Ships and Stars

2 hours ago, Epick Crom said:

Nice report in the freezing cold! I can't imagine -7C 😨. I like the Covid mask hack😂. Clear skies mate!

Lots of coffee and layers! I wore heavy weight wool thermals with an insulated drysuit divers undersuit over that, basically insulated coveralls, but not so baggy, then a down parka, a balaclava and over that, a fleece hood. Was without gloves most of the night, but would pop hands in pockets when not adjusting things. 

Although I'm sick (no pun intended) of seeing COVID masks, they are handy for keeping frost off the finderscope, telrad or eyepiece! A sign of the times...

Hoping to get out again soon. Thanks!

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Nice report! looks like you've had some cold temps but managed to catch many faint fuzzies while keeping the dob safe from Covid! 👍

Not quite Canadian cold, but cold enough! I reached into my coat pocket to get my eyepiece cap, and only had a mask, but works really well, especially on the Telrad! As you say, Covid-safe dob, hahaha....

Hi all,

Apologies for not being on here much lately, I've had no end of problems on the home front combined with so-so weather, but things seem to be getting better and finally got it in gear tonight. I headed for the Cairngorms and the weather played along. An excellent night!

This is the first time I've really given the 300p Flextube dob a workout at my fav spot, aka 'Dark Sky Alpha'  and wanted to see how it stacked up against the mighty Stargate 500p which stayed at home as the van is in for an MOT.  

Arrived late afternoon, plenty of time to set up and watch it slowly turn from a brilliant deep blue sky to night... and no clouds!! The Milky Way stretched from horizon to horizon.

The Observing:

It's very late here (nearly 3am) so I'll cut to the chase:

Best SQM-L reading tonight was 21.81, I'll take it!  

Temp: down to -7.4C, before rising early morning to -4 or -5C. In other words, a wee bit nippy, but at least there was only the slightest of breezes. Lots of well-insulated clothing on, no probs.

Once my eyes were fully dark adapted, I went for the Horsehead using the following: budget 25mm and 32mm Revelation plossls and Astronomik Hb filter, then 13mm XWA. The 32mm provided the most 'pop' even over the 25mm, which tells me my exit pupil was around 6.4mm, or at least larger than 5mm.  The Horsehead was directly observable with the 25mm and especially the 32mm, dare I say almost easy, and faint but observable with the 13mm. Actually pretty impressive views of the Horsey with a 12" scope, especially considering how low in the sky Orion was.

After the Horsehead, I was all over the place visiting the usual suspects, the Flame Nebula, M42 (nice!), Rosette, Flaming Star Nebula and friends in Auriga, over to Andromeda and M110, (M32 was hiding from me), Triangulum M33, Pleiades, M108, M97 Owl Nebula, M51, M101, then into Leo and the Leo Triplet, up to NGCs 3681,84,86 and a few others, then down to M105 & Co. A lot of galaxies in and around Leo, I love this constellation because the galaxies here are generally really easy to find without GOTO. 

Feeling a bit bold, I spent a lot of time, probably 30-40 minutes, trying for Copeland's Septet. I think I picked up some of these faint fuzzies with averted vision, but I won't call it a hit. Fairly sure I was in the right spot. Oh well. Seemed to be a lot of bright stars right around where they should have been.

Anyway, then over to Coma Berenices/Virgo and absolute tons of galaxies around Markarian's Chain, though rather faint in comparison to the 20" dob. Quite a few observed, though I didn't count. Galaxies are where the 20" really pulls away from the 12", with the 20" they are just right there hanging in the sky, but fairly subdued with the 12". Still, I like the wider FOV of the 12" especially for larger nebula, and it's a great all-around DSO scope which is still fairly affordable, portable and definitely lightening fast to set up and start using (non-GOTO).

Binocular time!

The dob mirrors quickly frosted up around 12:30am, so packed things away and broke out the 15x70 Apollos with a TV Nebustar filter on one side and Astronomik OIII on the other. I love filtered binoculars under dark skies!

The Rosette was fabulous and got a nice shot at the Flaming Star in Auriga, even bagged M1 Crab Nebula (!), faint but directly observable. I then decided to take the filters off and go for galaxies. Andromeda was decent, but very low by this point, things were a bit hazy from atmosphere. 

Moving up to cleaner sky, I had excellent binocular views of M51 and M101 and the Leo Triplet. NGC 3628 was quite faint, but M65-6 were right there, no problems! With 15x70s! Binoculars never cease to amaze me. I love scanning around with them, so easy. No tripod, when arms get a bit tired I pop my elbows on the car and keep going. Total freedom. 

I was having a blast and there was a lot more to see, but getting a bit weary by this point, so I reluctantly packed the bins away and headed home. 

The 12" is a great all-around scope, really nice impressive views of the Horsehead, but a bit short in the galaxy department after getting used to the 20" of course, but still a lot of 'bang for the buck' as they say, can't go wrong with the trusty 300p. The binoculars, well, they are simply impressive under dark skies. Even when just scanning, it's like looking at an endless star cluster, thousands upon thousands of stars when panning across the sky, absolutely love it.  

Hoping to get the 20" back out soon and hoover up some more galaxies before spring gets here. Happy stargazing all 👍

PS face masks are a great field-expedient method for quickly covering up your Telrad or EP to keep frost off. Hey, I lost my cap in the car and it was handy. Classy eh? 😁

6 hours ago, scarp15 said:

 Can imagine that it will contribute nicely to the already slightly weird persona of the amateur astronomers night dress code.  

5 hours ago, Pixies said:

My wife thinks I'm mad enough already. If I start wearing red goggles before I go outside, she'll lock the door behind me!

1 hour ago, cajen2 said:

My partner has a similar view. I borrowed her red nail varnish to cover a white headlight set into a woolly hat. She giggles helplessly every time I get togged out to go observing...😄

Indeed!  Tonight I had on a Scubapro undersuit for drysuit diving, with a down parka and a balaclava with a monks-type 'snood' scarf hood thingy, and red goggles of course. Good thing it was dark... 🤣

There are tons of things to see, still a few nebula early evening when some of the milky way is still high up enough (or before sunset). At least at my latitude, 57N in NE Scotland.

Auriga has quite a lot and the Rosette with an OIII filter is excellent.

Check out Stellarium on desktop, or pick up and Sky and Telescope Atlas.

Anything from nebula to galaxies. If conditions are good, there are a lot of galaxies around Leo and esp Coma Berenices. 

Markarian's Chain is a sight to behold under dark skies! 

On 08/09/2021 at 06:28, FenlandPaul said:

Hi all, my sister-in-law works for Visit Cairngorms.  They are looking to run night sky-themed events in recognition of the dark sky statuses of Glenlivet and Tomintoul (and the generally incredible skies in that part of the world).  They are looking for a knowledgeable enthusiast to help run story-telling and stargazing events - something you would be paid for.

If you’re based in that part of the world, or know someone who’d be interested, would you DM me and I can put you in touch?  @Ships and Stars I know you’ve been involved in the past but I can’t recall whether you’re in the wider Highlands or specifically in the Cairngorms national park?

Thanks!

Apologies, I somehow missed this. I believe I talked to her on the phone a while back.

I haven't been on much lately, but getting back into the swing now there's only a month or so of galaxy season left here. Heading out tonight.

Imagine they've found someone, but I live near (not in) the Cairngorms. Tomintoul is up on the NE side, a bit of a drive, but an enjoyable one. 

Best, S&S

Hi all,

For you serious dark adaptation folks out there - I made these last year, mainly for use at home when local lights can zap my dark adaptation when moving around to my scope or if I need to pop inside for something.

I took an old pair of ski goggles and some red film from RVO and simply cut to fit over the lens and used masking tape to hold in place.

This was a temporary job, was going to make a neater fit, but worked extremely well and never tidied it up. These goggles fit over my glasses and are anti-fog.

Won't win any fashion awards (I've seen worse actually) but if you are a visual observer chasing that elusive faint nebula or galaxy and want maximum exit pupil, wearing these for a bit until you take them off at the eyepiece (I also wear a large hood in most cases) makes a big difference, especially under LP.

Out under dark skies, I can pop them on to quickly use my phone to check weather, etc without losing dark adaptation. 

Someone sells safety-glasses style ones, Orion USA I think, but they were like £35 and I already had the film and goggles.

For you film buffs, note their use in Ice Station Zebra. When the submarine goes into battle mode, they all don red goggles for a few minutes before switching off the main lights. A little trivia there!

Happy DSO observing! 👍

On 05/02/2022 at 15:43, Gfamily said:

If the SQM reading is based on astronomical magnitude, a difference of 1 represents a 2.512 difference - as 5 magnitudes represents a 100 fold difference in brightness.

Two and a half times probably makes more sense, I've never fully got my head around sqm, readings vs other night sky yardsticks, but the difference between say 20.2 (home on a dark night in town) and 21.2 (a dark night 15-20 drive outside of town) make a massive difference. I've been under 21.9, about an hour and a half away, and that was incredible. 

1 hour ago, scarp15 said:

The skies were indeed clear around the periods of those named storms, that is a stark account for what could be possible if only change would happen. We did not experience a power cut, although Towns and villages through Northumberland were knocked out again.   

At one point, a lot of the NE here was out - something I probably won't see again! I was the only fool out walking around at 1am in the town carpark, laughing at how dark it was and how brilliant the stars were. 

The change is beyond striking, really a special moment. 

16 minutes ago, tomato said:

Interesting post, if it happened to me I think I would always be thinking back to what my sky could be…

So how do we get everybody within a 20 mile radius to turn off every light after midnight?😏

The sqm numbers only tell a small part of the story, the difference was really incredible. It would take me 40 minutes to an hour plus normally to drive to an equally dark spot in the Cairngorms.

I've been thinking of ways to convince local businesses and homes to switch off as a pilot project, but that's a very hard sell!

I have managed to get one local business to switch off a 7pm and the other at 9pm, long after either are closed, and that literally took a couple of years. Their lights were shining directly at my house though. 

There is a dark sky village in rural Arizona, they only have one rule, 'turn off your g-- ---- lights!'.  I'd like it there! Imagine going over to a neighbour, could I borrow your collimator? I've misplaced mine.

Hi all,

I'm in NE Scotland which as you may have heard, has had back to back storms recently - Storm Malik on Saturday and Storm Corrie which hit late Sunday night.

My town near Aberdeen escaped power outages from Malik, but around 11pm Sun night, Corrie knocked everything out locally, the lights from Aberdeen were the only thing visible in any direction, it was incredibly striking, just a huge glow on the horizon. Aberdeen vaguely reminded me of Mt Etna in Sicily or something on that level, it was so bright in contrast to my surroundings.

The sky cleared and I stood in the centre of the town, with all the constellations in a jet black sky framing the taller structures. This is the brightest part of town, normally bathed in LEDs and any other number of street/commercial and residential lights. Incredible. Not a single light to be seen anywhere.

I immediately took SQM-L readings with the unihedron from home. My best reading ever during lockdown on a very clear moonless night was a 20.38, with 19.9 to 20.1 more the norm after local shops turn off their lights.

I managed to quickly obtain a 21.4 early Monday morning from the exact same spot, and that was with some small patches of faint wispy cloud reflecting light from Aberdeen in the distance.

If sky conditions had been the same as my old 'best' reading of 20.38, then I think it would have easily surpassed 21.5. I think a jump from say 20.00 to 21.00 represents a sky ten times darker, if memory serves me right? Logarithmic scale perhaps? 

I didn't have time to set up either dob, but did easily bag M51 with a pair of handheld 15x70 Apollos. It was a small faint smudge, but directly observable. 

Just goes to show the huge leap between normal and lights out!

My house was freezing the next day with no heat, but was slightly disappointed when power came back on Monday afternoon, as I was going to set up one of the dobs. However, I did enjoy a hot bath!

Great report Iain! I've tried a few nights lately, keep getting the weather wrong. I miss the HH! 

Well done Kon, especially though an 8" under B3 or B4 skies! I've eeked it out with my 12" under 21.5, I think my eyes are starting to reflect my middle age. I've see it many a time though my 20", but my goal this winter is to see it though my 20/40x100 bins with an Hb on one side and TV Nebustar on the other. I live under 20.3sqm on a good night, and have been unable to see it with the 20" from home, which is very frustrating. 

I find strangely sometimes aperture is not the be all, end all, for faint nebulae. The Cocoon is a good example, I couldn't find it with an Hb/25mm plossl on the 20", but immediately picked it up with filtered 15x70 Apollos under 21.7sqm in the Cairngorms one night... go figure. I think it was a matter of low mag and contrast. I still can't explain that one.

Dark adaptation in urban areas is tricky, my eyes never seem to fully adapt unless I go to extreme measures. I took my ski goggles for winter walking and cut some red film from RVO and taped it on the outside. I wear those for 30 min and walk out to the scope with them, then don a hood and hit the ep, they work wonders but frankly, I look like a bit of an idiot  Who cares, no one sees me and it works!  I'd post a pic of the goggles for a laugh, but they are out in shed somewhere...

Congrats on finding the HH with an 8" scope!

4 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

How many threads have we seen on SGL in 2021 about the same issues.
Its so sad.
I can understand a low power LED on a PIR so you can see when you go out in garden at night, for whatever reason, I have to to take the dog out last thing at night but there is no need for what amounts to be enough flood lighting to play football under or to leave them on all night.

One of the threads this year was appalling with somethings like 3 high power floodlights all mounted under the eaves of a two storey house lit up all night.

I would certainly have a chat and say how it affects you and if there is anyway they could switch them off at a certain time even if its just on clear nights, if they are willing to be courteous then they might even give you a mobile number you can text on the nights you have your rig out.
Even mention one light is the main culprit and suggest a better place for it.

Worth a try, they could just totally ignore your requests but many people are still open to negotiation and compromise so certainly worth a try.

Steve

Exactly, properly adjusted PIRs are ok, in fact, if someone intrudes, they rob them of night vision, which is why I set mine on the shortest timer possible. Zap! At the same time, it alerts everyone around someone is there.

Leaving lights on is false logic. 

1 minute ago, Astro Noodles said:

The latest refinement seems to be to have lights which stay on all night. 🤬

I was thinking of a cheap camera mount with some sort of clamp on the top which could hold a piece of card or plywood.

Ask if they are amicable to turning them off after a certain time? PIR motion lights cost like £5 more than fixed mains lights, so it's a shame they did not go that route to begin with. If the lights are preventing you from enjoying your home, there's a case to be made with the local environmental health officer. They will have heard it before from new LEDs shining in bedroom windows, etc. 

I'd try diplomacy before that, but a lot of people don't get it, they want to blaze everyone out and feel slighted if you raise the issue.

Good luck! There are some good legal precedents online for intrusive light pollution. Motion lights are great if adjusted properly, but all-night lights just invite people to come round in my experience. The wrong kind!

I live near a busy local pub, and when the lights in my lane are out from the neighbouring businesses, no one comes back. When they are on, it's a handy toilet...

It's a struggle...

I am inundated with LEDs until the timers on the businesses next to me switch off. It's awful, but after a certain time, it goes dark and I can finally start observing from home. 

I'd buy a tarp from B&Q and rig up a shield with some kind of poles between you and the offending light. Wind is obviously a factor, a tarp is like a yacht sail in a breeze!

If you only need 2ft2, how about clipping a golf umbrella to a post with some big spring loaded clamps?

My normal reaction is to take a ladder and a roll of duct tape to the offending light, but apparently this is frowned upon in general

Hi all, been AWOL for a long time, happy to be back. Hoping to take the 20" out tomorrow night. I have the APM XWAs, 9, 13 and 20mm, plus a 17.5 Morpheus, a 28mm LET, some plossl pairs, (25mm/32mm and 40s for my binoviewer). Also a 10mm BCO and a 31mm Baader 2".  I had a few Ethos but was afraid I'd drop them or lose one out in the countryside. The 21mm Ethos is awesome as you'd expect, but I got the three XWAs for what I sold it for. Also had the 13mm. Superb. The XWAs aren't far off in my opinion, even after side by side tests. I can tell a slightly narrower FOV with the 20mm XWA vs the 21mm Ethos, but... it came down to money as always.

I only have one 2" filter, (OIII) so my Hb, TV Nebustar, UHC and small OIII filters are all 1.25" which means I have to use what's available in the 1.25" filter range depending on what I'm looking at and exit pupil.

So long story short, I love the XWAs, 9/13/20mm. One of my dobs is f4.5, the other is f4, so for faint DSOs I try to find the right mag with an exit pupil around 4-6.5mm. 

Observing galaxies don't require filters, just dark skies, so enough mag vs decreasing exit pupil becomes the name of the game for me.

Your tripod is a work of art! Mine was made out of scaffold tubing some builder left behind in a back lot years ago. It gives a new meaning to the term 'agricultural' :).  I see you are Tayside, without asking specifics, I'm up in Aberdeenshire btw but was working in St Andrews last week and spent half the summer outside Carnoustie, before that, Broughty Ferry. I've worn a path down the A90 this year!  Beautiful work on the tripod!

23 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Great report and unless in your location you can make something of the May dark sky period, a good conclusion to the season. I think as Gerry has mentioned, perhaps if you could pick up something like a Delos 8mm, the transmission gain, could be good to contrast with any subtle enhancement compared with your current eyepiece at a similar focal length on these testing subjects. 

 

Hi Iain! Yes I was thinking even something with a tiny bit more magnification would help - I've heard so many good things about the Delos, I have to try one. I might try once more this new moon and see if I can chase anything up!

16 hours ago, mdstuart said:

Great report. Those skies sound fantastic.

Just amazing what can be seen with the right telescope in the right location in the right hands. You packed a months observing in to one night!

Mark

Hi Mark, thanks very much! I wish I could have left the scope up and tried this again on successive nights. It would bolster confidence in what I did see and what I 'thought' I saw. I bet I was totally off on HCG 57 - if some of the were mag 13 they should have jumped out under those conditions. I bet the GOTO was slightly off after the scope settled a bit on the ground. Should have started with the 20mm and moved in from there... I wrote a list in advance, so was able just to punch them in the GOTO and slew over in fairly rapid succession...when it's accurate that is!

15 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Sounds superb, definitely makes me want to get to a dark spot. Some great targets too, enjoyed reading that. 🙂

Thanks very much, it was great to finally get back out under some really dark skies, makes such a huge difference.

2 hours ago, Captain Magenta said:

I guess two out of three ain’t bad 😉

I use 'averted imagination' to locate most of my targets! No it's a bit frustrating after the fact, I'm really doubting myself now on a couple. Ack well, something to revisit. I imagine after a solid ID on some of these, they will be easier to relocate in the future and pull some more detail from them. I have to really work for these, good stuff!

2 hours ago, GavStar said:

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality. Not sure I’d like to go up against Gerry with his 24 inch one though 😀

 

That's impressive! Were those taken under urban or rural skies? Either way, I've got to try NV.

What about NV on a larger dob? I imagine that would be mind-blowing.

I'm considering putting something from the NV world on my 20". The 500p weighs 75-85kg all in, but breaks down quickly into smaller parts and sets up in about 15 minutes if I'm really moving fast.  I don't need a ladder per se, just a step about 20-30cm high to view at zenith. I feel like I am starting to find the limits of what I can see with my 20" under dark skies, which is an awful lot, but there are also tons of very faint galaxies I'd like to see in more detail and I'd also like to see a lot more from my 20.25-35ish SQM-L home if I can't drive to my rural spots.  Gerry does have the benefit of being able to wheel his dob out under dark skies right at home, so his mirror might not need a lot of cool down if his storage area is more or less unheated, or at least considerably colder than the interior, plus he has wolves to keep him company  which is honestly rather spectacular!

Now for larger extended objects, NV on something with a shorter focal length like my 12"  (300mm/1500mm) flextube would presumably show a lot as well. Even binoculars...

I suspect in the future NV will continue to edge into the realm of mainstream astronomy, but there will always be the big reflector crowd, the direct, natural naked eye views are amazing, but the option to add NV if desired would produce a real powerhouse I'd imagine...

Interesting to think about, I wonder how the image quality of NV compares though to naked eye astronomy (i.e. looking through eyepieces)? I imagine there would be flicker and much lower resolution. I seem to recall the human eye can see about 300dpi on average, maybe a bit more.

Anyway...fun to think about

4 hours ago, John said:

I think having doubts over observations is very much part and parcel of observing towards the edge of what the conditions / scope / observer can deliver. Thats what sends us back out again !

Interesting how often the "2nd time around" is so much easier though

At the time, I'm thinking 'got it'! Then even after jotting down notes etc, a week or two later I start thinking was I wanting it to happen, or did I really see it? From my limited experience, totally agree, second time around should set things straight. I'll try the 20mm APM to locate, given the much larger FOV and exit pupil. My GOTO is generally close but not always spot on within the inner 1/2 of the 20mm, so at 13 or 9mm, even with 100deg EPs, I can easily start hunting in the wrong direction. Especially given the scope can settle in the ground even a few mm as the night progresses and move things around!

2 hours ago, Captain Magenta said:

I’ll be getting Robert’s 500p when his wife sticks it on eBay 😉

Fortunately she doesn't use ebay! After the 500p was gone, she'd put me on there as a free sack of fertiliser, collection only, haha

19 minutes ago, Epick Crom said:

Great report Robert! Now that's one huge light bucket you got there, sounds like a blast! Keep enjoying the night sky👍

It is a lot of fun when out under dark, clear skies. It spoils me, but the views... Ironically I find using 15x70 binoculars with filters on large extended objects is a blast as well. Even on tricky stuff like the Cocoon Nebula. So easy to scan the sky- I use them handheld unless really teasing out details on specific objects. Still, I like the ability of a scope to use much higher magnifications.

My plan was to find another 500p second hand at the right price and make a binoscope, but it would be a nightmare to transport and set up without driving a full size transit around.

I may dabble with EEVA on the 20", that would open up a whole new level. I need to save some money for a decent set up with filters however...

My main suggestion for people with binoculars or scopes of any size would be to head out to dark sky sites when possible, even if it's only once or twice each 'observing season'. 

I wish we didn't lose astro darkness here over the summer, I have a lot of catching up to do!

6 hours ago, John said:

Great report - I really enjoyed reading that

Despite having "back yard" skies and a max aperture of 12 inches to use I love to press deep into the sky as far as my conditions / scope will allow.

I have managed to see the 4 members of the Leo Quartet and one or two of the brightest members of some of the other groups you mention. It is a thrill when you pick up one of these very faint and distant smudges of light

Indeed, I always have to laugh afterwards how much effort we put into trying to detect, let alone observe, these objects. Still, when you know you've seen something millions of light years away with the naked eye and some glass it's always a bit of a moment. HCG61 was probably my fav, that looked wonderful. I am having nagging doubts now I was even lined up on 51 and 57 as I definitely saw 79 which seemed brighter, but Vogel says it's much more challenging...

I'll have to wait to pick this up, HCG57 will probably be the first one I can see in autumn skies.

To be continued  

11 minutes ago, jetstream said:

There are many that do the "armchair" mirror analysis using many references of test, zygos, star test and who knows what. The fact is that your scope is showing you so much more than any " high spec" smaller mirror could. I support my statement by de collimating  my 24" a good bit and then putting it up against my 15" very well collimated- and yes the 24" still shows more of everything DSO wise. 

Excellent report Robert and keep up the good work!

ps- Stephans Quintet likes good seeing, not just transparency. Under these conditions I use 357x on it with a very good copy of a 7mm KK ortho. This really opens the object up. My 8mm Delos does vg as well.

Thanks Gerry! Good to hear from you. Sorry I've been off the forum quite a lot lately, working away and family keeping me busy at home.

Interesting experiment between the 24 and the 15. Sounds right!

I wish I'd have read Vogel's observations just before I left that night. There is a good chance I flat out missed a couple of these and landed on some other faint galaxy close by. Stephan's Quintet in particular should have been more obvious in my mind, albeit still faint. That's ok, I will definitely return to these objects next time. 

The box was really good, that's one many people should be able to observe under decent skies. 

I can't believe Vogel has seen all 100 HCGs, that's dedication! I'm definitely printing out his observing reports or picking up a copy if he has a guide published.

Wished I'd had it with me, but in a rush as always

1 minute ago, Captain Magenta said:

I bet you’re glad you went straight in at the deep end all those months/coupleofyears ago and arrived home with a 20”. We certainly are! I’m in the market for a similar sized dob and you are providing lots of inspiration not to mention obs lists!

Thanks

Magnus

No regrets at all! Just luck I ended up with it. When I was looking for my first scope, work was really busy and an unused 500p came up at a good price. I thought a.)  I may never be able to lift this when I get older, b.) my eyes won't get any better, and c.) I may end up living in an urban area again. That settled it!

I haven't regretted the purchase a a single moment. The 500p seems to get poor reviews for mirror quality, but I've seen so many challenging faint objects, and so many amazing, detailed views of brighter objects that I've no real complaints at all. Little things like the mirror cover and goto drive cable attachments could be improved, but it's all tolerably small details.

I hear they've redesigned the 500p primary with fused mirror supports or something to that effect, but I think I got lucky with mine. Besides, at f4, collimation is pretty critical, especially at higher mag I suppose, but it holds collimation very well. 

Now I'm hoping EEVA comes down a bit in price, it would even work really well with my 300p flextube.  

I'd say go for the big scope, take good care of it and enjoy. You will get to see things only a relatively small number of people have seen before and if the day comes that you need to sell it, the resale value will remain, especially if bought second hand. 

Cheers !