twins - is on Earth...and so the experience if occurs at the same time falls within the limits of the speed of light...for example if twins 6 thousand miles apart felt the others pain at same time....would be well within the speed of light.

But what happens when you space them further apart - like an AU would it take 8 minutes before one twin felt the pain of the other...?

If however still felt it as same time even at that distance then indeed the rules of light speed do not apply to the power of thought...

So at what point would the distance be too great before there was a delay? if however there was no delay even if billions of light years apart - then that opens up some interesting debate.

Obviously there is only smattering of evidence that this twin phenomenon exists - and not much published and the one person that did the most work in this field was a ****

Seem the filter removed the fact it was a 1940's German

I have no idea if the sympathetic pain you describe is real, or not?? But if it is? then some form of communication must be happening! Even though we may not understand the mechanics behind it, there will still be a time delay and that delay will be greater than the speed of light, if it wasn't, then it would break the laws of causality.

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