Great Global Warming Swindle (Ch4 last night)

[Vega]

I believe the Ozone layer hole still exists but has been steadily repairing itself since the new CFC laws were introduced some years ago. CO2 doesn't affect it's growth thank goodness.

The Ice age thing still stands Bern. It's still all related to global warming (sounds like a contradiction). The first place to be affected by global warming will be the ice caps (which as we know are already being affected). The melting of the caps causes fresh water from the North pole to head southward towards the saltwater of the Oceans. Once enough of it is melted, it can disrupt the Gulf Stream eventually causing it to stop altogether. Without the gulf stream, we practically get an ice age. Kinda like the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow' but happening nowhere near as dramatic and fast as they depict in Hollywood

Ever wondered why identical Canadian latitudes to the UK get such freezing sub zero winters, yet the UK gets nothing like it ? .... All down to the warming power of the gulf stream. It's not just the Atlantic area's neither, the Gulf Stream is a vital warming system that delicately even's out the Earth's temperatures.

Matt

[Viking]

I thought the big scare over global warming was the melting of the ice from the Artic and Northern Russia producing fresh water to flow into the Atlantic and eventually stop the Atlantic Conveyor. This would trigger an ice age within a few hundred years. Is it every 10,000 years this happens? Effectively reducing the population for many thousand years while the planet repairs itself and it all begins again. A simple control system.

Enjoy the moment. In astronomy we realise just how insignificant we are. They say that the Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxies are heading for a collision!

John

[Tiny]

Here's another take on what is happening...

In the year 2007 the Lord came unto Noah, who was now living in

England,and said:

"Once again, the earth has become wicked and over-populated, and I see

the end of all flesh before me. Build another Ark and save two of

every living thing along with a few good humans."

He gave Noah the CAD drawings, saying: "You have 6 months to build the

Ark before I will start the unending rain for 40 days and 40 nights."

Six months later, the Lord looked down and saw Noah weeping in his

yard, but no Ark. "Noah!" He roared, "I'm about to start the rain!

Where is the Ark?"

"Forgive me, Lord," begged Noah, "but things have changed. I needed

Building Regulations Approval and I've been arguing with the Fire

Brigade about the need for a sprinkler system. My neighbours claim

that I should have obtained planning permission for building the Ark

in my garden because it is development of the site, even though in my

view it is a temporary structure. We had to then go to appeal to the

Secretary of State for a decision.

Then the Department of Transport demanded a bond be posted for the

future costs of moving power lines and other overhead obstructions to

clear the passage for the Ark's move to the sea. I told them that the

sea would be coming to us, but they would hear nothing of it.

Getting the wood was another problem. All the decent trees have Tree

Preservation Orders on them and we live in a Site of Special

Scientific Interest set up in order to protect the spotted owl. I

tried to convince the environmentalists that I needed the wood to

save the owls - but no go! When I started gathering the animals, the

RSPCA sued me. They insisted that I was confining wild animals

against their will. They argued the accommodation was too

restrictive, and it was cruel and inhumane to put so many animals in

a confined space.

Then the County Council, the Environment Agency and the Rivers

Authority ruled that I couldn't build the Ark until they'd conducted

an environmental impact study on your proposed flood. I'm still

trying to resolve a complaint with the Equal Opportunities Commission

on how many disabled carpenter's I'm supposed to hire for my building

team. The trades unions say I can't use my sons. They insist I have

to hire only accredited workers with Ark-building experience.

To make matters worse, Customs and Excise seized all my assets,

claiming I'm trying to leave the country illegally with endangered

species. So, forgive me, Lord, but it would take at least 10 years

for me to finish this Ark."

Suddenly the skies cleared, the sun began to shine, and a rainbow

stretched across the sky.

Noah looked up in wonder and asked, "You mean you're not going to

destroy the world?"

"No," said the Lord.

"The British government beat me to it."

[supernova]

Thanks Tiny that gave me a great laugh :D

Well done.

Bernie.

[supernova]

If noah got all the wood from Brighton he could build a 10 story Ark and add some fish eg carp

A multi story carp ark

[Ant]

just found this!

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/01/06/br_r_r_where_did_global_warming_go/

Ant

[Tiny]

I loved a bit in a TV programme last week that penguins with foot long beaks lived near the equator 38 million years ago. In those days, it seems, far from being cold the earth was so warm that there was NO ice at the poles.

After that the earth managed the odd ice age and more hot spells with not a sign of little old man even being around, let alone doing the deed.

Now he is and so are politicians and pressure groups and it's all our fault and nothing to do with all those outside forces like volcanoes, the Sun and all the rest. All we have to do (they say) is the modern equivalent of a rain dance (at enormous cost to us) and it will all be alright.

[supernova]

Great find Ant it backs up what I have allways said its the :sunny:

[Sam Bo]

just found this!

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/01/06/br_r_r_where_did_global_warming_go/

Ant

Unfortunately they are very wrong!

The hottest year was in 2005..not 1998

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/

Also, you have to compare the variability over 100, 1000 or 100000 years to actually get an idea of where the temperature is going. Simply saying that temperatures havent changed in the last 10 years does not prove anything. There are so many factors involved and the evidence is vastly in favor of man made global warming by carbon dioxide production.

[dave1978]

Imagine we got a bunch of climate scientists, wiped their minds so they thought they were still in present day, and took them back 10/12,000 years to the middle of the ice age and allowed them to do their studies etc. I bet they would find a way of blaming mankind for the ice age (global cooling). There is one thing and one thing only that dictates the climate on this planet and its that freaking big nearby star!

Global warming has now become an enormous money making swindle, these people have to continue insisting its us to blame or what will they do! their ridiculous government grants/money will go etc.

[supernova]

Imagine we got a bunch of climate scientists, wiped their minds so they thought they were still in present day, and took them back 10/12,000 years to the middle of the ice age and allowed them to do their studies etc. I bet they would find a way of blaming mankind for the ice age (global cooling). There is one thing and one thing only that dictates the climate on this planet and its that freaking big nearby star!

Global warming has now become an enormous money making swindle, these people have to continue insisting its us to blame or what will they do! their ridiculous government grants/money will go etc.

That is a good point.

[Macavity]

I think the "debate" - particularly on the internet is quite deeply reflective of individual "psyche". I mean, I can often predict which side folks will stand on THIS issue from their past posts on other issues. Frankly I no longer KNOW what to believe. But it has been somewhat flattering to be ASSUMED to be a "young person" on other, rather conservative, Forums... The never-realised "Hippy" in me hopes that this can remain so, just to spite 'em. (Still listening to the debate, despite!)

[Sam Bo]

http://royalsociety.org/page.asp?id=6229

[Ant]

I do beleive that Humans are contributing to Climate Change - I do not think that we are 100% behind it but we are giving it a helping hand.

But why should I beleive the Misleading argument 1 - 9 on that link when you say that the link that I posted is

Unfortunately they are very wrong!

Why is your link any more right that mine - as already stated I do beleive that we are at least partially responsible.

What winds me up is people saying that that is right and what other beleive is completely wrong.

Most scientists thought that the world was flat - it turned out is wasn't. We need to be open to he POSSIBILITY that humans MIGHT not be behind Global warming.

The thruth of the matter is we do not have enough long term data to know whats going on.

Ant

[darditti]

There is one thing and one thing only that dictates the climate on this planet and its that freaking big nearby star!

If that were the case, it would be possible to predict the temperature of the planets based only on their distance from the Sun. Sorry, it's not.

Why is your link any more right that mine

Because websites are not equally authorititative. If you think the Boston Globe, a popular newspaper (what would be called a "tabloid" in this country) is equal in authority to to the Royal Society, well, you might as well start believing The National Enquirer.

David

[James]

There is one thing and one thing only that dictates the climate on this planet and its that freaking big nearby star!

If that were the case, it would be possible to predict the temperature of the planets based only on their distance from the Sun. Sorry, it's not.

You're assuming that the Suns output remains constant. It doesn't.

Why is your link any more right that mine

Because websites are not equally authorititative. If you think the Boston Globe, a popular newspaper (what would be called a "tabloid" in this country) is equal in authority to to the Royal Society, well, you might as well start believing The National Enquirer.

Alfred Wegener proposed back in the early 1900's that the continents floated on molten lava and moved around. I quote from Wikipedia:

"By the 1930's, Wegener's geological work was almost universally dismissed by the scientific community and remained obscure for some thirty years."

This understates by far the sheer vitrolic abuse that was heaped on him by the leading scientists and journals of the time - abuse that was all proven completely wrong.

Whilst I'll never take as fact anything that gets printed in the National Enquirer/The Sun etc, nor will I assume the Royal Society is correct just because its 'authoritative'. Nor will I assume anything is the case because the 'consensus' of scientists say that it is. In science the consensus isn't always right.

[supernova]

It is all speculation as to what is going on.

I dont think we are going to change anything,

Because the human race is not ready to work as a team, together.

Most of the worlds populations are trying to kill each other all the time.

[darditti]

Quote from: darditti on Today at 17:25:43

Quote

There is one thing and one thing only that dictates the climate on this planet and its that freaking big nearby star!

If that were the case, it would be possible to predict the temperature of the planets based only on their distance from the Sun. Sorry, it's not.

You're assuming that the Suns output remains constant. It doesn't.

I'm not assuming that. The point is that planetary atmospheres together with solar output determine climate. We can measure changes in the output of the Sun. The output of the Sun over the last 20 years has not correlated with average global temperature. The trend is the wrong way. The Sun is not causing global warming.

If you don't believe scientists who are advising the Royal Society, well, OK, you can not believe them if you like, there is always a margin of doubt in all science. I am persuaded because I have looked at the research. Most of those who say they are not persuaded don't actually seem to have looked at the research. What more can one say, if those who dispute the issue will neither spend the time to look at the basic data, nor believe those who have?

David

[saturn5]

It is all speculation as to what is going on.

I dont think we are going to change anything,

Because the human race is not ready to work as a team, together.

Most of the worlds populations are trying to kill each other all the time.

Spot on Bernie,everyone is too busy looking after their own interests and tribal warfare takes up any spare time thats left over from looking after no.1(a year older and all this wisdom Bernie.)

[Sam Bo]

If you look at the data collected over the last thirty years it suggests that man is responsible for about 70 % of the warming trend. No one has said that it is 100 % due to man. The rest is probably the suns output, volcanoes (actually cool more than warm) and other factors such as aerosols that cool the planet plus a whole host of other positive and negative feedbacks (such as the oceans and vegatation that have collectively taken up half of all our emissions!!!). The climate system is not linear...sometimes cold events can be triggered by warming. So much is still not understood but it is far from speculation.

It worries me that journalists can write an article based on data that are actually wrong (i.e. temperatures havent remained stable since 1998...2005 was hotter) and then speculate that global cooling has started just because of a 10 year period. And yet they refuse to believe reliable data stretching back 100 years and also ice core and isotope data stretching back 100 000s of years that shows a rising warming trend. We know that the temperature oscillates because of all the other factors mentioned above. We are currently in the biggest experiment ever performed but unfortunately there is no control.

[Tiny]

I do believe that Humans are contributing to Climate Change - I do not think that we are 100% behind it but we are giving it a helping hand.

But why should I believe the Misleading argument 1 - 9 on that link when you say that the link that I posted is

Unfortunately they are very wrong!

Why is your link any more right that mine - as already stated I do believe that we are at least partially responsible.

What winds me up is people saying that that is right and what other believe is completely wrong.

Ant

But isn't that how our modern PC world works. As in...

... I am right - disagree and you are not only wrong but you are so wrong you should be ridiculed and chastised for stating such wrong beliefs. So take the money and say we are right - or else.

[Sam Bo]

Its not about ridiculing anyone!...its not personal...its about looking at the evidence that we have and drawing a conclusion from it for the sake of everyone. This debate has become far too political and non-scientific.

[Tiny]

If you look at the data collected over the last thirty years it suggests that man is responsible for about 70 % of the warming trend.

30 years ago they first suggested global warming existed and it was our fault. Since then they have got all this data to prove it. Before global warming was thought of they thought the world was cooling and, guess what, they collected lots of data to prove that.

It is all about getting grants for research - tip the forelock to the right people and say the right things and you get it. Most of the money comes from interested parties - there is no such thing as an independent body where the human race is concerned. Just look at this forum. Of course a lot of money for reseach comes from governments and we all know how politicians manipulate fact and fiction to their own ends and how grants committees have to play along - or else.

[Ant]

Most of the money comes from interested parties - there is no such thing as an independent body where the human race is concerned. Just look at this forum. Of course a lot of money for reseach comes from governments and we all know how politicians manipulate fact and fiction to their own ends and how grants committees have to play along - or else.

?

[Tiny]

Everybody has an opinion or an angle as they say in US cop movies. :D(Stars of typical movie.)