Ships and Stars

And thanks! Glad to be thinking about astronomy again, it's been a wild year thus far! Work is picking up once more at least.

Ah it was for the big dob, I sat it on the base when levelling, then would rotate the base to make sure it was level when doing alignments. Alt-az mount, so just keeping things tidy so the go-to was performing as well as it could.

I'm using the same ones, bought a 3-pack I think online for next to nothing. Seem to do the trick nicely all-around.

Hi all, been ages since I was on here, hope everyone is doing well. I'm counting down the days once more to true darkness here at 57N-ish. August 12th is the first evening the sun dips more than 18deg below the horizon, so the official start of observing season once more and the nights will rapidly get longer from there of course. Haven't been up to much astro-related over the summer, bought some second-hand Pentax 20x60s bins which are absolutely brilliant, by far my favs out of the four pair in the inventory. I removed and gently cleaned the 20" mirror on the 500p over the summer with tap water in the bath tub (big mirror! haha) and am keeping the leisure battery charged. I'd like to try and catch Neowise soon before it disappears. Don't know how quickly that will happen, but from home I can't see it easily due to buildings etc. Anyway, thought I'd check in and see what everyone is up to. Hoping to train the 300p on Neowise soon, need to read up more on timings and location. Cheers, S&S

Good call on the 300p! Welcome to the '300p club' haha. I bought a 300p flextube (non-GOTO) from FLO as well back in January I think. I love it, and that's from someone who also has a Stargate 500p. The 500p is no doubt pretty awesome, but for setting up quickly, the 300p is a doddle and not having to do an alignment etc, you are up and running quickly in minutes. It's also a doddle to 'steer' by hand with light pressure. I have also 'detected' the Horsehead from a fairly dark site with the 300p, so it is no doubt a capable scope. My best lunar views are with the 300p and binoviewers. Oh and the trusses have two presets, you'll notice them catching or clicking once on the way up before it's fully extended, that's the binoviewer preset so you don't need a barlow or glass path corrector with binoviewers and can get the full field of view - a really nice touch. Just to complicate things on the eyepiece front, I am a big fan (fairly certain most everyone on SGL has figured that out by now 🤣) of the APM XWA 100 degree range and have the 20mm/13mm and 9mm. They are an absolute bargain compared to the other 100 degree eyepiece offerings out there and are compact with excellent optical quality for the price. I rarely use any other eyepieces now in my case and that includes the 17.5mm Morpheus which I keep mainly for the Horsehead or smaller Hb targets like the Cocoon. If I didn't go APM, I'd go Morpheus though, really happy with mine. The Tele Vue stuff is brilliant too, but getting seriously pricey as we all know and there's some good competition out there now from Baader, APM etc. PS make sure you've put the 2" (or 1.25") extension tube into the focuser - that may cause you to not reach focus depending on which eyepiece you are using. Most eyepieces need it from my experience. Have fun!

After much consideration, I went all Astronomik and use a 2" OIII and OIII/UHC/Hb in 1.25". Didn't bother with any sort of sky-glow or light pollution filters, think the UHC tackles that job better anyway. In order of most frequently used for me, it's OIII, then Hb, then UHC. Usually the Hb is the least commonly used, but I like hunting for the dark nebulae with mine. All except the Hb were second-hand due to price. The 2" in particular are not cheap to say the least, and I felt lucky to find an OIII second-hand in like new condition. The 2" OIII is my fav, especially for larger nebulae. The Veil in particular is just stunning under dark skies with this and a wide low-mag 2" EP. I used the 21E when I had it, but the 20APM will have a turn in about three long months or so! The Hb works well on the Horsehead Nebula. I usually pair that up with a 17.5mm Morpheus. Perhaps surprisingly, I don't really use the UHC much, though it's good at revealing different levels of detail on objects like M42, all depends really. One issue I have with my UHC is that the stars will separate into green and red partially-overlapping points of light like there is some difficulty in focusing those two wavelengths in the colour spectrum or something. It's not horrendous, but once you notice it, it becomes more intrusive. Could be something with the f4 scope not merging light rays, but can't remember where I read about this phenomenon. At any rate, I call it the 'Christmas Effect'. Because I also use binoculars with filter threads, I'll mix 1.25" filters on different targets, i.e. UHC on one side and OIII on the other, or OIII/Hb, etc. The result is quite interesting, the brain merges the two images and seems to pick the best detail from both, sort of like having a 'super filter' system. In the future, I'd like to try the cheapest OIII/UHC and Hb that pop up second-hand against the Astronomiks and see if there is really that much difference. Same for a DGM NPB/cheapo brand-x/Astronomik shootout some night. I'd add Lumicon, but I'm hardly rich! Someone on here said they could see (detect?) the Horsehead with their cheap Hb, so perhaps I wouldn't sweat it too much if you don't want to fork out for Astronomik/TV/Lumicon at first, but I'm curious what sort of difference there is. If you buy the top ones though, there's not much second-guessing about quality and if you are getting the best view possible. Some of the cheap filters I hear can be terrible, as is the odd 'good' one. The DGMs are next on the shopping list, been wanting some for ages. If I was starting out, I'd splash out on a good OIII filter in 2" and build from there. The 2" OIII is sort of the workhorse filter for many.

Excellent point - just swapped it out. Not much clearance in there, thank you Don! 👍

That sounds about right, but a lot of that goes into the focuser. They're not too heavy either. No problems with a CC in either my single or dual speed SW focusers in the 300/500p.

It's the right time of year for something astro-related to be on backorder. I won't have true darkness here in NE Scotland again until mid-August at the very earliest, and that will be accompanied by a swarm of midgies in the countryside, as I found out the hard way last year. It was a horror show throughout the night without a stiff breeze! You could try the 13mm in the meantime and see how you get on?

If work was steady and I was viewing from home, it would be second-hand TV as there's really no second-guessing quality and innovation. The 21E was slightly more immersive to use and in fairness, I only spent one night (albeit intensively) comparing the 21E and 20APM. There is a considerable weight savings with the 20APM as well, but the feeling of quality is not lacking, it's still a substantial eyepiece. I never looked closely at the ES92s, but then again, don't recall any coming up second-hand and that's normally how I shop. The 17mm sounds intriguing, but I won't be rushing out to buy one. Like @John says, eyepieces are a personal thing. Some don't care for the Leica zoom, but I loved mine and hated to sell it. I had to at the time to round out the XWA collection while still paying the bills. Not sure of the availability of the 20mm APM at the moment, astroshop is saying Aug 1 for delivery and direct from APM is similar. Someone else might have them in stock though. If you didn't like it for some reason, don't think you'd have much problem shifting it!

I can't tell you about the ES offerings, but used to own the Tele Vue 21E and 13E (and a Leica ASPH zoom) and subsequently replaced those with the APM 20mm, 13mm and 9mm XWAs. I use them in both f4.9 and f3.95 scopes (12" and 20" SW dobs) Before I sold the 21E, I spent hours one night swapping back and forth, over and over, between the 21E and the 20APM, to the point I couldn't remember which one was in the focuser without feeling around in the dark. The 21E had a slightly wider FOV than the one mm difference suggests, and seemed to snap to focus slightly easier than the APM. The TV eyecup is softer and lower profile, I have to kind of lean in a bit with the APM eyecup or fold it down. The 20mm APM is c.33% lighter at 680g vs 1020g for the 21E. There is a corresponding size difference as well. Optically, I could see no discernible difference between the 21E and 20APM side by side, even viewing stars at the extreme edge of the FOV at f4.9. The APM did not seem better than the Ethos optically, but it's close, very close in my humble opinion. By the way, I was using an ES HR coma corrector, the CC settings for the 21E and the 20APM were virtually identical. The 20mm APM is £240.00. The 21mm Ethos is £819.00 as you are probably aware. That is a huge difference. Like ES, I suppose with the APM XWAs there is the ethical question of copyright and/or copying TVs design, but I don't know to what extent the designers of APM have done this. After testing the 20APM, I ordered the 13mm and 9mm siblings the following morning and the 21E went on ABS. I wasn't sure at first about ordering the 9mm, but it turned out to be a great move. It's killer on small galaxies, PN and lunar, and I've used it a lot more than I thought I would. If I had a home obsy, I might have kept the 21E and 13E, but I'm always dragging my scopes around Scotland in a rush to various dark-sky spots and the thought of dropping the 21E some night after tripping on a rock, or even losing it somehow when packing up and heavily fatigued in the dark was a constant point of concern and stress which took away from the experience. At 1/3rd to 1/4th the price, I do not have that stress with the APMs! While I do not have anywhere near the overall experience as John, Don and Gerry, et al have, I don't regret for a second buying the 20/13/9mm APMs. They are my go-to eyepieces.

I try to buy everything second hand and then look after it well, that way there's no real hit on depreciation. I'm now at the point I have two dobs and a nice, but not over the top, eyepiece collection, with three main eyepieces that cover 95% of my observing. All sorted on binoculars! As long as I stay away from astrophotography...

Pentax 20x60 S-series WP binoculars from ABS arrived just over a week ago, I've used them non-stop, mainly on ships and boats though have done some lunar. I seriously, seriously love these binoculars and primarily use them handheld, wearing glasses, with no issues. Compact power and quality sums it up. The optics are the closest thing to perfection I have used, despite the somewhat limited 2.2deg FOV which isn't at all bad like it sounds - probably a function of their small overall size. CA is very well controlled I though and only visible on high contrast views if you hunt for it. Feeling a bit greedy now with the growing collection, but each pair have their own niche. The 12x70 Celestrons (cheap and cheerful with glasses, decent optical quality and light-gathering ability) the 15x70 Apollos (heavy at 2.5kg but great FOV and take filters) and the 20/40x100 Helios Quantums (filters+aperture and power but quite a rig) The Pentax 20x60 are perfectly sized for my hands and weigh only 1.4kg, the same as the Celestrons and well below the c.2.5kg of the Helios Apollos. Will try and do a write up later in the binocular discussion section. PS apologies for the horrendous lens distortion on my phone which quickly and easily turns any circle into a nice ellipse! All the bins look squat or stretched out as a result, except in the centre of the frame.

I think the Pros are fully coated optics vs 'multi-coated' for the regular binos. I don't think there's a lot more to them then that, but not 100% sure. The tripod mount and of course rubber outer shell are slightly different. I've only used an older pair of 12x70 Celestrons and a pair of 25x100 Skymaster obsy bins. I find them decent for the money even when compared to higher end binoculars like 15x70 Helios and Pentax, though these do start to pull away in quality. I sold the 25x100s because I couldn't reach focus in one eye due to the limit of dioptre adjustment but it was very close. Still have the 12x70s, great widefield views with tons of eyerelief for glasses. I'd be happy trying either the standard 20x80s or pros if not a lot more. Hopefully someone on here will provide a direct comparison!

Before lockdown, I did almost all my observing from rural spots, frequently staying in my small van overnight. My trick up here in NE Scotland is to go to the Walkhighlands website for hill walkers using a PC or laptop, scroll down to the interactive map, hover over it with the mouse and find the area you want to view from, and see what walks are shown on their maps. They will include the start location which is normally a rural carpark or large passing place well away from busy roads. The hillwalkers carparks/parking places are normally great as locals are used to seeing non-local cars parked up there and don't blink, plus they are generally fairly isolated and quiet. Another trick is to go to Pastmap (interesting in itself if you like archaeology), click on Scheduled Monuments (i.e. Bronze Age cairns, Neolithic standing stones, Iron Age hillforts, etc) in the left toolbar, the zoom in on the map to the area you want to view from. Some of the more famous, more spectacular Scheduled Monuments are very popular with day trippers and will also have their own little carpark in rural isolated areas which is open to all and almost always free.

That was me on the carrots topic a while back. While they don't give you 'extra' dark adaptation over normal eye health, they help ensure dark adaptation is functioning properly, that's why I eat them. Red peppers also. The carrots/night vision aspect comes from WWII when British pilots didn't want the Germans to know about radar, they leaked false information saying carrots were giving them greatly enhanced night vision. Agree on the breathing, the eyes require a good flow of oxygen to work at top efficiency.

Oh that one's pretty low - I just used Stellarium, haven't seen M83 before. I just checked now and it's only about 8 deg above the horizon max around 10:50pm. Not sure if earlier/later in the year changes this much?

I see the US website offers DGM NBP 'seconds' in a 2" and 1.25" set for $165 US. According to DGM they have slight pinholes or 'sleeks' in the coatings which have zero impact on optical performance. Or 'perfect' ones for $205.00 US. No idea what HMRC would slap on top of that! Maybe 20%? I'd think a set of seconds would run about £165 all in. http://www.npbfilters.com/seconds.html

Ah right, excellent so you know the area. I've not been through there I can remember. I lived in the midlands for about 6 or 7 years before moving to Scotland, but mostly went to the Peak District. I don't think 21.76 will be much difference from 21.71. They're both well within what I would look for at a minimum for quality sky darkness. Defo try and stay away from direct lighting, I know it's hard. There always seems to be that one place somewhere really dark that has an unshielded 1,000 gigawatt beacon outside their door! I never asked what scope you were using? My goal this coming winter is to see it with my 40x100mm observation binoculars with an Hb filter on one side and UHC on the other. I reckon I have a decent shot on the right night. The story goes on CN some fellow in Florida claims to have seen it with 15x70s with Hb filters taped on! A few other musings I never got to put in my first post - once you've seen the HH, it becomes easier to see it from then on, and with smaller scopes. Folks are right - if you can see the flame nebula, then you have a good shot at the HH. In fact, once you've seen the HH on that night, don't forget to go back to the flame and spend some time on it - it's really cool. I think Iain pointed that out in a post before. I was so obsessed with the horsehead, I didn't stop to appreciate the flame nebula which is more engaging anyway. The HH is cool though once you've clocked it! Also if there are other faint objects in the area, if you can see the HH then it's of course a good night to see those too. Personally, I find the Cocoon nebula harder than the HH, I still can not say 100% I have seen the Cocoon! The Hb filter will come in handy for other nebulae too. All the visual DSO crew here on SGL helped me with advice, especially Iain and Gerry, John and a whole load of other people 👍 Iain - mine have calmed down temporarily! I have to do stuff when I get the chance, it's not easy, haha. That's good advice on M1, it's directly observable, but still fairly faint, a good warmup before B33 to get into the groove. It figures police show up with a torch when looking for the HH! Maybe they got a tip-off I'm looking forward to the HH again, but we've had some nice weather lately.

Hi Steve, Lots of good info above and good idea to think ahead for this one. The HH was a biggie for me so I spent a lot of time planning. Looking back at notes/reports, November 29th last year was the first time for me. It was something I had been really wanting to bag. I saw it a number of times between Nov and Feb, conditions permitting. Even once through binoviewers! There's a long-winded report here on that under deep-sky observing. I used both a 12" and a 20" dob with either a 17.5mm Baader Morpheus or 27mm Orion flat edge EP and Astronomik Hb. With the 12" dob under 21.5-6 SQM I could just 'detect it' for fleeting glimpses until eye fatigue won and I stopped. I never saw it with direct vision. The 20" dob under 21.85+ SQM - bang, right there, but still a very, very dim scene, you have to let it soak in with excellent dark adaptation. Preparation: - I used Stellarium on a desktop PC in 'ocular view' with a 17.5mm Morpheus to get an exact FOV through the eyepiece, and I think this tool makes a big difference. Keep Alnitak well out of the FOV when thinking about EPs and FOV. Alnitak is way too bright. - Stellarium is very, very handy. You'll have to manually enter your scope's aperture and focal length, and manually enter all the specs for the eyepieces you want to try on it, but once you do this, the scope and EPs will be in your Stellarium 'ocular library'. A fun tool. - Again, I wanted Alnitak completely out of the FOV. It's very bright. I try not to even look at it on the way to the HH. - I also downloaded several good astro photos of the HH and surroundings to learn the stars to hop from. - Remember if using a dob, things will be upside down. - Good call on the Astronomik Hb filter - that's what I use. - Weather - try for a night when the Met Office, FLO Clear Outside and Ventusky are all in agreement for clear skies, as you'll have to make a fair journey for dark enough skies. - Dark skies, dark skies, dark skies. A somewhat educated guess, partially based on sites I have seen it from - at least 21.5 SQM, preferably 21.6 or more. I have tried numerous times under 20.3 SQM at home with a 20" dob and never felt like I was even close. Don't know your range, but pick the darkest place you can find within an hour or two of home unless you're really lucky on location!! Car parks for hillwalkers are a fav of mine. Make sure you can park there, perhaps visit in advance. Nothing worse that driving half the night and find it's rubbish or not accessible! Garsdale/Garsdale Head in the Yorkshire Dales shows 21.76 SQM and looks potentially the best spot nearest to Burnley. Viewing using every trick (I know) in the book: - Carrots help boost rhodopsin. Probably overkill, but I eat half a carrot a day as soon as I see a weather window approaching. - On the day, avoid bright lights if you can, especially LEDs and intense direct sunlight before heading out on the big night. Wear sunglasses in the daytime, etc. - Know the time of night (using Stellarium again) when the HH is highest in the sky. Closer to zenith = less atmosphere to deal with and that bit darker skies if you are unsuccessful early on in the evening. Even ten degrees higher makes a nice difference I think. - Dark adaptation! No phones, no nothing for at least 20/30min. I even cover the red LEDs on my power supply. I also wear a hood and I consider it an absolute must for maximum contrast. Get comfortable and have fun. - Keep several different focal length eyepieces to hand so you can quickly swap without fuss at the scope if one doesn't work for you. I don't know what scope you are using but yes, exit pupil around 5mm is a good starting point. - The immediate area of HH is really easy to find, but knowing exactly where to look will add a great deal of confidence and eliminate potential frustration and head-scratching, driving home wondering if you really saw it or just think you saw it (note - speaking personally here!) The photo below is what I use. Dropping down from Alnitak, there will be a pair of stars, a gap, then two sets of two stars. Draw an imaginary line from star 1 to star 2, and the HH will fall inline about 1/3rd of the way between them. I will try and update this, I've more to add, but I've a wife and two kids screaming at me for the past 20 minutes while I type and I have to take a break. Hope this helps.

This is brilliant, thank you very much for writing all of this up! I'm on a tight budget at the moment, so trying hard not to make any fundamental mistakes on purchases. There will likely be enough other mistakes or wrong turns along the way... We are on the same page with the primary mirrors. I'd start smaller than 12" but since I have the 300p, I'll try for that. Perhaps a bit ambitious, but we'll see I suppose. I didn't even think about the smell of pitch - that could be a big problem at home. I'm lucky enough in that I have a JSP respirator from metal working and sandblasting, and bought some replacement P2 cartridges before they were wiped off the shelves back in early March. They are hot items these days, can't believe the prices. All the tips on dental ceramic and tools are excellent, especially the spray bottle, that's something I'd find out the hard way in the middle of grinding no doubt. The measuring tools will be another thing to hunt for online and something to ponder for a while. There was actually a mirror grinding machine on ABS a while back, wasn't terribly expensive, but looked like it had a few hard miles on it. I like the sound of the gin-powered test stand build! Again, can't thank you enough for writing all of this. I just need to take the plunge and order from Stathis on Monday. I have realised this is an itch that is not going away. I hope you are able to get yours sorted in time for autumn, I'm not setting any hard, fast timeline for mine, but I'm hoping to move fairly quickly on it when everything is lined up. All the best for now - I'll keep an eye out for updates here 👍

Oh wow! Excellent, thank you very much, please drop me a line when you're sorted, no rush of course. Loch Rannoch and Glencoe must have been amazing though harsh weather at times, I like those sorts of conditions though. The midgies are one thing I struggle with, get a bit of a reaction! Your scope will be tremendous under those skies as you are no doubt aware. My good spot is in the Cairngorms, but it will be late August at least before I'm taking the big dob back out to the countryside. I would love to be able to set it up somewhere near home on a farm or estate perhaps. Thanks as well for the info on the Nexus! Work has been quite slow so that would be on hold anyway. Hopefully things pick up soon and hope you find another place near Rannoch. A friend inherited a small family cottage near the Skye bridge, I always let them know how lucky they are!!

Hi there, looking good! I've been wanting to try mirror grinding since last winter, but never took the plunge. I also made my way to Stathis online. His prices seem good. My end goal is to make a very large mirror someday perhaps. Someday... Since I already have a 12" SW flextube dob, I was thinking about making a 12" f4.9 or f5 copy, so I could just swap out mirrors for star tests etc, and not have to buy a secondary mirror/build another complete dob etc, until I was sure it was right optically. Then if I got it right enough to put into action, I could perhaps fabricate something like a 12" travel dob etc. Could I please ask off the back of your hard-won knowledge - any tips on what to buy from Stathis or what you would do differently regarding materials, tools or testing equipment? Wondering if I need 2x 12" blanks, or if I could get away with using a smaller blank as a tool, perhaps an 8" even. I'd buy his grinding and polishing supply kits as well. I have a good digital caliper and lots of drill bits, but that's about it. No optical test bench etc. I have an air compressor and angle grinder etc and lots of hand tools/air tools. I read glasspusher's excellent thread as well, but need a refresh. Good luck there! Looks like you are on track 👍

BVs are great, aren't they? My best lunar views hands down are through my second hand WO binoviewers. They're not generally well regarded for DSOs, but I viewed M51 with them a few days ago under moderate light pollution and even saw the horse head nebula with them through a large scope under very dark skies late last year. I started with the 20mm 66deg WO eyepieces and later added 25/32/40mm pairs of Revelation plossls. Enjoy!

Excellent idea!!