Fire and Theft: How can we avoid it and stay safe?

[Macavity]

Well, since the "whole town" now seems to know (or fantasise!) - A big locking bar.

CrookStopper - Security products. - The guy *used* to advertise on Ebay onetime?

It is below direct vision level from the road thanks to a trellis-topped fence panel.

P.S. I don't keep the Optics / Easily-transportable outside unless I'm "in" though.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Macavity

[Sp@ce_d]

Well, since the "whole town" now seems to know (or fantasise!) - A big locking bar.

CrookStopper - Security products. - The guy *used* to advertise on Ebay onetime?

It is below direct vision level from the road thanks to a trellis-topped fence panel.

P.S. I don't keep the Optics / Easily-transportable outside unless I'm "in" though.

Crikey.. hadn't even thought about someone trying to nick the whole obsy..

[Glen]

Doing soem "iffy" maths...

An 8'x6' obs is "roughly" 8 Cubic meters volume so you would need at least 5 of the extinguishers.. or one with 5-6kg capacity

They are for confined spaces... engine bays , equipment cabinets etc...

Sorry ...

Peter...

Doh No need to say sorry Peter, thanks for pulling me up on that Lack of brains on my behalf..It would have to be a teeeny obsy for it to work, mind you it would go with the 2"x2"x3" min requirement for a pier foundation I keep slipping up on

I'll amend the post and keep looking:icon_salut:

I do apologise

Glen

Edited July 15, 2011 by Glen

[Rols]

I do notice a slight hum/fizz on very damp nights...coming from my door handles and hinges that is...we also play baseball quite a bit, the kids for ever leave the bat in the garden leaving muggins here to place it within reach for the next days playing.always has a spare ball next to it as well just for ease, amazing how important having a ball with a bat is........ did you know if you have a sign up saying guard dog and that dog bites someone you are in more trouble than if your family pet (named VICIOUS) without a sign....oops,mistakes happen and dogs live..general household insurance will not cover public liability unless you specify a want for it. worth a thought you never know that attempted (got caught) burglar might just have slipped on that step as you startled him... a slip down a step could be nasty in my back garden..we do have phones for 999 emergency here though, so we can call them help if they look too badly 'done' by.

i think the best form of security is discretion, like a few have commented, i cant condone spending too much money trying to protect things we leave in the garden, common sense will see you right, beware.

Our dog has a tag round his throat it reads " Beware aggressive owner " i was thinking of buying one for my scope.

[malc-c]

Without giving too much away (you never know who might be reading this forum)..

CCTV cameras covering the back gate and observatory. PIR operated security lights, flood the garden with light should anyone enter the garden. ROR bolted down by turnbuckles on the inside. 5 lever mortise locks on the door, with blind hinges. 129db alarm system, which will give anyone hearing damage if near the sounder for too long. Security marking of the costly stuff....

Oh and if they think they can get through that... the ultimate deterrent.... a 4yr old German Shepherd who not only raises the alarm when she senses something is not right, will, like one of the other posters will protect the household if released. Any would be thief wanting to take her on would have a screw loose !

[brantuk]

How about just keeping a well trained doberman in the shed? And a warning on the gate - you might not even need the dog

[rocker]

Hi all just joined the forum though have been reading for a couple of years. Security is a concern for me as well since we were done over a couple of years ago prior to building my ob. All the points mentioned in this thread are valid though I believe as one person mentioned before discretion is the key. My ob looks a garden shed, (it actually sits in our front yard to one side and is partly visible from the road) however the walls are double skinned and the solid wooden door sits in a steel door frame with an effective (I hope) though unassuming lock. I'm of the belief that you will never stop someone from taking your gear if they really want and despite engraving etc it is unlikely you will ever see it again if its gone and as already mentioned by another person most thieves are smash and grab looking for readily disposable items. Alarms are good if someone responds,cameras are excellent if the person can be identified, dogs can and do get baited, insurance well good luck, armed guard is expensive! Good neighbors help particularly if their house looks better than yours, though obviously didn't work in my case! Anyway I am open to suggestions though please don't shoot me down for these comments.

Discretion -to quote an old saying loose lips sink ships so be careful with who you trust.

My regards to all

[Sp@ce_d]

Hi rocker, welcome to SGL

Sorry to hear of your experience. I agree, not advertising and making your obsy as hard & time consuming to break into is the key thing. My obsy build is now well under way and I chose to use 4"x2 & 6"x2" for the framework and double skin the walls. I have yet to start on the door and roof.

I did get some of the Foscam IP cameras mentioned earlier in the thread which seem to work ok, I'm still looking for a zoomable one though. However, at the end of the day it's how good the physical barrier is between your gear and the thief!

[Hilmi]

I have plans to build my observatory on the roof of the house due to space restrictions, but this provides for massive security gains. If a burglar can get that far, I have far bigger things to worry about than a $10,000 to $20,000 worth of gear. By then they would have cleared out the furniture, TV & amp, whatever limited jewelry they run across as well as my watches computers and tools.... Not to mention the feeling of being violated, you can't put a price tag on that. So I figure, if my house is secure enough to deter thieves, my asto-gear is naturally secure as a consequence.

Also, you can get shatter proof security film for your windows. Had it installed in my shop and somebody tried to break in, they could not get through the glass door.

[Seafury]

I wonder how insurance companies view equipment kept outside in obs

gordon

[Andyfx]

Moat filled with piranhas?

[BenConway]

i know you can spray something on it to protect it from fire and install a sprinkler system. with theft you could instal motion sensors

[Matt Scunthorpe]

I don't think sprinklers will do the electronic equipment much good. Seems with fire, its going to do damage in one way or another

[Gina]

The fire fighting equipment for unattended electronic equipment "sheds" is CO2. I was involved with remote controlled equipment many many years ago.

[BlueAstra]

As a victim of a house burglary I would offer the following advice, which is appropriate for shed or house:

Loud alarms to attact attention

Motion activated lights to remove cover

High fences with prickly bushes (we now have 'anti-bird' plastic spikes on top of fence, apparently this is OK)

CCTV monitoring danger areas

Good locks

Shed alarm is an extension of the house alarm

Security marking

Take photos of all equipment (everything) and keep photos, receipts, etc in one file for easy access. Make a list with cost values. If you don't have receipts estimate the cost and gather evidence for estimated cost values. Next to the cost values make a column with an estimate of the replacement value, with evidence if you can get it (eg adverts). This will make life a lot easier with the insurance company.

As far as insurance goes, mine did cover stuff in locked shed as part of house contents. However, there was a sting in the tail. They paid the claim, but at renewal time would not renew (because of a theft claim -any value). Other insurers then took this as having insurance declined. No internet company would insure, and eventually had to go to a broker and pay four times old premium. I would check your insurers regarding a theft claim and renewal (it won't be in the T&Cs).

There's not a lot you can do to stop a determined burglar, but visible defensive measures (fence/spikes, CCTV, lights) can make them move on to an easier target. Stealth is also good; I would have loved a dome or skyshed, but head said roll off shed.

Edited November 15, 2012 by BlueAstra

[J_M_Franklin]

There is some good advise rolling out in the thread, and BlueAstra makes some good points.

I would reiterate the following into a concise post though.

• Secure fence with no gaps and secured gated entry/exit that has a closed hasp padlock attached when not in use. I would make the fence at least 6ft high and at this height it is legal to add anti-climb paint or sharper deterrents, such as broken glass or metal spikes. I would refer members to this website page for advise that keeps you inside the law.
  

• Ensure you install security lights that are controlled by photocells and motion detectors so they only operate when activated in the dark. I would ureg avoiding the obvious and cheap Tungsten halogen floodlights, instead I would suggest round bulkheads that have 16W 2D lamps installed. These are cheap and the lamps last for years. Also, they operate in a way that does deter because they do not cause overt shadows as brighter security lights do. Check your garden in the dark and check for the dark spots where a person could hide if disturbed, and put a light there. I would urge one being placed on the top of your gates as this will act to stop people interfering with hinges, locks etc. If you need some electrical advise feel free to PM me as I am a contracting electrical engineer and have installed thousands of security lights over the years.
  

• Alarms are only a deterrent if they are VISIBLE and WORK, however alarms are no deterrent to a determined thief and as such these are not overly important so long as other measures have been taken. The best alarm would be a motion detector along the fence line and on the gates as this would alert BEFORE they managed to access any equipment, and the best form of alarm is the recording of a large dog, this is always more of a deterrent than a normal "alarm" sounder.
  

• Keep a list of all serial numbers marked on any equipment, and as has been said, photograph it. If you keep telescopes outside then it might be worth considering a GPS theft tracker. I have one installed in my Land Rovers and it is a good peace of mind. With your equipment it may also assist in cutting any premiums down to size, and whilst it may not deter a thief, it would certainly aid in recovery of large items.
  

• Someone mentioned above about DNA marking, well this is linked to microdots and anyone interested would be advised to consider this outfit.. I have had personal experience with them for equipment marking and they are very helpful and extremely professional. Costs are not cheap, but then nor is the equipment they protect and this is insurance industry recognised .
  

• Signage....People forget this, but it is actually a deterrent, if you use Smartwater, Microdots, GPS trackers or cameras, use clear, obvious and visible signage. As has been mentioned, thieves are opportunists for the most part and they are not looking to get caught, they will avoid any location that has clear and obvious signage of protection measures in place, yes it is harsh, but they will go an burgle those who have not protected their home and outbuildings.
  

• There is a train of thought that making your garden and buildings look vulnerable or "cheap" will act as a deterrent, rubbish, many true opportunist thieves have drug or other addiction habits, they do not think rationally in the way you and I do, they are looking for anything worth a couple of pounds or more that they can grab quick, and a poorly secured outbuilding with no obvious signs of deterrent is an easy target...remember, people keep lawnmowers and other garden tools in poorly secured buildings, and these can be worth serious money to a thief, they will not hesitate to take anything that is not bolted to the floor in your building.
  

• Any equipment that is not normally attached to the telescope but you like to keep handy would be better off locked away, to that end i would suggest a Van Vault. These have secure locks and can be secured to the floor of a building, for anything from £100 to £400 you can ensure that all your ancillary equipment is secure.
  

• If your scope is mounted on a pier, consider using locking nuts on at least two of the fixings, or if your not moving for a long time, use sheer nuts to secure the pier.
  

• If you keep your scope on a tripod but don't move it, consider making a foot for two of the legs that the leg actually sits in and can be secured by a retaining lock or security bolt/nut. this will deter any random thief because the effort to remove would take too long and they would be concerned with detection.
  

• Inside a building/Dome there is another deterrent that you can employ to scare off any would be thief...strobe lights...these can be linked to any security system you have, or you can manufacture your own way of operating them with a delay to allow you to enter and disable before your disabled.
  

These are just some of the ways that you can deter the scum of society and I hope that no-one ever has experience of such a theft of equipment, but if you take sensible and reasonable precautions then you can minimise the risks to the point where you can sleep at night...

[inspectapart]

You can probably cover your astro stuff by home insurance. but if your kit is over £2000 worth you may need to add it as special personal items.Sheds have limits on what you can claim for. You really need to read the small print in your insurance document very carefully indeed.. As far as deterants go,you cant beat a good dog if you have one, But you do need to remove your kit from the shed or obssy when you go away or you`ll be tempting providence . I have lived in my house for 35 yrs and up to last month never had anything taken. Then I had my car taken from my driveway. Police were useless, never even came to take a statement, just issued me with a crime number!

So I doubt you will ever see your astro gear again if it is taken. So my advice is Insure it properly just in case. At least then you can re-buy and start over.

[pete_l]

If you have an old or fried laptop it might be worth leaving it in your obsy / shed as a sacrificial offering.

Nobody ever goes looking for astro gear to steal, so they'll only take it if it looks easy to carry, and to be worth a few bob. I reckon that if there's a laptop lying around, any opportunist would just steal that and run. They wouldn't bother to try to see if it works, it would be the original "grab and go". So better they take a piece of worthless junk than try to wrench an expensive looking piece of kit off something and cause more damage than the value of what they steal.

Plus, if they do discover the laptop they nicked is useless, they probably will write your shed off as a bad bet, so won;t come back.

Edited December 6, 2012 by pete_l

[Budding Star Gazer]

most insurance firms will insure the contents of an out building but you need to list what you keep in it and the value, i will say it's not cheap

i have seperate insurance for my fishing gear including kayaks, snowboarding gear and surfing gear which is all kep in an out building.

[L8-Nite]

Realistic fire and theft protection if you have the room, would be an alarmed steel seatrain container. Small 8'x10' or 8'x20' units are available.

[dreamofsirius]

anything with a power source needs to be seperated from item i shall be installing a submerged lockable chest in the floor with cover over it so you wont know its there, for power items and anything that can be removed and carried away easily when i start on my obsy well thats what intensions are.

[VegasKnight]

what I am doing for fire Safety and Security of My Obsy and The Equipment going into to it ...I am having a house built not far from Lake Tahoe I Decided to have an Elevated walkway (about 10' high) that goes from the Second floor of the house out into the Back Yard Area the observatory is at the end of the walkway on a 2 story Gazebo looking Patio

The entire affair is almost in the center of the property so anyone trying to burglarize it would have to cross a good sized area past a pit bull and then still have to get into the house and go upstairs to simply get access to the walkway leading to the Obsy..Security cameras for the property also monitor the Obsy..

there is an electricity cut-off switch so the chance of electrically induced fires is nill and if the Forest is on fire around the property the distance from the edge of the property to the location of the obsy helps to keep it safe

The walkway is around 40 feet long

[dragonlord]

Found this article that some may find interesting. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1998/08/01/246638/

You may find that the best security you can put on your shed is actually an iron bar with a padlock

http://www.accessallhourslocksmiths.co.uk/locks-and-security/garage-shed-security/

Remember that security and usability are often mutually exclusive, so the simpler your setup is to use the more likely you are to avoid circumventing it yourself and thus the more secure you make your stuff.

[jonnopfc]

As any members that are tradesmen with vans will know you can get a cage that fits inside a van. Now what about a cage that fits within an obsy. So you open your obsy door to be confronted with a cage door that also needs unlocking. Therefore from the outside you have an unobtrusive shed with added security on the inside. It can be made from some angle iron and the good old fashioned chain link fence. You coulkd always have an alrm system then that when active electrifies the cage    .

[astrotyke]

Just saw this topic, its interesting reading everyones different take on security.

Personally, ive only ever had 1 issue in 9 years where I live with my shed, one morning when id been away for the night I came back to find that my shed door has been unscrewed and taken off. They were very careful people, all the screws were removed and no damage done.

Luckily, at the time my shed was a total mess, a combination of kids bikes,outdoor garden toys, garden chairs etc, I couldnt actually get in it. So i think thats what saved me at the time, they just didnt bother lol

After that I put a bolt lock on and a Hasp with a padlock, but at the end of the day its still a wooden shed and you could break in if you wanted to. 

Jonnopfc, I thikn ive seen metal shutters that you can get for you shed that pull down on the inside, might be a good idea