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I used to use Needless-org for to get a rough idea how good or bad possible dark sites would be but since I've been taking my own sky measurements I've discovered that Needless is way out on its estimations. I know Needless is just a simulation but I used to use it a lot and travel up to an hours drive just to get somewhere that it said was good when I could of stayed a lot closer to home and had just as dark skies. My local dark site Needless says its LM 5.5 but its actual readings from NELM and SQM are more like 6.3! This winter I'II be saving a lot of money in fuel and staying closer to home! Anyone else compared actual on the ground readings to a LP map and had a pleasant surprise?