Whistlin Bob

No problem. I have a Bresser 127L (not APO, but a good scope) and a Skywatcher 200p (probably a comparable "level" in the market) , and they're really quite different beasts. To directly answer the question- yes planetary detail. On the very best nights the frac wipes the floor with the newt on Jupiter and Saturn for reasons described here in other posts. On an average night the difference between them is less. Strangely this reverses on lunar views- I'm not sure why, but whilst the frac yields really good lunar views, the newt, with a 4mm ep on a good night is utterly breathtaking. I'm not sure "prettiness" is a thing you can see, but if it were, then the frac wins there too- stars are a little "hairy" in the newt due to the obstruction, even when you don't see the spikes, whereas in the frac they are beautiful orbs. Unfortunately I also see a little chromatic aberration in the frac (it's an achromat), which is absent from the newt, although this is fixed well enough by a semi-apo filter. As others have stated, the greater light grasp of the 8" is balanced by the contrast improvement in the frac: I once ran them side by side on the Pleiades and both gave pretty good views at low magnification on the reflection nebula around that cluster. Marginally, I preferred the aesthetics in the frac that night. However, if the purpose of this is to help with a buying decision, then I need to point out that I use the frac much less than the newt, for 2 simple reasons: - The newt can be set up in a fraction of the time as it sits assembled in my garage and is simply lifted out and plonked on the lawn- it's then ready to go. - The newt is much more comfortable to use- most of the sky can be seen simply by sitting on an adjustable chair next it. With the frac, for objects near the zenith, I'm almost on the floor to get to the eyepiece. HTH

No- I think it's important that you posted it, as you have demonstrated that you were sincere in your question. I hadn't interacted with the post, but when I saw the title I thought it perhaps an attempt to launch an argument, as this is a subject about which folks can sometimes become dogmatic and impassioned (although less so on this forum). I suspect the posts above made the same apparently incorrect assumption.

I've got hooked on this little fella, and tonight went after him with my ETX105- so 4 inch mak not frac. I would have to say elongated not resolved on a night off fairly steady seeing.

As the joke goes: it's easy to make a small fortune from astrophotography, just start with a large one. More seriously, my local club converted to a micro charity to help us fund an observatory and support our outreach work. We sell prints at local events, and it does yield a little profit. It's a good way of promoting our group and acts as a conversation starter with interested folks. I suspect the hourly rate is rather unimpressive!

That's worked a treat, thank you very much 👍👍

That would be really excellent. Was thinking last night that's what I need to do. That would be really helpful 🙏

For my birthday last month I got Steve O'Meara's Observing the Herschel 400. It was a beautiful night tonight, so I was able to make a start. 5 little NGC galaxies around Leo, then mugged into favourites- the triplet and m51, then finishing by watching M3 drift through my binoviewers half a dozen times. I needed that!

Same here... Can't argue with any of that either... BUT The question for me is whether the hobby is still viable in this country, and that's still a strong YES for me. I do both imaging and observing , keep notes of what I do, and have done since 2018. On average, during that time, I manage some astro activity around 4 times a month, with around half of those being really good. For the last six months, that's fallen to around twice a month, so it's been a poor year, and obvs we're all feeling it. But I've still had fun, I've seen and imaged new stuff and I've made new friends through the hobby. I've just had to be a bit more patient than usual; I try and comfort myself with the probability that the next 12 months will be better then the last. That being said, to pull it back to the topic of the thread, the answer is lots of clouds!!!

I meant stuck on a total of 91, although m91 eluded me for a while! Finally saw it 3 years ago, although it was one of those averted vision smudges. Must go back and have another look as it's the right time of year.

Excellent work- that's a really great achievement. I got stuck on 91- the remainder aren't viewable from home- so I need to get myself to a dark site! Have to say, I'm all for taking your time over this- many of these objects are so much more rewarding with a looking look. And I completely agree about the Leo triplet 👍

I don't have a 4 inch frac, but I was inspired by this thread,and after a dreadful March we finally got a clear night. I was observing with a 14" dob, and thought I'd see what it could do on Tegmine,which I've not observed before. The third component was a nice easy split, but the 2 close stars were suffering a bit from the 'hairyness' that you often get with dobs. Problem solved with the aperture mask- which gives 160mm of unobstructed F10 aperture. Even with this the split wasn't easy- but with a little patience the little black line gradually emerged into view 😃

A nice little surprise session tonight. Forecast very mediocre, but skies really looking good - if in doubt always trust mk 1 eyeballs! I got the 14" out... Inspired by the Tegmine thread I decided to start there and managed to get a nice split, wheeled over to Castor and enjoyed those cats eyes for a bit and deciding I was in the mood for some doubles I slid across to Algieba. I was enjoying myself but the view abruptly disappeared behind some cloud. It looked good overhead, so I treated myself to a nice view of m51. I was using 7mm Celestron xCel, which I always feel is a little underrated, and I was getting some nice hints of spiral arms when the clouds hid that as well. Couple of drops of rain had me packing away sharpish- as the forecast was now predicting an imminent downpour, but ten minutes later it was all clear again. Didn't feel like setting up fully so first had a little play with binoculars around Auriga (couple of clusters bagged) and then managed to find the beehive. Very nice!

I've been watching this thread for a little while now and thinking it could be the answer to a decent grab and go/travel rig for me. Finally pulled the trigger at PAS today. Very pleased as it's allowed me to mount my little Mak and 70mm frac side by side. My plan is to use the Frac as a super finder as well as a rich wide field instrument. For the Mak I've used a smaller L bracket then the one that came with the mount. Aligning then didn't seem too bad in the daytime- looking forward to when the perma cloud finally lifts!

It's the same kit- a 14" dob 😃.

Reading this topic just reminds me again that what most of us do is the equivalent of playing football with our shoelaces tied together. It speaks to the wonder of what's over our heads that we bother at all. My experience of really dark skies is limited but a few years back we were holidaying in Cumbria and I had a superb time with my dob- thinking back to it still gives me a tingle. To answer the op question: Stephan's Quintet and NGC891. At the time I would also have said the Horsehead, but the experience of doing it in Cumbria helped me find it at home, and on average I manage to catch it about once a season now. I wrote it up at the time- definitely my best experience with a telescope, and probably my best report as well! I really need to do this again...

It'd be my 14" Dob all night long! Does everything except solar so well and still fits in the boot of my car with the seats up.

The row of houses that can be seen from my back garden has probably never been called a landscape before, but here's the view I get when I look North whilst observing, and I've seen lots of the universe from here. This is 80*30 second shots using a 12-24mm Canon lens on a 100d and merged in GIMP, and tweaked for contrast and to try and get rid of some of the light pollution.

Nice one. Checked my observing logs- both of these entries were with 14" dob: 26/3/20 - Ngc2419- intergalactic wanderer- my that's faint! 22/2/22 - Ngc2419- intergalactic wanderer - still very faint!!! How the heck did Herschel see that? Clearly it's an every other year thing to go back and check it's still faint!

Tried many times, seen it just once. In 14" dob, with 160mm aperture mask and 4mm ep, so 400x. Spent ages repeatedly watching it zip across the field of view, convinced that it would be easier next time. That's was around 4 years ago, and I haven't seen it since!!! Don't know about twinkling, most nights Sirius looks like a glitter ball in a dodgy disco!

Definitely not, but we do seem to be a minority! Glad to hear that at least someone is getting some observing in.

I've found that truss dobs are complete rubbish... when you forget the trusses. Once met up with a pal at a dark site half an hour away, unloaded the car and traipsed across a field and only realised my error when I started to assemble the thing.

Funnily, it depends on the season. In winter, sometimes de-caff coffee, sometimes herbal tea. Whichever one it is, there's something wonderful about a mug steaming away on a freezing night. In summer, if there's a late observing session, perhaps just an hour or two, then a cheeky beer seems very civilised.

Oh, go on. Let's re-balance this a little... £2k? I can build a fantasy around that. The fantasy bit being around time and skills. Maybe one day... Wait for a nice big old second hand mirror to become available- let's say 20" or 22", and ground by one of those craftsmen who really knew what they were doing, but who forgot to sign it, keeping the price to maybe £500. Then build a Dobsonian mount around it. Whilst I like those ultra light jobbies, I think I'd prefer to build something wooden - varnished to a dark brown sheen, but with the grain very obvious. The trusses would be matt black, matching the light shroud and the counterweight bar I'd add to give me lots of eyepiece and binoviewer options. I wouldn't bother with any electronics besides a reflex finder, but I'd use a 72ed or similar to double as a finder and rich field instrument. Because fantasy me is more skilled than real me, the scope would be perfectly balanced and would have buttery smooth movements in alt and az. It would live in my garage and some detachable wheelbarrow handles would enable me to move it and set it up in minutes. The spider would have three vanes for a bit of JWST chic on bright stars, but if I was getting serious about doubles or planets of an evening, then I'd use the matching, and magnetically attached, aperture mask for around 160mm unobstructed and naturally colourful f12 or so light grasp. Why so cheap on the mirror? I think building this properly would cost a few quid, and I'd want £500 for a paracorr to take some biggish eyepieces and enjoy some wide'ish views (and stuff I mention that the mirror was pretty fast) Obviously I'd need to put up with a few comments about steam funnels and shaving mirrors, but I suspect exploring the shapes of galaxies tens of millions of light years away would be adequate compensation 😃

Some terrific answers in this thread; my own answers are similar to several on here. Astronomy/stargazing was something I discovered in my forties- I keep doing it because it has brought me joy and wonder, and because between observing and imaging there's so much to do, and I barely feel I've scratched the surface. I've put a lot into it, but it has given so much more back. I don't share some of the fears about change, though. Yes, the skies are getting worse, and as a hobby for the young, the appeal of sitting in the cold and dark, seeking faint fuzzies in the eyepiece struggles to reach the Xbox/Minecraft/Insta generation. But technology is touching our hobby too, and over the last year or so I've seen a generation of people join my local club thrilled with their SeeStars and imaging kit and wanting to share the experience with the like minded. They want to learn more about what they're finding and how to get the most out of it. We've got a special interest group to include them and it's growing fast, with an average age much lower than the club as a whole. I think this is all brilliant, and I think we're seeing only the beginning of this- these systems are only going to get better- and hopefully bring many more into our hobby, albeit in a different form to what many of us may be used to.

A couple of the guys at our club gave a good talk on fracs on Friday night- and it was just the inspiration I needed to get my 127l out, and remind myself what an excellent scope it is. Started off on Jupiter and had some lovely detail despite the iffy conditions, then slid across to Orion trying various EPs from 8-35mm on m42. Really appreciated the nice sharp stars, and didn't think the nebulosity was too much dimmer than my 200p newt. Then jumped up to the Pleiades- at 35x it was a terrific view, lovely crisp stars and clear enough to catch a good bit of reflection. Really ought to get it out more often!