GoTo = Cheating?

[tom33pr]

Yes you can !

Just click on them with the mouse and zoom in.

simples

Don't mean to argue but there are loads of objects in Stellarium that you click on/zoom and see... nothing, so MorningMajor is definitely right here

IMHO criticising GOTO for having too extensive list of objects is just daft.

[smudgeball]

Don't mean to argue but there are loads of objects in Stellarium that you click on/zoom and see... nothing, so MorningMajor is definitely right here

IMHO criticising GOTO for having too extensive list of objects is just daft.

Ok,

I think the point we were getting at was that even with a huge list of objects, the OTA might not be up to the job or your location would be too light polluted to benefit?

The number of objects was not really in question ?

[tom33pr]

Fair enough... I just skimmed through the thread and notice a few posts ridiculing GOTOs on wee maks (for instance), and the argument was that you won't be able to resolve (say) 99% objects on the list because of their silly aperture... I agree, but GOTO is pretty much the same application installed on different types of telescopes - it would be silly to create a separate one for 3,5,10" and so on...

On the other hand I agree that those ads saying '40,000 objects available' are stupid, but this is just a commercial trick - you have those when it comes to pretty much everything on the market.

Regards.

[smudgeball]

It's been a good topic.

5 pages...good effort !

[Slangers]

Cheating at what? I want to see fantastic sights in the night sky. Does it matter how I find them. I spent a lot of time without a goto and waster many hours failing to find my targets. I got frustrated and lost interest in the hobby as a result.

Is it cheating to use google instead of going to the library and manually searching a catalogue to find a book and search the index and maybe find what you need to know? Is it cheating to ride a bike instead of walk? To switch on central heating instead of rubbing two sticks together to light a fire? To take antibiotics instead of fighting infection with your unsupported immune system? To use a satnav instead of a map? To use GPS instead of a sextant and sea charts?

Does progress=cheating?

[MikeWilson]

Finally, if you have light polluted skies like me, you don't have many stars to find your way around so a GOTO is essential.

+10

This was the dealbreaker for me and the main reason why I've always had a GOTO mount since starting out last August. Often the GOTO finds objects that I can't see, but that's partly why I ended up getting into the imaging side of things.

I'd say that GOTO is very useful, get it - but if it pushes your budget into a lower aperture scope, I'd probably not get it. Better to get a bigger aperture/better scope now and add GOTO later if you find you really can't live without it.

Plus, there are also ways of adding GOTO without a hand controller (SkyFi/Laptop/EQMOD) at lower cost as long as the motors and serial connector are there.

Clear skies,

Mike

[haitch]

I think it boils down to do you want to divert £xxx from your scope budget to go into the goto system?

If you already have constraints on the scope (i.e transporting, storing, lifting) that mean you can't go for more aperture then fine, spend it on a computerised set of motors.

Me?... My next major upgrade will be to move from a 14" to an 18"+ dob.

[m_j_lyons]

Manually finding DSOs is great to become familiar with the night sky,but once you are familiar it's much more time -effective to use GOTO. And for imaging you can't do without.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

[haitch]

Didn't they have a race on S@N where they put a goto up against manual finding and, due to the setup time for the goto, it was quicker to find their list of objects for the competition manually?

[GazK]

Every hobby has a "purist" sect who scorn a particular aspect of technology - usually a recent development - while treating the preceding technologies as handed down by God (mods: figure of speech, I'm not talking about religion!)

I'm also a cyclist, and in that community there is a group of people who ride fixed gear bikes and look down on anyone with the temerity to use a freewheel and gears. Of course they happily use chains on their bikes, whereas the real hardcore shun chains and ride direct drive penny farthings.

Me? I walk. Fancy "cyclists" with their "wheels" and "bearings"!

[Macavity]

I think, for non-imaging purpose, the Ioptron GOTO comes close to the Alt-Az GoTo ideal. <G> Although I have a perfectly working example, it still lacks a little re. load-bearing capacity and Handset transparency. I'm trying HARD to love an HEQ5 [EqMod] GoTo - Increased loading, but with requisite polar alignment hassle etc.

I think there is still a gap (several gaps?) in the easy-to-use, robust (plus GoTo!), mount market.

[Multi-Coated]

[

Me? I walk. Fancy "cyclists" with their "wheels" and "bearings"!

LOL

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

And then of course, my bins have no goto, so for everyone with bins (except for some smart guy who put some 20x80 (I think) on a goto alt-az mount) star-hopping is the only way. Last summer I did the opposite: I just trawled through the Milky Way towards Sagittarius and Scorpius, and started identifying the fuzzies I found from their position relative to the stars. I did the same in South Africa. Great fun: finding things, and only then turning to the star atlas to check what is is. Very purist no doubt, but to anyone out there with a goto mount: use it in the way you see fit.

Regarding the rules of the Messier Club concerning their certificates: it is their business to make up rules for their club, and should you use goto when you are working under their rules (for whatever reason), only then could anyone suggest it is cheating.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

[

Me? I walk. Fancy "cyclists" with their "wheels" and "bearings"!

LOL

I trust you shun these newfangled "shoes"

[kniclander]

Me? I walk. Fancy "cyclists" with their "wheels" and "bearings"!

walk!! you mean with legs!! I dont hold with any of that modern stuff and prefer to flop around on my ancestral fins

(but goto is kind of cheating)

[kev 102 42]

May The Art Of Star Hopping continue, i hope it dont die out,if i had the time i would have loved to have learnt this skill........... kev

[Dave]

Like most things.

New technology is usually embraced more as the older set in their ways generation die off...

GOTO a very useful tool, but use it in association with your own knowledge of the sky, you can't go wrong.

Dave

[Leo.A]

I've just purchased my first GOTO mount after 20 years of battling with an 80mm cheap (not really?) refractor and over the 20 years I have seen many things which come about mainly by sheer luck. I always knew how to identify planets, occasionally got lucky and snared a double star, but most viewing has been of the moon. The main reason is friends want to look through the scope and after spending ages setting it up, the take one peek, say "that's nice" then want to go inside where it's warmer. Many people are also disappointed when they can't see the pretty colours in nebula as seen in photos. I've given up trying to explain why.

I'm patiently waiting till it's a little warmer so I can get the GOTO out and start really enjoying finding objects in the night sky.

Try as I might over the years, I can never seem to remember constellations and such, so with the GOTO I should theoretically be able to learn, get more viewing pleasure, and actually get my son excited about astronomy. My son has already taken a major interest because of the computer related association, he's computer mad and is now going to figure out how to guide my scope with his laptop, so less strain on my receding memory (chronic pain and medication related memory loss).

I've known many friends and acquaintances who have purchased cheaper quality scopes with little to no knowledge, put the highest power eyepiece and 3 times barlow straight in for maximum power and wonder why they can't seem to find anything. These people usually either sell or give away these scopes after one or two uses and they are available on Ebay for next to nothing. At least with GOTO mounts more people seem to be taking an interest in the hobby.

I guess another problem with the hobby is most people are only really exposed to cheap department store scopes, either 60mm refractors (525X magnification (????)) or 76mm reflecters and without proper exposure to astronomy, most people have little to no understanding of how to set and use these often inferior quality scopes. This also drives many from the wonder that is astronomy. At least most GOTO equipped scopes come with decent instructions on their use and help introduce an enjoyable aspect of astronomy to more people.

I guess using a GOTO mount is as much cheating as using a GPS to find a relatives new house in an unfamiliar location.

As my hairline recedes, my memory recedes with it!

I once had brown hair and grey matter. Now the situation is reversed.

[Telrad]

Depends what you wanna do. If a good observing session is the aim and you have a good knowledge of the sky and what you want see, then there's nothing wrong with manually swinging a big dob around and having a good gawp.

If you're imaging or sketching though, time is at a premium what with all the set up time and post processing time. So finding objects quickly and tracking electronically is a positive advantage.

It's horses for courses I say - cheating doesn't come into the equation

I agree with Kim It's definitely horses for courses, I don't think GoTo is cheating, it's just depends on how much you already know - in terms of locating objects and how much time you have during an observing session. Imaging and sketching being a great example. Personally, I like using mine manually, it enables me to learn where to locate objects etc..

[waccoo]

I was in the GOTO=CHEATING school until one of our club members told me that he "was just too old to learn the sky."

Folks who haven't been doing it manually for 40+ years probably don't care to learn the sky enough to find things, so, they go GOTO. I am at the point where I can find most the the Messier objects from memory, so, I just don't care about GOTO (except maybe if I ever get a photography setup).

I once made a buddy of mine very mad when I told him I could find M15 in 15 seconds. It took me 10. He wasn't happy.

Folks like me find the finding as exciting as the seeing.

[kustard]

My first scope was a C8 on a basic fork mount, no digital setting circles of any kind. I used to star hop and plan my nights using a star map. It was great for learning the night sky.

After 10+ years of doing that I upgraded my to a CPC9.25 GPS scope. The number of objects I can look at each night increased a hundred fold. I still enjoy star hopping too, by picking a constellation and starting at the first star I move the scope (via the handset) from star to star.

GoTo systems are great and star hopping is just as great, it's all about getting those photons into your eyeballs

[Backscatter]

After receiving my goto scope, I purchased a second hand manual GEM unit to learn both methods at the same time. There seemed to be a lot of “different opinions” out there as to which way to go as a beginner, so not being able to decide….

I have enjoyed both methods, but use the goto scope more often (for a variety of reasons). Not so much the “finding” but the tracking aspect, especially in colder weather or when taking a break, using bino’s, etc.

As to which method is correct/better/right (goto/non-goto), it is clearly up to the individual. What you choose, is the right way for YOU. Unless the teacher is coming around and smacking your knuckles for “cheating”, I say go with what you enjoy, that is what this is all about.

Q. Are there (GEM) scopes that will track an object after finding it manually, (setting the RA & Dec.), but don’t have the database to find the object (motorized only)? Just wondering and still learning.

[brantuk]

"Q. Are there (GEM) scopes that will track an object after finding it manually"

Yup - you can get those

First Light Optics - Dual-Axis D.C. Motor Drive for EQ5

[Skiddins]

You could always try using one of Herschel's original non GOTO scopes;

No matter how good or bad you think you have it now, at least your scope doesn't require a team of people to move it!

Skiddins

[acey]

Of course GOTO is cheating. So is using a map with all the DSOs already marked on it. Herschel had neither. But I don't mind cheating and I'm happy to use a map. I do mind time-consuming gadget faffing, so I don't bother with the GOTO. But each to their own: it's a hobby, not a sport.