Girders

Anyone out there using BST Starguider eyepieces with a generic smartphone adapter? Was planning to upgrade one or two of my stock SW eyepieces for use on my SW 127 Mak but I've just realised that the shape may mean they can't be used with a phone holder. Has anyone tried using these with a standard 'clamp' style holder? I think this is the one I have (or very similar). It's not so much that I need the ability to use the phone for images, but my six year old daughter finds it easier to view on the phone screen than looking down the eyepiece - and it means I can see what she is seeing and not left worrying she hasn't seen it properly through the eyepiece. Thoughts, comments and suggestions very welcome please....

Just asked my 6 year old daughter to choose the best of her 4 or 5 Space Books and it was no contest - DK Knowledge Encyclopedia Space! She's been interested in al things Space since she was just under 4, so has worked her way up to this through simpler picture books so it might not be the best for jumping right in, but it's very detailed and has loads of facts, tables and information which is the kind of style she loves. The Amazon link above lets you look through some of the pages for an idea of the content. I know you asked about books, but throughout lockdown we've taken great advantage of YouTube resources - particularly Maddie & Greg's Lets Go Live has been brilliant for science and nature and did a week of episodes on the solar system. Space week Episode one can be watched here. We also loved the talks from Cambridge University Astronomy - not sure the order matters but here is their one on the Solar System. Lastly, I've found nothing inspires her imagination more than being able to hold real things. We discovered when trying to help her interest in dinosaurs that we could buy small fossils of a decent quality for £10 - £15 and similarly for her interest in Space she's got a couple of meteorites . Hope that's of some use. I'd *really* recommend Maddie & Greg if you haven't discovered it already - a lifesaver for us during lockdown - 30 minute shows but filled our whole days with makes and experiments.

Hi Craig, Firstly, I think it's brilliant that this is something you want to do with your granddaughter. I bought my first scope in 2017 when my daughter just turned 4 and had a big interest in all things "Space". I started with a Heritage 114 mini dobsonian, so only very slightly bigger than the Heritage 100 suggested above which comes in on budget. It will give you great views of the moon, but planets will be tiny. On a good night you'll (just about) see Jupiter's bands and Saturn's rings. So yes, what you are asking is achievable for your budget (but a little extra can make a big difference). Usually when I'm commenting on my experience with my daughter I advise people to go for a scope with tracking motors at least (computerised GoTo is an added extra but not essential). This means that once set up with care and lined up with a planet etc in view it will stay in view. At the magnifications required targets will quickly drift out of view - certainly by the time you 'switch in' your granddaughter to view and coax her how to see through the eyepiece. BUT, I think as she's *so young* I would advise on giving up on using the eyepiece for her at all. Get a smartphone adapter you can put on the end and let her view on that. My wee one now aged 6 still finds it the best way to view anything. It also means you can ignore any requirement for tracking as you'll be able to gently move the scope and see on the phone screen to keep it in view. It also means you can be sure what she sees instead of hoping she's managed to see something in the eyepiece. But now I have to offer some harsh lessons from my real life experiences. Firstly, the planets are rarely visible at suitable times for young children. Most of my own good sessions have been between 11pm and 5am! Over the last 2/3 years my little girl has probably managed 8 or 9 sessions with the telescope - mostly looking at the moon with maybe 2 or 3 where she got to see a planet or two (one of which we woke her up for well after midnight!). And keep in mind that this was when we have her with us all the time. If you are 'borrowing' your granddaughter your opportunities will be even more restricted - although your weather may well be better than mine in Glasgow! And a few final thoughts... Without wanting to discourage you, I've found there are better ways to engage my daughter's love of space than having her out in the cold for an often unsatisfactory viewing experience. There are amazing fact books on space for kids, "Lets Go Live" on Youtube with Maddie Moate and Greg Foot did a wonderful week of Space themed shows for 3-8 year olds you can still view, or you can pick her up a real meteorite for £10-£15 - what little girl wouldn't love her own shooting star? I haven't regretted a minute the time and money I've spent over the last few years - probably £500 including accessories an and upgrade to a new scope - but it's been worth it for the enjoyment *I've* had more than she has had. In the years to come she'll get more out of it, but so far ages 4 to 6 probably not much. And without upsetting lots of people on here - once she's seen a planet, she's seen a planet. There's not a lot of motivation for her to see it again. My own memories as a child of astronomy were going with my dad to a couple of open public sessions at our local observatory/museum - so once the current COVID situation improves, your best option in the short term may be to try and do something similar or at an astronomy club outreach session. Sorry if that's less than encouraging, but having been pretty much where you are now, I think I owe you a realistic account of my experiences. And again, huge appreciation of your efforts to cater for your granddaughter's interest.

Hi HMS_Furious, While most people will rightly tell you that a large Dobsonian will get you the best views for your money, and that having a GoTo computerised scope eats your budget at the expense of the important optical bits, I always want to highlight some of the issues I've encountered over the last couple of years with my daughter. She's now 6, so a good bit younger than your daughter but I think some of this will apply to a greater or lesser extent... GoTo computerised control for finding things I can take or leave, but the tracking it provides is a must for me. At the magnification required for planets, they move across the eyepiece fairly quickly. If you're regularly "taking turns" at the eyepiece it's easy for things to drift out of view while changing over. And even if you can do it quickly enough, keeping it in view with a gentle nudge or turns of slow-mo cables is an acquired skill. As you've already been spending time with binoculars, you'll likely be aware of this, but have a realistic idea of how often you'll be able to use it - and particularly with your daughter. Between weather and planetary positions chances of viewing at child friendly hours (especially when avoiding schoolnights) can be few and far between. You'll no doubt have better weather than me in Glasgow, but in 2 years I've probably had 25-30 decent nights - and probably only half a dozen or so that she could participate in. And half of those would be limited to the moon. With an older daughter you'll have more options - especially if you are ok for light pollution and get a scope big enough to be useful for galaxies, nebulas etc. Lastly, even at 10, using an eyepiece is a skill, and we found it frustrating that I could never be sure she was seeing what she should have been able to see. Smartphone adapters can be useful for this, but can be tricky to get good results with. Good Luck!

Hi Astro Alice & dad , Always good to see a new young one with an interest. I'm not sure if you mentioned Alice's age, but I thought I'd share my experience with my little girl - now 6 but 4 when she first showed an interest in all things 'space' related. The 150 dob will get you great views (and have a look at the new 150 flex tube if you haven't spotted that yet as it may be more available at the moment). BUT, while I wouldn't push a Goto option strongly as it eats so much of your budget, having motorised tracking makes a huge difference when sharing a scope with young children. At the magnification you'll want for planets they move through the eyepiece so quickly that they'll almost be out of view by the time you've centred them and shuffled around so that she is at the eyepiece. You can try to set the scope aimed at where the planet is about to move into but it isn't satisfactory. Older kids will get the hang of the gentle nudge required to keep it in view, but my 6 year old is still a *long* way from that skill. Tracking and/or goto will let you line things up and know they'll still be there by the time she's looking at them. I'd also add that she finds looking through the eyepiece a poor second best to having a smartphone hanging on the end. It's an acquired skill to be able to use the adapters properly and frustrating to have to reset them for different eyepieces, but it gives small ones a much easier way of viewing - and it means you can both see the same thing at once. As a father there's little worse than being unsure if she's actually seeing what she should be able to see through the eyepiece. Don't underestimate the skill required for this. Lastly, manage expectations - both yours and hers. I've had a scope for about 2 and a half years now and although I get out the garden about once a month, she's only managed about half a dozen times or so - and only two or three of those to see more than the moon. You'll probably have better weather than us in Glasgow, and not quite as much of a problem with short nights over the summer, but even with clear and dark skies the planets rarely make appearances at child friendly hours! Most of my planetary viewing is after 11pm and before 5am! It's brilliant that she's so engaged, and there's loads you and she can do (Maddie & Greg Go Live on YouTube if you haven't been watching that), use online planetariums (or hopefully soon be able to visit a real one) or pick up some meteorites (surprisingly cheap for small ones). Unless she's 9/10 plus think carefully about focusing wholly on a telescope as a way of feeding her interest. Sorry if that's disheartening. I love the time I get to spend with my daughter at the scope, but it's been far less often than I'd imagined and we've found other ways to satisfy her interest. But I also know that the scope is there as she gets older - and then we'll hopefully be able to make more regular use of it. Good luck with your purchase. David

With light pollution I'm pretty much only interested in Jupiter, Saturn & Mars and have a 90 minute window between a planet being above my horizon on the SE to them passing behind some trees on my SW. Will sometimes double up with an earlier viewing of the moon if the timings work out, but 90 minutes seems a natural time limit for me.

Pretty sure I would have bought that a year or two ago if it had been around. If it can deliver the views required it seems a great balance of price and size/weight/storage and I could see a lot of sales of that as a 2nd scope. I've always been unsure about the flextube but people seem very happy with the 130.

I'd been struggling with fine focusing on a new-to-me Skymax 127 mak. I'd done a bit of research and knew it was a general thing that lots of people felt about the design - and that it wasn't an issue with my particular scope. I'd been looking at getting a helical fine focuser and had picked out a Baader one on FLO, but before buying I sent them a message to confirm this would connect to my mak directly and I wouldn't need any other adapters. I quickly got a reply that this would connect to my scope, but pointing out that as it would rotate with the changing focus it would also move my diagonal. As I was still getting used to my new scope and still thinking "mini dob" I'd forgotten that it now mattered to me that the focuser was a non-rotating one. Martin at FLO suggested the ZWO one which although more expensive would allow me to adjust the focus while keeping the diagonal in the same position. He also advised that I could first try some of the 'hacks' other people had successfully used to improve their use of the main focuser (clothes peg), but I like my solutions a bit more 'elegant'. Once ordered the ZWO focuser arrived in the expected timeframe and I've been very pleased with it. For me this was great service - ok, I ended up spending more than I planned, but if I'd bought the Baader one it would have been awkward at best and potentially unusable. And any business with the integrity to suggest options to save me spending money with is great in my book.

Thanks for the replies. I'm reassured by them. Was just a little concerned they could have ended seizing up but had been working on the basis that the less frequently they are taken on and off is probably better.

Looking for some advice in case I'm getting this wrong... I recently moved from a small mini dob to a Skymax 127 Mak. When storing my mini dob I just set the angle downwards (so any debris would fall away from the mirror) and put on all the caps. As I'm now using the Mak on the same dob mount (Skywatcher Virtuoso) I'm unsure if I should be taking the diagonal out when the scope isn't in use or if it's fine to leave it attached and just have the cap on at the eyepiece end of the diagonal? I've also just added in a ZWO Helical focuser between the scope and diagonal - so same question for that - is it fine to leave it in? Thanks David

Hi Lee, I came very close to buying the Bresser as my first scope a couple of years back but like you couldn't find much info/reviews on them. In the end I found an offer on a Heritage 114p Virtuouso mini dobsonian for around the same price that also gave me tracking (and the ability to add GoTo later using a skywatcher wifi module for another £50). I figured that was worth trading for the smaller aperture. Like your Cometron 76mm, the 5" Bresser is a "tabletop" scope so would need to sit on a stable garden table etc (as otherwise you would need to be lying/crouching on the ground as the eyepiece will only be around 70cm off the ground). I think what Louis was suggesting was that you may be able to mount the entire scope - dobsonian base included - on a solid photographic tripod. I had a quick look at the specs but couldn't see any confirmation of being able to mount the whole set up on a tripod, but it is a common feature on the Skywatcher equivalents. Are there reasons you are looking at the tabletop size or would a 'full height' dobsonian be an option - Skywatcher Skyliner 150 is around the same price as the Bresser. My basic understanding is that any dobsonian is going to be of limited use for astrophotography as without tracking you'd be limited to short exposures - so no galaxies etc. Sorry - can't comment on the astromaster at all.

That's good advice you've been given, but I'd add a few thoughts from my experience with my daughter (4 when we got a scope and now 6). My scope is a small 114mm dobsonian scope and for me that's the minimum size to give satisfactory results for a kid (and lots of adults). Even with that the planets are tiny and I can just about make out Saturn's rings and hints of Jupiter's bands. In order to see this you need to be looking at high magnification - and the planets will quickly drift across the eyepiece and out of view. It's quite a skill to 'nudge' or move the scope to keep the target object in view - and a hard skill for even older kids to master. If you can stretch money-wise to a telescope with a tracking mount it makes things much easier if you find the planet or star and it will still be in view when you let your daughter have a look. The other thing I have learned - and wish I'd really understood before hand - is just how rarely the telescope can be used by young children. So often the best time to view the planets is silly-o'clock in the middle of the night. And depending on where you are the nights with good weather are few and far between. In two years I've probably managed about 30 nights out - but only half a dozen or so of those have been at a time I could have my daughter out with me - and probably only three or four times she saw more than the moon. Smaller and less expensive scopes at the 76mm size will be fine for the moon and using lower magnification it won't drift out of view so quickly. It's a brilliant hobby for any space mad kid, but please have realistic expectations of what you can easily do - and assess your spending accordingly. I'd also just point you in the direction of other ways you can help your daughter's interest in space stuff. I've bought mine a couple of small meteorite fragments that she loves holding and looking at. And these can be got relatively inexpensively: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/meteorites.html and for me would be a better option than a "name a star" certificate. But in the end, you know your daughter best as to what level of interest she's likely to have and maintain, and seriously well done for wanting to help with her interest and for coming here and asking all the right questions! And if you aren't already watching Maddie & Greg Go Live on Youtube make sure she watches all their "Mission Space" shows from a couple of weeks back - I'm not ashamed to say that I learned more than a couple of things! Good Luck!

Most of what I'd say has already been covered. I went for the Heritage 114 as I got a good offer on it, but my preference now would have been the Heritage 90 as my main interest is planets. I have a 6 year old daughter and the tracking the Virtuoso offers is essential for observing with small kids and even at 11 it will have huge benefits. As happy-kat has said, the Skywatcher wi-fi adapter is a nice addition but not really required for starting out or planetary observing. Jupiter, Saturn, Mars & Venus are all visible to the naked eye when in the sky so easy to locate with the scope. And the moon of course. PS - best addition to a new telescope you can give her is a warm fleecy jumper!

Hi Mike, sorry I've only just spotted this thread. As someone who was in a similar situation 2 years ago (with a then 4 year old) I'd also recommend the Skywatcher Heritage 114p on the Virtuoso mount. It's a good size for kids to use and would be portable enough if you wanted to take it away from the back garden. But the big advantage it brings is tracking (additional mains plug or power tank required or it eats through batteries). Large dobsonians like the Skyliner 150 will no doubt give better views with their bigger aperture, but without tracking to keep what you're looking at in view of the eyepiece the target will very quickly drift out of view at the higher magnifications you'll want to use for planets. This can be hugely frustrating when trying to locate an object and then finding it's gone by the time your daughter is trying to look at it. Even a half decent effort setting up the scope will reward you with a target staying in view for much longer. I also found the motorised control of the scope to be much more controlled for locating targets than manually moving the scope. It also allows you to add on a Skywatcher wifi adapter (around £50) and then use a smartphone and app to turn it into a full goto scope. Unfortunately I've learned that just about everything relating to astronomy kit is about compromising. All you can do is try to pick out the things that matter most to you. At 8, your daughter may have the skills to nudge a big dob to keep things in view, and if you think so then it will be a great choice. If you think it's likely to be you doing most of the locating of targets and her then having a look, please give consideration to a scope with tracking ability. And I'll throw in one last complication - I chose my Heritage 114 because I got a great offer on it in a clearance, but if I'd had a straight up choice I'd probably have gone for the Heritage 90p Maksutov version which I'm lead to believe gives slightly better contrast for planets. Good luck with your choice.

Like Peter, I've got the 114 Newtonian version (but may have gone for the Mak90 if I'd found it at same price). I've added the synscan WiFi and found it works well - although for planets you can find by sight the tracking on the mount is sufficient and I only hook up the synscan if I'm hoping to see something else (rare in my light polluted skies). I've never been tempted to use a tripod with it - just varying sizes of garden table. It has a reputation for racing through batteries so a DC adapter if you'll have an outside socket is an essential - or power tank type battery if you'll be using away from home.

I'll not weigh in on the benefits of the scopes suggested by others far more qualified than me. But I would give back to your comment regarding involving your almost 4 year old. My daughter has been involved in our stargazing since she was just over 4. In fact it was her interest in space that motivated out telescope purchase. And the big thing I've learned (fortunately before our ourchase) was that motorised tracking on a scope is a HUGE benefit if you are sharing viewing and (in my experience) essential if trying to let a little one view. You can manage fine without for the moon but the magnification required for the planets means they move across the field of vision too quickly. Even if YOU can manually track when viewing the kids won't be able to (at that age anyway). It just takes them too long to focus through the eyepiece and it's gone before you can be sure they ever saw it. And that's not even including the accidental nudges. If you can stretch to something with tracking (full go to not essential) I'd really reccomend it it intending to view with small children. And a smartphone adapter for live viewing rather than through an eyepiece makes a huge difference too. Great for the moon although tricky to line up well enough for planets. There have been a few threads on here talking about observing with small ones that will give more info on balancing the technical aspects with the specific needs of youngsters.

Thanks Geoff - very useful to know what some of the alternative options are for this mount (it's not always easy to find OTA weights in specs).

I've got the Heritage 114p - the same Virtuoso mount but with 114p newtonian scope. I've been very happy with it - although as a beginner my use has been limited. It seems well built and it's quick and simple to set up - I can't imagine there's anything better as a truly portable "grab and go" as I can literally just pick it up and carry it outside and onto the garden table. The concept of the tabletop mount works (fairly) well for me but you do need to be aware that regardless of how solid the table is (or whatever you sit it on) it still depends on the ground/surface underneath - decking with a little too much bounce in my case. You do also need to work out a seating/standing arrangement that gets you at the right height for viewing. Tracking has been fine for visual, but I think I read somewhere that as it's movements are very small up/down left/right rather than a true equatorial movement it isn't the best for long exposures? I believe it also happily works with the Skywatcher wifi adaptor to provide go-to control via tablet/phone instead of having to buy a synscan handset. This is next on my purchase list! The 114p has been good as a starter scope (had it since November) but I am now thinking of upgrade options and trying to find what the best scope I can get that will keep under the virtuoso mounts payload of 4kg. Lastly, I have seen the mount and 90mm mak turn up individually on Astroboot (been tempted to go for the mak myself)