M101 supernova... what are my chances of seeing it?

[matsey]

Hi all,

I was lucky enough to finally get some clear skies last night so made an attempt at finding the supernova in M101... absolutely no luck at all, I couldn't even see M101 itself . It doesn't help that I only get a short window (maybe an hour) before M101 goes behind my neighbour's house, plus the light pollution in Stevenage is pretty awful.. in fact last night I think was the worst I've seen it.

But... as very good luck would have it, I need to drive down to Norfolk this evening to pick up my dad from my aunt's. The skies are pretty much inky black from my aunt's garden, no light pollution at all, so I'm thinking I'll take my scope with me.. I suspect that tonight is going to be the best, and possibly only, opportunity to spot it, at least for me.

So, given that I will be in a nice dark sky location, what do you all think my chances are of catching a view of (a) M101 and ( the supernova itself in my 6" scope? Am I being hopelessly unrealistic to think I might be able to see it?

Also, I've got a print out of Mark's star map, but if anyone has any other tips to help track it down, that would be great.

Thanks

Matsey

[Mark at Beaufort]

Matsey you will be able to see the SN with a 6" scope because I estimate that last night it was mag 11.

However, the difficult bit is seeing M101 (Ursa Major is low at the moment) so that you can cross reference the star field around it which makes finding the SN that much easier.

I initially produced a star map showing the FOV of my 80mm finderscope - this allowed me to identify patterns using Mizor and Alkaid as a starting point. You can also use Theta, Kappa and Iota in Bootes as a guide. I was lucky because I could see M101 in the 10" but if you take your time and find the position of the galaxy you will see this mag 11 star which will not be on your star map.

Hope you are successful.

Mark

[MartinB]

I could only just make out M101 with my 12" newt last night, took me quite a while to see it even when I was confident I was on target. The transparency was poor with a lot of moisture in the atmosphere throwing up the light pollution. It seems conditions were like this across much of the country.

[matsey]

Thanks guys, sounds like clouds willing, I will be able to see it.

Just a couple more questions, if someone has a moment to assist a little bit further.

I have been trying to get my head round the various star maps showing M101 but I confess I'm really struggling to translate the orientation of the various maps against what I will expect to see in my scope.

First of all... what would be the best mag piece to use? You'll see from my signature I have a fair range of plossls from 6mm up to 32mm, plus my lovely 24mm Panoptic, and I have a 2.5x PowerMate. Normally with deepsky I find myself using either the 17mm plossl or the 24mm with the powermate (I'm saving up for a Nagler in the mid-range ).. would either or those be the best option (24mm+PM gives me approx 150x mag), or should I use something else?

Secondly, I'm attaching a couple of screenshots from Stellarium of roughly what I'll see in my telescope with the 24mm and with my 24mm + the PowerMate. I've found this ocular view pretty accurate with other objects, but I'm finding it a bit more difficult because the photo view of M101 it shows is nothing like what I suspect I'll actually see, even in tonight's dark sky location.

Obviously the supernova is not on either image. So, if anyone can help me locate whereabouts it should be, that would help enormously.

Thanks again, really appreciate the help with this one. When I get to Norfolk this evening I'll have very limited internet access, so I'm trying to get do as much research in advance as I can

Thanks,

Matsey

[Mark at Beaufort]

Matsey I am looking at your first picture showing the star field but it appears to me to be the view in a Newt not a SCT?

I attach your original picture with some suggestions but you will need to correct the view.

Mark

[matsey]

Well spotted Mark you are quite correct ! I had to download and set up Stellarium at work to get the screenshot and I still had the ocular view set up to do both a horizontal and a vertical flip. Oops, sorry about that

I think this is right now... it's just got the horizontal flip...

I'll check out your image side by side with the new image, I think now I'll be able to place the SN in the right place.

Thanks hugely for you help

UPDATE: Excellent ! Have taken your image Mark and flipped it vertically, and I can now see where the supernova should be perfectly on my corrected image. Just printing everything out now, so am all set. Will definitely report back later.. as long as the clouds don't conspire against me, I am confident I'm going to get my view, so really, a huge thanks again

[chrismwg]

Hey, thanks very much for posting those Stellarium "eyepiece" images and guides, Mark and Matsey! With those I was able to see the supernova with my 8" scope just south of San Francisco. Couldn't make out M101 (too close to the local light pollution), but all the other stars were in exactly the right positions. My first supernova ... my next dim star-like target will be to look across 1/4 of the universe at the 3C273 quasar, but that will have to wait until spring with my 18".

chris

[umadog]

Oooh. Thanks for that image, I think I might have seen it last night! I had a print-out with me but there was no scale and I got confused.

[matsey]

Chris & umadog... the thanks definitely goes to Mark for these, those images wouldn't have helped much at all without him adding the supernova

And as for me.... :D:headbang::) .. which from that overflow of smileys I'm sure you can gather that I saw it too !! Absolutely amazing ! Still not convinced I saw M101, but the star positioning definitely confirmed the supernova was in view. And now I know where it is, I'm pretty hopeful I'll find it tonight at home even with my light pollution.

So definitely the mark'd up map (he he geddit?! ....I'll get me coat... ) was a huge help, definitely don't think I'd have found it without it, so massive thanks yet again to Mark

[Mark at Beaufort]

So pleased your have seen Matsey. Now you can sit back and observe it at your leisure seeing it getting brighter over the next week or two.

Mark

[KerryAnn23]

thats a great map to help us all, can i just ask tho, i noticed that your zoom picture was saying different things to mine and i was wondering if you have managed to change what magnification stellaruim does, if so i would appreciate help changing mine as iv been in to everything i can think of to change it but im totally unsuccessful, thanks x

[matsey]

Thanks Mark, that's exactly what I'm really looking forward to now, watching how it brightens and then fades over the course of the next few weeks/months. It really is quite an amazing event and I do feel really privileged to be witnessing it.

KerryAnn, I use the ocular view in Stellarium loads when I'm in the garden with my scope, really helps to make sure I'm looking at what I think I'm looking at, very useful ! I had started to make some notes to explain to you how to configure the magnification, etc, but then I see that Stellarium wiki have done a much better job than I ever could... with screenshots and everything ! Here's the link: Oculars plugin - Stellarium Wiki.

Briefly though you need to go to the configuration options (F2 for configuration window, plugins tab, click Ocular then the configure button.. you need to set up the Telescope and Eyepieces in the corresponding tabs). There's also an option to set up a binocular view, so you should be able to configure it to match what you should see in your binoculars.

One thing to be wary of though is viewing deep sky objects like galaxies and nebulas with the ocular view... that's about the only time when it's not particular accurate... in the image above for example, it shows M101 and its spirals beautifully, but I can't even make out a fuzzy blur in my telescope !

Matsey

[matsey]

quick update...

Very short observing session for me tonight as the clouds have just rolled in (probably a good thing really, I do need to get up for work tomorrow!).. but wanted to confirm that I can now see the supernova from my own light polluted location... I suspect more because I know where I'm looking now than because the conditions are any better. Comparing with stars of similar brightness in my FOV, I'd put it roughly at mag 10.5. Happy happy

[redneon]

Great to hear that it's really visible now and with these maps I'm hoping to catch it myself tonight (weather willing as it's been pretty bad up north for the past couple of days).

I've only got a 4.5" scope myself (and some 10x50s and 20x50s) so it's going to have to be bright for me to see it

Would I be best off using a low power eyepiece to catch it? The aperture of my scope is 1000mm and I've got a 32mm plossl which seems to do a great job.

[redneon]

Actually, one thing I have been wondering is how the image will look in my scope. My scope is a reflector on an equatorial mount so I imagine it's more difficult than just flipping the map to gauge how it will look?

[Mark at Beaufort]

I viewed the SN last night and estimated that it was about 10.2 when I compared it to a nearby star which has a mag of 10.25.

I saw M101 and the SN last night in my 80mm finderscope so its going to be visible in your 4.5 scope.

I would start with your lowest EP (32mm) to confirm the star positions and once established use a higher magnification which will darken the sky.

Hope you get some clear skies and good luck with the hunt.

Mark

[Mark at Beaufort]

Actually, one thing I have been wondering is how the image will look in my scope. My scope is a reflector on an equatorial mount so I imagine it's more difficult than just flipping the map to gauge how it will look?

Hello Redneon. The star map above which has the yellow lines and wording on it is the view which you get with a newtonian, like yours, so use that.

Mark

[matsey]

Hi redneon... I found I needed a fairly low power (I used the 24mm Panoptic, which matches the first screenshot with the smaller M101 image)... any higher than that and I found the guide stars went outside my field of view, and you really do need those to see the position of the supernova. I would imagine your 32mm plossl would be a good choice.

As for your second question on the orientation of the image for your scope, I'm afraid I really don't know, sorry. Hopefully someone else can answer that...

Good luck though, hope you find it too

EDIT.. LOL am too slow... what he said ^^

[redneon]

Excellent, thanks a lot Here's hoping the clouds stay away tonight or I shall my performing my all-too-common-lately shaking of the fist at the sky.

[KerryAnn23]

thanks matsey, i will look in to that later on, its so hard trying to learn as much as possible before PSP and have time to look out if its clear, I no Jupiter was really bright about 2am monday but typically i didnt have my bino's at the time to see if i could see my 4th moon. i really do want to figure out if i will see this super nova as it is a nice moment to share with other. thanks again xx

[faulksy]

Great to hear that it's really visible now and with these maps I'm hoping to catch it myself tonight (weather willing as it's been pretty bad up north for the past couple of days).

I've only got a 4.5" scope myself (and some 10x50s and 20x50s) so it's going to have to be bright for me to see it

Would I be best off using a low power eyepiece to catch it? The aperture of my scope is 1000mm and I've got a 32mm plossl which seems to do a great job.

thats a big scope mate 1m aperaturs. lol we no what you ment:)

[andyc277]

Whats my chances with a 76mm FirstScope and a 12.5 or 20mm EP?

[matsey]

Hi Andy,

To be honest I'm not completely sure.

It's around a mag 10.3 at the moment, so I guess it depends on whether you can normally see stars of that magnitude normally. Though I'm far from an expert, I believe it will depend on both your scope and your seeing conditions/light pollution, etc. I seem to be able to see down to around 11.5 in my 6SE (6"/152mm), which has an advertised limiting magnitude of 13.4, but I do live in a heavily light polluted area, so I'm not surprised I can't see right up to the limiting mag.

The best thing to do I think is just have a go. Use the annotated map Mark added above (you may need to turn the image to a different orientation for your scope) - there isn't anything else that bright in the immediate area (at least that I can see!), so if you can see that "triangular" shape with the two mag 8 and 9 stars plus the dimmer star, then you're seeing the supernova.

The other thing that might be worth doing is to look at another area of the sky first with a range of stars at differing magnitude, and compare what you're seeing with Stellarium. Check there what is the lowest mag you can see.. that might give you a better idea of whether you'll be able to see it when you do get your scope pointed at M101 (which I can't see at all, so don't be concerned if you can't see M101 itself!)

If you can't see it now though, I would keep trying over the next few weeks... it is supposed to continue getting brighter, so it's possible it will brighten up enough at some point for you to see it.

That's all I can think of so hope it helps. If not, I'm sure someone else will come along with some more ideas.

Matsey

[redneon]

thats a big scope mate 1m aperaturs. lol we no what you ment:)

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. 4.5" is four and half inches. 4.5' would be four and and half foot, if that's what you're getting at...

But I am a beginner so it's more than probable that I've said something stupid

[West End Wendy]

I saw the supernova very clearly last night with a Watec video camera. It's impressively bright - certainly brighter than the core of the galaxy.

I have a flip mirror so I can compare the view in the eyepiece. M101 is completely invisible in the eyepiece (I live in London) but I'm pretty certain the supernova was visible (4" refractor, 11mm Nagler).

Just very difficult to tell for sure when you can't see the galaxy itself.

Tim