Andromeda galaxy - fuzzy blob

[Stu]

30 minutes ago, Charic said:

The next time that conditions allow, I'll try to take  better notes, maybe try the Nikon.

It was the sole reason to visit the Baker Street meeting in August, to peer through a 10-12" scope under Urban  skies/lighting. 
Also, when reports come in from those that visit places like Skye, I know what their experiencing 

Charic, my point is that looking through 12" scope in London is NOTHING like looking through a 12" scope in your back garden. The LP is London is not just glare from streetlights, it is a whole city's worth of LP!

You skies are far nearer to Skye than they are to London I think? Was the Mag 6.1 from your back garden?

[Charic]

Stu, I understand what your saying, I'm not trying  to be awkward, just conversing!

Yes, the 12" in London may be inferior to the 12" in my garden, granted,  so lets forget  about my my garden for an instant, and let me ask, how much better would the 12" Skyliner be (or any brand as long as there's  an 8" and 12" to compare ) alongside the 8" in Regents park, under the  same seeing condition, both using for example a 12mm BST Starguider, or a 10mm Delos?

If there's a significant difference ( of which there must be for my sake ) then I would contemplate going for a 12"again, but I've not had the opportunity to try two scopes under the same condition at any site!  In-fact, over three Years, Ive seen no-one else with a scope? My only concern is how much better, side by side, these scopes compare. If its marginal in London, then at my house, even under the darker sky (oops!)  it would still be marginal, given my present conditions. 

Maybe I should attempt to reach out to the local club and settle my own argument!
 

[John]

12 minutes ago, Charic said:

Stu, I understand what your saying, I'm not trying  to be awkward, just conversing!

.. how much better would the 12" Skyliner be (or any brand as long as there's  an 8" and 12" to compare ) alongside the 8" in Regents park, under the  same seeing condition, both using for example a 12mm BST Starguider, or a 10mm Delos?....


 

47.67% better (give or take a % or two)

[Stu]

40 minutes ago, Charic said:

Stu, I understand what your saying, I'm not trying  to be awkward, just conversing!

Yes, the 12" in London may be inferior to the 12" in my garden, granted,  so lets forget  about my my garden for an instant, and let me ask, how much better would the 12" Skyliner be (or any brand as long as there's  an 8" and 12" to compare ) alongside the 8" in Regents park, under the  same seeing condition, both using for example a 12mm BST Starguider, or a 10mm Delos?

If there's a significant difference ( of which there must be for my sake ) then I would contemplate going for a 12"again, but I've not had the opportunity to try two scopes under the same condition at any site!  In-fact, over three Years, Ive seen no-one else with a scope? My only concern is how much better, side by side, these scopes compare. If its marginal in London, then at my house, even under the darker sky (oops!)  it would still be marginal, given my present conditions. 

Maybe I should attempt to reach out to the local club and settle my own argument!
 

I'm sorry Charic, I do get a little over agitated when I hear people complaining about LP when in reality it is just local glare from streetlights rather than the horrid grey sky background we have to contend with near the cities.

I also get a little frustrated as I have heard you talking about a 12" scope for a long time. A large part of me is shouting inside 'JUST BUY THE BLOOMING SCOPE!' There, I've said it .

You have mag 6.1 skies available (still not sure if this is your garden or not), and I know that a 12" scope under the conditions you have will be a very significant improvement over an 8", there is just no way that it can't be. It is not like a BST vs a Delos, there is a more than doubling of surface area with the associated increase in light gathering and resolution, hard physical properties which can't fail really.

The Revelation 12" dobs look very good for the price and would allow you to test the concept. Waiting for years for a suitable second hand unit is just more lost opportunity? No?

If your local society has a potential to let you have a look through a 12" then get yourself down there boy  

No hard feelings, just trying to encourage you to put the decision to bed one way or another , my apologies for coming across in the wrong way if I did. Good intentions only  

 

[Charic]

On 17/07/2011 at 07:19, Angelika said:

Tonite I set out to find the Adromeda galaxy

Sorry Angelika, I/we seem to have drifted a little of course here, sometimes the nature of forums 

[swamp thing]

2 hours ago, Charic said:

 about NELM 6.1 on a good night!

 

Buy the 12" Dob.  

 

[Charic]

6 minutes ago, Stu said:

Waiting for years for a suitable second hand unit is just more lost opportunity? No?

Yes! your right, I did specifically want the Skyliner

7 minutes ago, Stu said:

encourage you to put the decision to bed one way or another

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

8 minutes ago, Stu said:

my apologies for coming across in the wrong way if I did.

Not the wrong way, but the potential to shout was there?

Yes, there has been a few repetitions in my threads, maybe my lack of experience,  or simply just based on the very  few observations when away from home.

Like you say, its all part of the fun,  intentions good.

 

[Stu]

18 minutes ago, Charic said:

Sorry Angelika, I/we seem to have drifted a little of course here, sometimes the nature of forums 

Well, it was over 6 years ago Charic do hopefully Angelika has seen M31 now  

[Stu]

1 minute ago, Charic said:

Not the wrong way, but the potential to shout was there?

Unfortunately yes, but in an encouraging way I promise  

[Charic]

1 minute ago, swamp thing said:

Buy the 12" Dob.  

 

SWMBO ( Mrs Charic ) has just asked "whats wrong with your present scope"?

Not sure she'll  stay awake long enough while I explain!

For now, the 8" will stay.

[Charic]

4 minutes ago, Stu said:

Well, it was over 6 years ago Charic do hopefully Angelika has seen M31 now  

Noted and hopefully M31 was discovered, but still best to keep themes separated.

[swamp thing]

Just now, Charic said:

SWMBO ( Mrs Charic ) has just asked "whats wrong with your present scope"?

Not sure she'll  stay awake long enough while I explain!

For now, the 8" will stay.

..........I would sell it. 

From a NELM 6 site there will be a noticeable improvement from 8" to 12" 

Your call though  

 

[Stu]

Have you tried one of these? Very handy for cutting out stray light without fogging up your eyepiece 

 

[25585]

8 to 12 is a good jump. Depends on portability though. A big scope is nice to have but if it gets used less is it worth that?

[Charic]

For a hood, I use a towel.
When inside my dob tent, cold winter night, all blacked out, I just see through the scope, using the 32mm as a finder and using whatever eyepiece to satisfy the need. I shutter down the scope so no stray light gets in. I do the best I can. That said, my most memorable view of Jupiter was aside my house, conditions were perfect (apart from street light)  to see Io's transit shadow, but Planetary  observing is not the same as spotting DSO's.

[Stu]

Just so we know clearly charic, what is your NELM from home and from your dark site?

A 12" under good seeing will surely outperform an 8" in terms of colour and resolution, although I clearly see Galilean moon and shadow transits with a 4" frac. I find a large scope suffers more from poor seeing but ultimately shows more detail.

[Charic]

18 minutes ago, 25585 said:

8 to 12 is a good jump. Depends on portability though. A big scope is nice to have but if it gets used less is it worth that?

The 12" is marginally slower than the 10", but its my assumption that If the upgrade ever took place, the scope would actually get used more during the winter at home ( weather permitting )  without having to travel, but not during the Summer, as its just twilight all the time this far north. As for portability, I'd just separate the two halves, whereas now, I  lift my 8" straight out to anywhere in my small garden

[Charic]

55 minutes ago, Stu said:

Just so we know clearly charic, what is your NELM from home and from your dark site?

I will re-assess the NELM when conditions allow, its overcast as we speak. I'll probably add something to my signature with regards to the information.

[25585]

On 9 October 2017 at 19:21, Charic said:

The 12" is marginally slower than the 10", but its my assumption that If the upgrade ever took place, the scope would actually get used more during the winter at home ( weather permitting )  without having to travel, but not during the Summer, as its just twilight all the time this far north. As for portability, I'd just separate the two halves, whereas now, I  lift my 8" straight out to anywhere in my small garden

Unless you are doing imaging a slower 10 inch might suit your skies better and be more portable. I would feel tempted to get a SCT with 10 or 11 aperture if I could afford one. Big enough aperture, less space and less awkward in physical size. But long FL. 

[Charic]

On 09/10/2017 at 18:27, Stu said:

Just so we know clearly charic, what is your NELM from home and from your dark site?

Looks like I'm getting 4.35 / 4.96 ( @ 20:00 GMT ) the 4.96 is just behind a tree line which hides the street lights, this will better as I move further away from the city.
I also detected tonight  that I really do need to use my glasses more when just looking up at the Stars, their  so much sharper!

[JOC]

I was lucky enough to see Andromeda last night.  However, reading this I wonder if I also got too close - my EP was filled with a grey fuzzy mass - denser in the middle, but no clear arms, maybe I should have backed off - it didn't occur to me to do so.  If I ever write a book on astronomy for novices I will include a bit about how big things should be in the EP at certain magnifications.  i.e. a pea in an 8" frying pan, an orange in an 8" frying pan etc. 

[Charic]

I viewed M31 with my 8x40's tonight with ease, but nowhere the level of detail that the scope provides, the sky was also buzzing with satellites . The viewing area is just to the rear of my house, its a footy pitch, but sat on my Carp seat recliner, the sight of Ursa Major filled one end of my field of view, the Milkyway over head, M31 already mentioned above and M45 Pleiades just started to peer over the tree's, my first observation in weeks?

I bought a 32mm Panaview primarily to view M31 due to the  sheer size of M31. My  original supplied 25mm eyepiece did not appear to be wide enough the last time it was used, so for me  to get the best view,  dark skies, low power, relax and enjoy the view!
I'm waiting patiently to get out this season to the darkest place I know, hoping to extract the best my scope and eyes can muster.

Your  book of information sounds interesting, what I'd like to see is any target, say Jupiter, with several  images produced from different scopes, using the same eyepiece! for example, what would Jupiter look like using say an 8mm Starguider through the TAL100RS compared to the Skyliner 200P f/6?