Another night of imaging lost as I didn't Polar align early enough

[swag72]

OK - I feel VERY stupid posting this, but I can not believe that this is the case. I had planned to start on my mosaic tonight, but had to mess about for ages to get my finderscope aligned. So fast forward to a sorted out finderscope - then time to polar align.

Stick with it !!....................

I get Polaris in the bubble in the polar scope and the RA axis is in such a position that I CAN NOT get Polaris in the finderscope in the DEC axis as the rear of the scope bangs against the tripod legs.

I move the scope along the rings, add weight to the back of the scope, and trying to keep a degree of balance in the DEC axis, it still hits the tripod legs.

I tried moving the DEC through 180 degrees to get the opposite side of the hole so that I can see Polaris - Even worse.

I seems that if I haven't polar aligned by about 2200 hrs CET then I can not do anything at all.

Am I being a complete twit? Will this problem only be solved when I get my pier?

Of course, this has not been a problem in the darker months as I can be aligned much earlier.

[martin_h]

Take scope off - polar align - refit scope?

[swag72]

But I need the scope on to polar align don't I?

I can use the RA to get Polaris in the right place, from there the problem starts. The scope is at such an angle that I can not get past the tripod legs to get the scope up high enough to see polaris in the scope.

[shaunster]

But I need the scope on to polar align don't I?

No, you need to polar align using the polar scope in the mount and not the imaging scope itself

[Glider]

I never polar align with the scope on.

Line the finder up with your main scope using another star after you've polar aligned.

[swag72]

Hang on - I've been doing this wrong? I don't get it, I followed tutorials to learn how to align.

Can someone point me in the right direction then?

My process.

First I balance the scope with the camera etc attached.

1) Get polaris in the bubble in the polar scope by moving the RA axis.

2) With the scope on I move the DEC axis and get Polaris in the finderscope.

3) Move the mount to the home position and then align.

Without a scope on the mount, how can I get Polaris in the finderscope?

If you align then add the scope, how do you make sure nothing moves a single mm?

I got my aligning technique off astrobaby's guide - Please help now - Totally and utterly confused.

[shaunster]

You dont get polaris in the finderscope that is irrelevant for polar allignment. You are alligning the mounts axis to the pole star and this has nothing to do with where the main scope or finderscope is pointing! Polar allignment is much easier when the scope is not attached

[swag72]

So ................ let me get this straight.

1) Polar align getting Polaris in the bubble in the polar scope.

Then what? Don't I have to put the mount to the home position? When do I attach the scope? Talk about returning to basics!!

[Psychobilly]

Home is only weights down (along N leg of the tripod) and scope pointing N(ish) then do a star alignment... 3 star if your using the handset... Home doesn't have to be that accurate as it gets sorted during the star align procedure but the closer you are the closer the first alignment slew will be...

[Daniel-K]

do you use polar finder?

[swag72]

So last post ...................

1) Get Polaris in 'bubble' on polar scope.

2) Put the weights downwards

3) Put the scope on and balance it etc

4) Then align making sure that I am starting from the home position?

It doesn't matter if the RA moves? Or the DEC moves?

I tried something like this last night - the alignment was fine, but when I did goto on the moon, the scope was WAAAYYYY out.

Yes I use Polar finder so know where to put the 'bubble'.

[Glider]

You are only getting half the answer you really need. Without typing another essay in reply what you might want to do is search the forum as there have been numerous threads with very detailed lists of exactly want you need to know.

[swag72]

Cheers Glider - I have searched the forum so far to no avail - Will keep looking.

[malc-c]

So last post ...................

1) Get Polaris in 'bubble' on polar scope.

You need to know where Polaris is on its orbit around the North Celestial Pole (NCP) before you place it in the bubble. There are utilities such as polar finer that can do this, or you can use the "clock" position for Polaris as indicated by the goto handset when your run through the set up procedure.

I can't beleive you can't find previous posts on polar alignment using the search function... it's probably the most talked about subject

[Glider]

...Run Polarfinder and find out where to put polar scope bubble.

...Manually put mount in home position, weights down north leg, dovetail straight ahead.

...Turn mount on and go through date/time/etc set up.

...When prompted to start alignment select no.

...Manually rotate RA to put bubble as per Polarfinder.

...Polar align using just alt/azi adjustments.

...Put mount manually back to home position.

...Fit scope and weights.

...Balance scope.

...Manually put back to home position.

...Do 1,2 or 3 star alignment.

Enjoy a night of imaging.

[malc-c]

1) Get Polaris in 'bubble' on polar scope.

2) Put the weights downwards

3) Put the scope on and balance it etc

4) Then align making sure that I am starting from the home position?

It doesn't matter if the RA moves? Or the DEC moves?

Yes it does.

1) - Locate the position of Polaris in its orbit using the handset or other software.

2) - With the scope off the mount and with the weights as close to the mount as possible, release the clutches and rotate the mount so you can see through the polarscope.

3) - place the bubble in the correct position as indicated in point 1 and lock both RA and DEC axis

4) - use the alt / az adjustment bolts to place Polaris in the bubble

5) - Release the clutches on both axis and place the mount in the home position

6) attach the scope and balance

7) place the scope back in the home position and re-boot the synscan

8) run through the set up and select 2 star alignment

9) select the first star that you can identify and let the mount slew to it.

10 release the clutches and place the star in the centre of a medium power eyepiece and lock the clutches. From this point on do not release the clutches again. If you do then you'll need to do the alignment all over again

11) with the star centred, align the finder scope on the same star

12 change the eyepiece for a high power and use the hand control to re-centre (make any final tweaks to the finder as well if required) then confirm the star is allinged

13) select a 2nd star and let the scope slew to it. This time use the direction buttons on the handset to centre the star and then confirm

14) if the setup reports alignment successful the cary on observing, remember never to release the clutches.

[malc-c]

LOL - Glider beat me to it

[RobH]

No, you need to polar align using the polar scope in the mount and not the imaging scope itself

You cannot achieve good enough polar alignment for long exposure imaging by just using the polar alignment scope.

You need your imaging scope on the mount.

1. First get a rough alignment using the polar scope (if you have one....I don't bother)

2. Make sure your imaging scope is set up with the weights down and the scope pointing north.

3. Tell it to slew to polaris.

4. Undo the RA and DEC locks and centre polaris. Do not use the hand controller. Tighten the locks once polaris is centred.

5. Then drift align.

You'll soon have a pier and an observatory and won't have to worry

Rob.

[Glider]

Yours is better!

Is the reboot at 7 necessary, I don't?

At 10 I don't release the clutches, I slew using the handset arrows.

[Glider]

You cannot achieve good enough polar alignment for long exposure imaging by just using the polar alignment scope.

Pretty sweeping statement. I'll not bother offering anymore advise.

[malc-c]

Yours is better!

Is the reboot at 7 necessary, I don't?

At 10 I don't release the clutches, I slew using the handset arrows.

Why thank you

Not sure step 7 is required, but I always do it as there may be a slight difference in the position when reset to home after all the balancing. I too always used the handset to position the stars, until someone on here suggested putting the scope manually where the goto thinks it should be. - I guess each to their own

[RobH]

Sorry guys....it sounds like you're massively overcomplicating things

I gave up all of the 1 star, 2 star alignment routines....you don't need them.

If you tell the scope where it's pointing, i.e., by manually centering on a target with the clutches released, as long as you've started with a rough polar alignment, then drift aligning will get you spot-on very quickly. It might seem complex to start with. but it's not and it's well worth learning.

Rob.

[Glider]

Cheers Malc, I'm off.

[RobH]

You cannot achieve good enough polar alignment for long exposure imaging by just using the polar alignment scope.

Pretty sweeping statement. I'll not bother offering anymore advise.

It is a sweeping statement because it's correct. For long exposure imaging you need much more accurate alignment than can be achieved with a polar scope alone.

Rob.

[malc-c]

Rob,

I've yet to try the drift method, but as I'm setting up in an observatory soon will want (need?) to get the mount as aligned as possible... however, I think that the OP may have problems following drift alignment procedure given the confusion she has of "basic" polar alignment...