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The Street That Cut Everything


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As for chavs, without street lights the streets become less hospitable to loiterers since there's no lights for them to congregate around.

The previous owner of my MN78 got rid of his complete home setup (obsy) because the local council installed a big light in the park behind his home. Not only did it ruin his sky, but it attracted the chav moth species who took interest in his scope setup.

BBC complaint will be sent. Licence fee wasted, etc. :cussing:Rant over.

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Not a lot more to be said. BUT I also think it wrong to deprive the elderly of their need of services, for some TV "social experiment" - Even if they don't LOUDLY protest. As ever, the survival of the young, fittest (and most vocal!) of society? I also sense a lot of "neighbourhood unrest" is *sown* by TV programs. One only has to read the (relatively) TRUE facts re. programs like "Jeremy Kyle". :eek:

Some of my neighbors seem crazy enough, without encouraging them. ;)

Edited by Macavity
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I'm afraid I'm from the Charles Bronson school of dealing with Chavs.

Being a double black belt helps of course............ consequently they are an extinct species where I live along with a couple of parents who didn't take kindly to having little johnny the angel threatened by the big nasty man ;) The same little johnny who was off his face trying to set fire to the fence across the road.

I hope they turn up in droves with the lights off, harder to be identified in the dark :eek:

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According to the Telegraph:

Catherine Gee explained how ‘daft’ extra rules were then implemented such as a ban on residents spending their own money on little extras, such as a torch to light their way in the dark streets.
- The Street That Cut Everything, BBC One, review - Telegraph

It seems that residents were not allowed to spend the money on torches. It seems quite reasonable to me that even a cheap 99p torch allocated to each resident would have made things easier at night.

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The idea of refunded council tax, to spend as *I* want, is not without appeal.

Pooling resources was never going to work! ;)

As a crusty old (single) guy, on a (sub-minimum wage) [pre-paid] early retirement pension, I still feel generous re. single mums and pensioners. Public parks too. I'm less sure about leisure centres and GYMS etc. To me, these seem like (others') non-essential "entertainments". ;)

I derive some consolation that, when "put to it" the traditional

"scrounger police" were significantly (and decently?) silent tho'. :eek:

Edited by Macavity
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One thing I did notice from this programme was a better appreciation from some of the residents of the services their Council actually provide. That's a good thing in my book.

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One thing I did notice from this programme was a better appreciation from some of the residents of the services their Council actually provide. That's a good thing in my book.

I think that was the point of the programme.

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One thing I did notice from this programme was a better appreciation from some of the residents of the services their Council actually provide. That's a good thing in my book.

And one thing that annoyed me about the program was how the BBC imposed artificial "rules" to prevent the residents from using their money to hire or use private services or businesses to replace the council services.

They effectively became a mini council for six weeks with a heavy increase in contrived "problems" and without the ability to pay for assistance as a council would, or to use alternative public resources like the emergency services.

And why didn't the local residents didn't take those dogs away from their owners until a £50 fine was paid? Because of the BBC rules...

The whole show was dreadful and very morally dubious. It's arguable that some people will come away from the show actually believing that installing work site lighting flush on the sides of their property will actually work to reduce crime. Or at the very least, that street lighting deters criminals and antisocial behaviour.

Mike

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Chavs in an A3?

More likely a vauxhall nova (oops.... Just given my age away).

If they made my road dark, praps the little toe rags would trip over their own feet on the way home from the pub, thus stay at home or drink less. Either way, problem solved.

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The whole show was dreadful and very morally dubious. It's arguable that some people will come away from the show actually believing that installing work site lighting flush on the sides of their property will actually work to reduce crime. Or at the very least, that street lighting deters criminals and antisocial behaviour.

Whilst I think it went to extremes, I thought there were interesting elements included in the programme. Given how many 'security' lights we talk about on here, and see in our own neighbourhoods, I think most people already believe that lights make for a more secure property, even though we astronomy types think differently.

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Whilst I think it went to extremes, I thought there were interesting elements included in the programme. Given how many 'security' lights we talk about on here, and see in our own neighbourhoods, I think most people already believe that lights make for a more secure property, even though we astronomy types think differently.

We're not the only ones.

This time last year I wasn't stargazing (just thinking about getting into it). I hated poorly installed floodlights then. I still do.

Light tresspasses into other people's gardens, and through windows into homes. It's an emotional violation of the right to peace and enjoyment of one's own property.

A few weeks ago I noticed several of our neighbours down the road had fitted these 500 watt+ lamps flush to their homes. Ditto the neighbours on the opposite side. One house switched on, then half an hour later, the other side. Then one house switched off and the other side switched on - but this time so did another. They all switched off an hour later.

Nobody to my knowledge was even outside.

It's just silliness and petty rivalry and I expect that it will only get worse from here on. And if anything all this show demonstrated was that highly stressed people with few choices end up desperate and angry. That's all it showed.

Best,

Mike

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Chavs in an A3?

More likely a vauxhall nova (oops.... Just given my age away).

If they made my road dark, praps the little toe rags would trip over their own feet on the way home from the pub, thus stay at home or drink less. Either way, problem solved.

Its the same nova, its done the rounds :eek:

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I Got a reply from the BBC.

Thanks for contacting us regarding BBC One’s ‘The Street That Cut Everything’ on 16 May. I’m sorry to note that you felt the programme was propagating a myth that street lighting is both good and necessary for society.

This clearly wasn’t the case. The programme was experimenting with putting a stop to the council services that the street currently received - with the exception of schools and emergency services - to help residents gain an insight into what was provided and often taken for granted, and to see if the residents could cope, would do anything differently, and perhaps even do a better job or save money.

Quite simply, the street had street lighting before the programme and so was to experience life without it for the duration of the experiment – as they did with many other council services. Far from propagating the myths you suggest this gave the residents direct experience of life without street lighting – something not that many people get to experience and giving them the potential to prefer it off if they liked. We also heard from residents in their own words on what they thought of life without the services and indeed how those views might change over time.

It was also explained by presenter Nick Robinson that other councils already have dimmer programmes or policies of turning street lighting off altogether between certain hours. Indeed, from the experiment residents gained a greater awareness of some of the potential benefits, or downsides, to such approaches to street lighting and were able to form their own opinions, as the viewer was.

I’m therefore sorry you were concerned about this aspect of the programme. You can read more about the thinking behind the programme on Nick Robinson’s blog:

BBC News - The Street That Cut Everything

I’d also like to assure you that we've registered your comments on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback we compile daily for the programme makers, commissioning executives, and senior management within the BBC. The audience logs are important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content and ensure that your points, and all other comments we receive, are made available to staff across the BBC.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Kind Regards

Stuart Webb

BBC Complaints

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

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Here's my reply:

Thanks for contacting us about ‘The Street That Cut Everything’ on BBC One.

I understand you were disappointed by the handling of issues around street lighting during the programme, and felt it was wrong of Nick Robinson to suggest that a lack of lighting would result in an increase in crime.

Rather than insisting that there was a direct link between street lighting and crime, Nick was making the point that if the residents of the street couldn’t come together to agree on certain aspects, things like fly tipping and graffiti could continue while the street lighting remained completely switched off. What occurred under cover of darkness was an example how much easier it was to fly-tip or graffiti.

There is some debate over the benefits and drawbacks of dimming or turning off street lights, but on a programme about cuts in council budgets it’s simply not practical or appropriate to focus time on all the pros and cons of this, as this wasn’t the point of the programme. However, this is something we’ve covered in the past, and will do so again when the time is right:

BBC News - Newsnight - Many councils switching off street lights to save money

BBC News - Ilfracombe crime fears blamed on lights switch off

Please be assured your complaint will be added to our audience log, a daily report of audience feedback that's made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.

The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us.

Finally, I have attached an invitation from BBC Audience Services' Head of Communications & Complaints, asking you to participate in our customer survey. We would welcome your views on our service.

Kind Regards

Andrew Hannah

BBC Complaints

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most if not all streetlights have a timer inside, almost exactly like those timer plugs you can plug into your socket and turn the outer rings to the time desired.

get yourself a lamppost key and voila.. tamper with the timing :) perhpas just set an annoying lamppost a few hours back, giving you a few more hours of darkness.

I worked for a sparks company putting up christmas decs one year.

Just picked up on this one, I think you will find almost all street lighting is operated by photoelectric cell, they used to have Solar dial time switches in the old days, phased out when the new technology of the PE cell came in :p

John. Retired street lighting Eng.

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Interesting responses from the BBC. No boilerplate and yet no response admits getting it wrong either.

To anyone watching the lighting segment of the program it was patently obvious that Nick Robinson was saying; street lighting = keeps antisocial behaviour at bay.

A little dishonest as those responses are, I'm glad to see such an overwhelmingly critical and fitting response to the show from various papers and blogs.

How this show passed editorial standards, I don't know...

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Here's my reply from the BBC:

"Thank you for your correspondence regarding the BBC One programme ‘The Street That Cut Everything’ broadcast on 16 May 2011.

I understand you’re unhappy because you believe it was incorrect for the programme to suggest that switching off street lights increases anti-social crime as street lights may have a negative impact on the environment.

The purpose of the programme was for Nick Robinson present a unique social experiment. He had persuaded one street in Preston to give up all council services for six weeks. Armed with their council tax rebates, the 50 residents rallied round and run their own community themselves.

When featuring such experiments, they may include various ideas into what may cut down on the negative aspects in society including the suggestion that switching of the lights may only increase anti-social behaviour however it isn’t a view endorsed by the BBC or conclusive. It may examine this view among others and creates a topic of discussion and debate.

We do apologise if you felt this wasn’t addressed so I'd like to assure you that I've registered your complaint on our Audience Log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that’s made available to all BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive board, channel controllers and other senior managers.

The Audience Logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions on future BBC programmes and content.

Once again, thank you for contacting us.

Kind Regards

Philip Young

BBC Complaints

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints"

Interesting to see the common thread in the responses is that we've all got hold of the wrong end of the stick and they've done nothing wrong

Rob

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BBC's Nick Robinson: "From day one, the lack of lighting has brought trouble to the streets". [stooges in an Audi A3 notwithstanding]

BBC Complaint's Philip Young: "including the suggestion that switching of the lights may only increase anti-social behaviour".

BBC Complaint's staff training manual: Weasel word - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited by MikeWilson
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Here's my reply:

Thank you for your comments with regard to ‘The Street That Cut Everything’ broadcast on BBC One on 16 May.

I understand you feel the programme was not true to life and that this biased.

I am sorry you felt this was misleading as a programme. This was never meant to be true to life or to imply that any of the events covered might actually come about, but as an explanatory experiment which explored collective responsibility for public services. It was made clear this was an artificial situation.

Nick Robinson has kindly written a blog about the programme, which can be found here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13416205

In the blog he mentions “As there are limits to the tolerance of people who had to get on with their everyday lives at the same time as worrying about where to put their rubbish, how to light their street and look after an elderly neighbour, and because there are limits to BBC filming budgets, this experiment lasted just six weeks. And, just in case six weeks didn't really feel long enough, the production team presented them with additional challenges, such as the graffiti and noise nuisance.”

I do understand you feel very strongly about this and I hope this may provide a little insight in to the production of the programme, so I’d like to assure you that I’ve registered your concerns on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, programme makers, channel controllers and other senior managers.

The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions on future BBC programmes and content.

Once again, thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

Mark Madden

BBC Complaints

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

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I'll be honest, I'm not really happy with any of the replies. I feel we've been brushed off.

I'm not just grumpy about how rubbish the show was, I felt it was aimed at frightening the little old ladies of the world into an anti cuts stance.

That doesn't mean I like all these cuts, I don't. But I also don't think respected political journalists should be using a supposedly impartial medium for politically motivated ends.

Alan

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