Deadlake

7 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

 An FC100DF costs around £6 per day over the first year. As the years fly by the Tak price pales into insignificance. 

Until the 100DF mark II comes out and your mate tells you he is going to buy one...😉

6 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I'm not so sure its the Takahashi owners that are insecure 😀

We could ask some AP, LZOS or Baader owners if they are insecure too??? 😉

8 minutes ago, paulastro said:

It's often the case that folks who spend a lot of money on a scope (for example over £2500 for a 100mm doublet apo beginning with the letter 'T' ) feel the need to repeatedly post how great it is. 

Perhaps they feel the need to re-assure themselves they were right in not having bought a scope nearly as good for less than half the price. 🙂

Are you suggesting Takahashi owners are insecure and need to get help 😉

Maybe the fumes of the green paint. 😆

At the end of the day this thread is just about a buyer's opinion on the value of buying a premium refractor.

13 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Yes, I think you might be right about stage of life. But in the opposite sense for me. I spent the vast majority of my observing life with reflectors and SCTs. Now after nearly 50 years, it’s the crisp views through a quality Tak that I yearn for. And earlier in life they were unaffordable to me.

😊

But good quality APO's are more affordable now than say 10 years ago.

At the same time a 4" APO is more space friendly/portable than a Dob, so maybe people are changing there approach??

How sensitive are refractors to seeing and accilmiation when they get over 150 mm in aperture.

100-130 mm APO's are the ultimate grab n'go, but ignoring cost when the refractor gets over 150 mm does it lose it's main advantage as far as setup speed? 

At that point only collimation (which for some mirrored scopes you might every few years) is the difference?

8 hours ago, Robindonne said:

One week later the (interim) score is:

16 yes

4 No

8 50/50

The score should in these categories:

1. Had a non-premium APO and upgraded and thought the premium scope was worth it.
2. Had a non-premium APO, upgraded and didn't see the benefit. 
3. Read the reviews online and bypassed the non-premium APO's

I'm sure some people would suggest other metrics, but the surely its about putting your money down or viewing using a premium scope and saying yes it's better to me?

You might want to read this thread on CN

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/609025-vixen-sxd2-w-starbook-10/?hl= sxp2

Good for 75 mins unguided subs, not that you need but gives you an idea of quality.

For what it’s worth very happy with the SXP2. Starbook Ten very good for visual use and you an always connect via network. Also whisper quite in operation which is helpfully in the summer to use near the house.

SXP2 would hold you current scopes, why go large with AXJ, it weighs a lot more?

The strain wave mounts are great but more a version one, so I would wait.

Also if you look at Japanese dealers they package Takahashi scopes with vixen mounts,if that helps.

16 hours ago, mtminnesota said:

A GOTO motorized tracking kit is now available. They have EQ and alt-az versions. I asked Ted to let me know how each differs in their operation, so I know which one I want, then I'm ordering a second Zero with the kit. Very cool!

https://astrohutech....for-mount-zero/

Any idea on weight support, cannot see any listed?

1 hour ago, Stu said:

I don’t doubt you at all Mike, it’s just that is not my experience. I have the FC100DC, a Vixen FL102S and an Orion Optics 8” f8. On Mars last year, the 8” showed considerably more detail than the Vixen on the same night at similar powers, see this post I made at the time.

If I’m honest, I’ve no idea how you see the level of detail on Mars that you see, as I don’t see that either in my Tak or the 8”, so hats off to you for your observing and sketching skills!

Would the level of light pollution have any difference on viewing?

Vixen HR’s do pullout all the detail as well, near 0.99 Strehl at the centre…

12 hours ago, PeterW said:

I wonder if Frensham carpark is left open? Puttenham feels a bit close to Guildford.

Peter

The Fresnham big pond car park does indeed close at 9 pm, however you can park further up and walk across to one of the main paths. The little pond car park is open 24 hours however you have to walk around the mound.  Its a little cross country to get there, I'd look at Blackdown the other side of Haslemere.

If you are going that far you can travel on a little further to Bramshot common. 

7 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I think that tells you all you really need to know about how good your optics are. Except its nice to push things into the realms of the rediculous, just for the fun of it, which is what I did with my FC100DZ.  While observing a close double using my 1.6mm HR, I wondered how the scope would handle a 2X barlow being thrown into the mix? Honestly, I must have checked I had the 1.6mm HR and not the 3.4mm in the barlow at least three times, as the star images were simply exquisite.  In the DZ the 1.6 + 2× barlow gave 1000X, ( the mount was a driven GP). Whats the point other than for fun? Well if a scope gives textbook star images at 500X  let alone 1000X, you can be pretty certain its at the top of the hill.

I was using this for looking at the moon so no trouble with brightness. Also needs a goto mount as even manual mount with slo mo controls shakes to much to focus. I suspect we look at Strehl to much, RMS and PV also should be considered, quality of the figuring..

2 hours ago, jetstream said:

My point of reference is observing with both scopes mounted on the AZEQ6 and equalized. It doesnt matter when you know what scope your looking at when one takes unlimited mag on the moon and the other goes soft around 350x +/-. On faint nebula its closer but the TSA still comes out ahead contrast wise.

I was observing the moon the other day using the TSA120/Zeiss prism diag and a barlowed Vixen 2.4mm HR... sharp as a razor.  Maybe some SW120ED are better? I don't know.

A Vixen SD103S can take just just under 500x, with a HR 1.6 mm and Zeiss diagonal prims.

15 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Exactly my experience actually.

What temperature?😆

5 hours ago, Commanderfish said:

So would that connect straight onto the back of a Tak without an adaptor or clicklock?

It would connect to a 2” nose telescope side to a T2 diagonal side in theory. I’ll let you know. 

27 minutes ago, Commanderfish said:

That could be great, but it's for a male SC thread... What did you connect that to?

It’s not turned up, it’s for connecting telescope side UFC 2” to a T2 prism

so I can swap between a 2” or T2 diagonal.

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/downloads/dl/file/id/1617/product/1237/baader_star_diagonals_t_2_and_2.pdf

page 16

21 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Especially if it’s -10 C 

🤣

I know some who looks through his TSA-120 at -25 oC and he doesn’t complain about wonky stars….

40 minutes ago, tomato said:

Wow, a branch of visual astronomy that hurts the wallet as much as imaging.

It’s just like looking thru an EP, just black and white. And real-time, no need to spend hours collecting and processing the image. However for most DSO not much colour so don’t think much to miss…. As @PeterW says just need to choose focal length to frame object of interest and of course improves any telescope.

Easier to drag around an NV intensifier and a 9 “ scope then a 24” dob and a ladder… 😃😃😃

Wait until you look at the Moon with a TOE 4 mm, silky smooth views. Highly recommended.

You going to get a turret for the above?

The Star book Ten makes touring the skies very easy doesn't it.

Only criticism is you cannot upload a viewing list of say double stars, have to use another program for that.
 

1 hour ago, Commanderfish said:

Thanks. I would definitely need  2" to T2  adapter at the telescope end (where there's a Baader 2" Clicklock). 

My binoviewers (your old binoviewers, since supercharged by Denis L) have a 1.25" nosepiece.  Guess I would either need a T2 to 1.25" adapter at the Eyepiece end OR a T2 to 2" Baader clicklock and then a 2" to 1.25" adapter.  The Clicklock would be more versatile. 

I imagine there's not a lot of difference in the lightpath between a T2- 2" clicklock (36.6mm plus adapter) and a T2-1.25" nose piece (lighpath not listed)? 

 

 

FLO ordered this custom for me:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-reducing-ring-2i-t-2a-with-15mm-optical-length.html

Maybe you should order intake for the next delivery in two weeks. 

19 minutes ago, GavStar said:

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality. Not sure I’d like to go up against Gerry with his 24 inch one though 😀

 

Is your 16" Dob going to stay on the Isle of Wight or will you bring it back to London light pollution?

Wondering if above a certain aperture with NV you need a darker site? 

1 minute ago, jetstream said:

Like I said, the views  through a big dob make one forget all about obstruction or anything like that. One look at the Veil through my 24" just might convince you

Btw the 24" is 19% obstructed and does not twist up under cooldown.

On the other hand...a C925 is running around 37% obstruction and with a big corrector to deal with thermally.

Or a Mewlon or 10" GSO will cool down quicker. A new F3.3 20" is small enough not to need a rolling ladder...

13 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Reflector owners are mesmerized by the view to the point that they kinda forget who made the mirror😀

On the other hand there is much time for debate among refractor owners IMHO

Not which ladder to buy 😀, parrcor options or effect of obstruction... 😆. 

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Does it matter on DSO?😀

 

Using an NV EP is not so sensitive to a mirror acclimating.  

By the way whereas the refractor guys like to discuss which brand is best don't the Dob owners like to discuss which mirror is best, i.e. I've got a Lockwood Optics mirror???😄 

Same as having a light green telescope.....

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Once healed up and not "draggin a leg"  I can wheel the 24" out in 2 minutes, collimate and view...

How about this?

I'll challenge you to a NV duel- me with the 24" f4.1 -you with the C9.25 and see who gets viewing quicker and sees more!

A 9.25" mirror versus a 24" one, which one will cool down fastest??? Not that you need that so much for DSO's... 😀

14 hours ago, jetstream said:

My offer is still open Mike!

You can view through my TSA 120 and then immediately switch to my 15" and tell me what you see!

I might humbly suggest that if the TSA120 shows more an eye exam might be required!!

But Gerry what are going to see more with your 24" Dob monster or a C9.25 with a NV eyepiece? 😀

I know which one will show more and is more movable and maybe costs less....