abhoriel

Nice, looks very good. Did you have any problems with condensation? What did you use for the mount and cold finger? 

Quote

 

- do I need to write code for this, or is there existing programming available for what I want to do?

- is it possible to avoid the use of screens (in the field)? My preferred option would be to flick a switch to start and stop the guiding, with another switch for alignment mode (or something simple like this).

 - do I need to use any particular stepper motors/drivers for raspberry Pi? I'm using a bipolar stepper motor running quarter steps, with an A4988 stepper driver

 - is the RPi 3 Model B+ the unit I should buy?

 

1) Nope, you use existing software called INDI. No programming required.

2) You dont need a screen in the field. You leave the raspberry outside with your scope and connect it to your home network somehow (WiFi, or better, network cable). You generally install Kstars (with INDI) on your computer in the warmth of your house, and then use it to connect to over the network to INDI running on the raspberry pi. 

3) look online to see if there is an INDI driver for your focuser hardware (https://www.indilib.org/devices/focusers.html)

4) I use a raspberry pi 3B, not the 3B+. I use Ubuntu Mate as the OS. I think Ubuntu Mate doesnt work "out of box" on the 3B+, but I may be wrong. I think you can get it to work with some extra work, but read about it online first.

You will want to follow some kind of tutorial to set up the raspberry pi. It runs Linux based operating systems, which you may not be familiar with (takes a bit of learning!). Enjoy.

I'm not sure, I was going to take test images to check orthogonality of the sensor. I'm going to use rubber washers under the circuit board to pad it out and allow it's tilt to be adjusted.

3 hours ago, zfedoran said:

@abhoriel Great solder work on that PCB.

Looks like a fun project!

I'm curious, with the sensor being over a decade old, does it make practical sense to build something like this today, beyond for the fun of building your own camera?

Certainly, that is a great shot of M42, but I'd argue that similar results can be had from a modified Nikon D5300. Has anyone actually done a comparison to more modern CMOS sensors?

 

(having said all that, i've ordered a PCB from elecrow)

 

 

Good question! Well cameras like the QHY8pro use the same sensor, and are still worth a lot of money (new or on the second hand market).. Which is because you can still take excellent shots with the sensor. I'd say that you really need cooling for this project to be worthwhile. Otherwise, you should just astromod a DSLR instead. I'd say that M42 probably isn't the best target for comparison shots - its such a bright target that it doesn't need very long exposure times and wont benefit as much from cooling.. as you say, a DSLR should be able to take quite comparable shots. CCDs have more read noise than modern CMOS sensors, so they will be at a disadvantage on bright targets for which you take lots of shorter exposures. 

In general though I'm of the opinion that astrophotography will switch completely over to CMOS. I'd like to see a DIY CMOS camera using a modern CMOS sensor. In theory, it could be less hassle as you wouldn't have to worry about analogue-to-digital conversion (and its associated noise issues). 

If you need anything do ask. I do have spare PCBs I'm happy to send out (for free)

4 hours ago, AstroMadd said:

Cool ... I would love a PCB ... thanks ... do you know what version it is, out of interest? ... and what documentation version(s) you have followed, to populate & build the unit? as I have got a few files, grabbed from the various Cam86 sites but best to be on the same hymn sheet, so to speak ...

I noticed someone used 2 x Cam86, one for guiding and imaging ... makes sense ...

Yeah PM me your address and I'll send one. The schema I've used is that which is found here: http://astroccd.org/2016/10/cam86/

There are older versions on the Ukrainian forums, and there is an Iceinspace topic on the cam86 -- they have modified the schema and PCB somewhat I believe. I used a bill of materials for Mouser which I found on this page: https://www.diycam.fr/index.php/fr/9-all/construction/5-cam86-fournitures-part-i-la-carte  I think as far as the PCB is concerned, the list is generally complete (except for the CXD1267AN, and the optional DHT22), but some components weren't in stock on mouser (and would only be in stock after several months), so I had to substitute some components for equivalents (and get one or two that I didn't want to substitute on eBay). 

As for using a cam86 as a guider, you can by all means, but I don't think it plays to its strengths. Buying a second hand guider/planetary cam will probably be cheaper than building a cam86! The advantages of the cam86 (cooling, large sensor, low noise) aren't really important for guiders. And the cam86 will generally be larger/heavier and also requires external power (rather than being powered purely from USB like most guiders).

I can send you a PCB if you like!

M42 is a great target indeed. And of course, you can just go with lenses rather than a telescope. 

2 hours ago, AstroMadd said:

I've just finished going through a few of those Cam86 sites/threads and I am thinking of putting one together ... I would be using a Canon lens adapter version and using an 'L' lens, as I have no scope at the moment ... I am fine with Electronics & soldering, etc but I too have no mechanical machinery ...

But before I even think about doing a build I would love to see some examples of Astro shots, taken by people who have built it ... maybe I missed a link for example Astro Images? ... I can also wait until you post some of yours ...

Most images are scattered around forums and therefore difficult to find, but here you go:

https://www.astrobin.com/gear/60809/cam86/

http://astroccd.org/gallery/ (this doesn't have any actual cam86 images, but loads of images from older 'cams' like cam83/cam85.. the cam86 is supposed to be an improvement on these anyway. note also that I would imagine that many of these weren't taken with cooling!)

http://jonathanedgecombe.com/

If you're thinking of starting the build in over a month or so, you can order some components (eg the CXD1267AN ... mouser doesnt have this) from China early. It costs a lot less and the slow delivery might be worth it.

Let me know if you have any questions about anything anyway!

I started a topic about the cam86 a few weeks ago, just to see if anyone else had made one. Its essentially a DIY OSC camera which uses a Sony ICX453AQ CCD (the same as that used in the QHY8 pro) ripped out of Nikon SLRs on a custom low-noise circuit (designed by Rome, one of our Ukrainian counterparts!) and with provisions for adding peltier cooling.

I've since started work on mine anyway, and the first stage (consisting of building the electronics of the camera itself) is now complete and it seems to be taking images ok... I'll test it more extensively (with some kind of lens I suppose) at some point. I had some very limited soldering experience with "through-the-hole" soldering, but not with surface mount stuff. This camera uses larger surface mount components, so its really not too daunting though. I bought some practice SMT PCBs on eBay (for around £1 each) to practise with first! I've even decided since that SMT soldering is much nicer than through-the-hole.. techniques such as drag-soldering which I used for most of the ICs are really very quick and simple.

Anyway, the costs of the build so far are:

• Components including enclosure box (from Mouser mostly, with a couple from eBay!): £100
• PCBs from Elecrow: £8.03 (I paid for 5 PCBs which is the minimum, but they sent me 7 anyway!)
• Broken Nikon D40 SLR on eBay (to get the sensor): £25 
• DMSO solvent to help with extracting the sensor: £8

I've attached some pictures at the bottom. The legs for some of the through-the-hole components that are poking through the PCB could do with a much closer trim - I'm still waiting for the cutters that I ordered from China to arrive! 

Further information on cam86 (in Russian, but google translate works well): http://astroccd.org/2016/10/cam86/

Also my previous topic, which has links to various websites and forums on this camera: 

The next thing I need to do is cut holes in the enclosure and build some kind of a nose piece for the camera. I'm not entirely sure how i'm going to do this as yet - any advice would be great! I have neither the ability nor the equipment to machine a nice piece. My current plan is to buy something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-m42-adapter-UK-fast-delivery/202110844744?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 and then use a holesaw on my electric drill to cut the right sized hole in the enclosure and then push the "canon" side of the adapter into it. I'd then drill smaller screw holes in the adapter's flange and into the enclosure so that I can screw it on. I can then use an m42 to T2 adapter to connect it to my telescope. I've attached a picture of the aluminium enclosure for which the PCB has been designed anyway!

Later on, I'm going to add a peltier cooler - the cam86 PCB is designed for this and the peltier (along with temp and humidity sensors) can be controlled by the onboard microcontroller. I'm not sure if the little transistor is up to the task though, but I can replace that if it burns out I suppose! There's also the concern of frosting/condensation on the sensor due to it being cooled below the dew point. I'm either going to try to seal the box as best as I can (which will require the use of a glass window in the nose piece amongst other measures) and then use some kind of desiccant (or even purging it with argon, as some people have used) or use resistors/nichrome wire around the edge of the sensor glass to keep that a little warmer.. or some combination of the two!

Anyway, if anyone is interested in giving this a shot, I have spare PCBs and a few other spare bits and pieces which might be helpful. I'm happy to post them for free. The information regarding this camera is mostly in Russian (in the site I linked above). There is also lots of information scattered on various forums (I linked them in my last topic). If anyone is interested in building this, or want me to go into any details, let me know.

6 minutes ago, Mick J said:

I have glanced (in the past) at a thread on IceInSpace started by Brendan, covers the same camera's I believe.  A long read at 42 pages and it's part 2 !!

Looks good work from everybody.  (as a btb - always good diy stuff on iceinspace)

Ah yes, I should have included that topic here!

8 minutes ago, Gina said:

Several years ago I carried out experiments with Canon cameras with APS-C sensors, cooling the sensor to various temperatures and at various gain settings but little improvement was gained in signal to noise performance below 0C and nothing at all below -5C which was disappointing.  I don't know what modern DSLR sensors are like or Nikon v Canon, they may be different.  One thing I do know is that the sensors used in ZWO cameras do benefit from cooling to -30C so there have been developments in CMOS sensors.

Sure. But nikon sensors are all sony made and are different from the canon ones. Also, this project uses a sensor from an older SLR which uses a CCD rather than a CMOS sensor. The same CCD is used in the qhy8pro, in which the cooler presumably helps!

Our Ukrainian counterparts have designed some DIY CCD cameras based on the 6MP colour Sony ICX453AQ CCD (also used in QHY8Pro). The CCD can be obtained from old defective Nikon SLRs on ebay very cheaply. It should presumably be well known about here, but I don't really see any topics on it! They have been progressive improving the design cam10, cam81, cam83, cam84, cam86 etc 

They provide instructions, components lists, gerber format PCB diagrams.

Here is the info on the older cam84 (which is in English)

http://astroccd.org/2015/04/cam84/

Here is the newer cam86 which uses a microcontroller and can handle TEC cooling etc. Its in Russian, but google translate does a good job:

http://astroccd.org/2016/10/cam86/

Theres even a cam90 which uses a newer, higher resolution CCD.. the schematics/PCBs are on the Ukrainian forums but I think its kind of under testing.

Here's the Ukrainian language forum topic (full of useful info, but use google translate): 

http://www.astroclub.kiev.ua/forum/index.php?topic=28929.0

There's also a cloudynights topic, which seems to focus on the older cam84 much more:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/497530-diy-astro-ccd-16-bit-color-6mpx-camera/

And a French topic on it (focusing much more on the cam86), in which pagpatrice have done a great job of organising everything (again, google translate!):

http://www.webastro.net/forum/showthread.php?t=141764

https://www.diycam.fr/index.php/fr/9-all/construction/5-cam86-fournitures-part-i-la-carte

I don't know if anyone is interested in this here, just wanted to see. I'm considering giving it a shot for the learning experience primarily I suppose!

Excellent, I guess despite not using a stepper motor, its precise enough.

Looks good, I might try this out!

1 hour ago, wimvb said:

Me too. The first setup may be a bit tricky, as you need to get wifi working. But this may have been improved with the newest version, which has an internal wifi adaptor.

There are several good tutorials on the web for whatever you may need Pi-wise. Just enter your question in google.

And I'm sure there must be a good read for raspberry newbies. Personally, I would check the "... for dummies" series. But that's just me.

Have fun.

 

Yeah I would definitely recommend the Raspberry Pi 3, which has internal WiFi... and a few other upgrades like a faster CPU.

27 minutes ago, Daz69 said:

Hi Gina. 

Where would an absolute newb start with these Raspberry Pi's? This all looks extremely technical and scares the jeepers out of me even wanting to begin to learn how these things work.

I see so many people use these for all sorts of projects, so they are clearly versatile devices, and I would love to bring one into my projects. I'm just feeling like its all way above my head.

If you are interested in learning about them, I would buy a Raspberry pi, and of course a microSD card. Follow a guide (for example Gina's) on how to install raspian on the microSD card, or alternatively I think you can buy the microSD cards with it pre-installed. Then connect a HDMI monitor, keyboard and mouse and use it as a computer for a bit. Just play with it. Learn how to update the system and install new software using the terminal.

That's how I would do it. That's pretty much how I learnt to use Linux back in the day. I just installed it on my computer and played about with it!

I ordered my PWMs from China between Christmas and new years... still waiting!

Very interesting, thanks for the focuser description! I'm considering having a go at constructing one! I'm most concerned about how to reliably connect the focuser itself to a stepper motor I suppose. I'm not certain I have the tools to do it!

Thanks for the replies! Yeah I've got my Raspberry pi 3 out and installed Ubuntu mate (as it has the indi packages in its own repos). Seems to work very well so far, but i need to test it with my hardware which necessitates buying a powered USB hub... Preferably one which has a 12v input so i can just connect it to my current portable power solution.

I just acquired a CCD (an Atik 314e) and was wondering what software to use with it. I thought sequence generator pro was expensive, but ekos from what I've seen does everything SGP can do... Including sequences, filter wheel control, unattended meridian flips, automatic plate solving and autofocus etc. Opensource for the win!

I'm looking forward to trying that ccd, but i need some filters and some kind of filter wheel first...

I've been using Linux for years, but have been using Windows for astrophotography.. I'd assumed there would be issues with drivers and not having an integrated solution on Linux. I guess I was hugely mistaken.. I'll have to give this a try!

9 minutes ago, spillage said:

Hi abhoriel,

 

It just one of those things that seems really daunting but after a couple of time you wonder why. Just need to give it time for the penny to drop on what you are looking at and what needs doing. I you can loosen and tighten a screw then you will be fine.

I would recommend a cheshire collimator rather than a laser one.

 

thats good advice on the collimator. Thanks very much

Hi, just a quick question. I'm thinking of getting a 130pds (instead of an ED80 for example). One of the disadvantages cited for a Newtonian is the need to collimate it. Is it really that much hassle? This scope is certainly faster and cheaper than the ED80, and I quite like the spikes!