Difference between an aid and a crutch?

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In another thread I mentioned having Stellarium on my netbook by my scope thinking it was an aid. Somone though called it a crutch. Now I realise this is 100% opinion rather than fact but where does an aid stop and a crutch begin?

[m.tweedy]

one mans aid is another mans crutch. Lots of people do what you do. A crutch hurts more when you hit someone who is making unkind remarks than an aid.

[rowan46]

basically when the aid does all the work. At first you will use these things a lot. But as your knowledge base grows so will your dependance lessen at least thats the theory. If this doesn't happen then it maybe you are over relying on the crutch. Essentially though it doesn't matter. If you only ever use a laptop then so be it it's not compulsory to learn the stars, It's just that the more knowledge you have the more choices you have

[RogerTheDodger]

oh for goodness sake... who cares? do you really think anyone in an observatory (a real one...) actually star hops and looks through an eyepiece? do you actually think they know the names of ALL the stars?

[Jiggy 67]

Doesn't matter whether ita an aid or a crutch, use anything that assists. Otherwise people get fed up and give up.....what would this person call Goto....an aid or a crutch????.....who cares as long as you enjoy what your doing, we're not trying to be Brian Cox!!

[starstalker]

oh for goodness sake... who cares? do you really think anyone in an observatory (a real one...) actually star hops and looks through an eyepiece? do you actually think they know the names of ALL the stars?

agreed, use what u want for however long u want,dont listen to other peoples opinions,the more "crutches" the better IMHO in this sometimes very confusing and frustrating hobby (some people are such snobs)

[swamp thing]

oh for goodness sake... who cares?

Here here.

If it works for you. Go with it.

Regards Steve

[chemtom24]

without stellarium i wouldnt know anything about the skies. first thign i do when i look up and dont know what something is, is look up stellarium. i doubt very very very few people will be able to tell you that a particular 'star' is saturn, or jupiter etc, year after year after year without needing to look up its position on some kind of star map. once you know it however, you can easily track it. its not liek u use stellarium every time you need to find it, night after night lol. but even if you did when your first starting, then so what, everyone starts somewhere.

dont take notice of any die hard star hoppers!!

[philhas]

Fully agree with the other posts, Stellerium is a great program and if it gets you to were you need to be quickly then thats even better. Why waste time looking for the harder to see objects, I would rather spend the time observing and eventually you will know where to look without using it.

[Astro Imp]

Hi Mate,

Who cares?

Do whatever you feel comfortable with. The idea of the hobby is to enjoy the night sky and help each other out, not score points off each other.

Don't let it get at you just enjoy.

[twotter]

Aid or crutch? Doesn't matter as long as you're enjoying your stargazing

[Psychobilly]

Totally agree... leave "them" do it their way and you do it your way...

IIRC there was a perfect example of a "pro" not knowing his way around the sky in the Sky at Night Birthday episode...

Whats the expresssion? something about knowing more and more about less and less...

[Pete Presland]

wow took me a while ,but i finally know what everybody's talking about

do what you like,its not a competition i use stellarium,maps,charts,other websites ect..just enjoy doing what you are doing

[RobH]

A crutch?????!!!

What sort of idiot would think that

Use what you want, when you want, and however you want to.

We are fortunate to live in an age where we have many wonderful tools available, and it's up to us which of them we want to use....as Bunnygod says, it's not a competition.

[chemtom24]

sounds like one of those old blokes you get on building sites - 'back in my day we shifted 20 t'twenty tonne of t'sand by hand each day, you young lads dont know how easy you got it'.. as he watches some little lad walking past with a kerbstone practically breaking his back.

lol, yea i had a word for them sort of blokes lol, im a little lad with a dodgy back

[RobH]

'When I were a lad, we used to lick road clean with our tongues' :D

[Madhatter]

Go with whatever makes your exsperience more enjoyable-be that ease of use of a "GO-TO" setup or star hopping.

I don't think stellariam could be/become a crutch as it seems to be Essentially a fully 3D starchart with added extras.Definitely an asset!

You will also learn this way too..a few weeks ago i woulden't have a clue where to look for saturn, now if its in the night sky i can locate it strait away without stellariam, other things are being learnt slowly too.

[MrsR]

Use what you want, when you want, and however you want to.

We are fortunate to live in an age where we have many wonderful tools available, and it's up to us which of them we want to use....as Bunnygod says, it's not a competition.

Totally agree

[GazK]

The other night I was star-hopping with my 10" dob, using a star chart and my telrad to find my target. A fellow astronomer, who has loads of kit and been doing it for years, poo-pooed my technique. He was blindfolded and poking his tongue out into the air. When quizzed on what he was doing, he explained that he could feel the photons arriving from a distant galaxy on his tongue, and that REAL astronomers don't need all these fancy "books" and "lenses" and "eyes".

Whatever it takes to help you see and understand the Cosmos, is good. Whatever actions of yours put other people off doing the same, is bad.

In the words of the Immortal Brian of Cox - "nobber".

[Ad Astra]

Map and chart reading is a skill, not an aid, and certainly not a crutch. Map and chart making is an even higher skill - few attempt it anymore.

Generally, an aid is something that helps you do a task more easily.

A crutch helps you to do something you should, in all reasonablility, do for yourself.

A GoTo system is an aid, Meade's "Lightswitch" telescopes, complete with entertainment inside that not only aligns, finds, and then offers a better photo of the target and a video clip with explanations is a crutch.

Dan

[rowan46]

The other night I was star-hopping with my 10" dob, using a star chart and my telrad to find my target. A fellow astronomer, who has loads of kit and been doing it for years, poo-pooed my technique. He was blindfolded and poking his tongue out into the air. When quizzed on what he was doing, he explained that he could feel the photons arriving from a distant galaxy on his tongue, and that REAL astronomers don't need all these fancy "books" and "lenses" and "eyes".

Whatever it takes to help you see and understand the Cosmos, is good. Whatever actions of yours put other people off doing the same, is bad.

In the words of the Immortal Brian of Cox - "nobber".

lol:D

[Tantalus]

I don't see how anyone can call Stellarium a crutch more than any other sky-simulation software or even star-charts. You can't learn your way around the sky if you don't know what you're looking at in the first place.

I wonder if this is some kind of snobbery because Stellarium is free? It may not have some of the advanced features of other applications, but I find it to be intuitive and easy to use, and I'd be lost without it. Maybe that's why it's always being recommended to newbies!

Ignore the nay-sayers and carry on regardless.

[ollypenrice]

Idiots see you using a map and say, 'Aha, you are lost.' That is because they are...idiots.

Olly

[Foton Finder]

Oh Dear, Oh My,

I may be the guilty party who used the term "crutch" in that other post... I'm not sure my meaning was clear, but I certainly meant no offense in any way. (There may even be a slight difference in how that term is used here in the States, as opposed to the UK, but I can't be sure.)

I'd say use whatever tools are at your disposal to enjoy the hobby! I use Stellarium as a planetarium program, though I'm new at it, and not at all skilled yet. In one post there was a discussion of using a feature of Stellarium to reproduce an inverted eyepiece view, which I don't think would be all that helpful for brighter objects which would be clearly visible if the correct field could be centered. If it helps, then by all means use it! I merely meant that it would be more helpful for very dim objects to confirm that you really were looking at the right spot (but couldn't tell which object was the target), but that it would not be of much help in getting a bright object like M-65 or M-3 into the eyepiece. In other words, if it's in there, you'll know it.

If I offended anyone at all, I do apologize. I'll endeavor to be more humble and helpful in the future.

Clear skies,

[Ad Astra]

Hey Brad,

Don't mistake our good natured razzing of each other as acrimony! Especially not in your direction - we want you to feel welcome here!

You didn't start a refractor vs. reflector debate.... did you????

Cheers!

Dan