HiloDon

Hi James,

I think it’s how the software reads the data.  Other software like Nebulosity has the same options.  I’m no expert on this, but I think the firmware establishes the read pattern and the software must match it.  The color Lodestar as far as I know is CYGM.  The SX RGB cams like the Ultrastar were RGGB.  Then for some reason SX changed the firmware to something different.  It doesn’t affect the image other than the color is messed up and you can see the bayer mask grid.

Don

Hi Bill,

Version 3.4 was primarily developed to be compatible with some of the higher res SX cameras like the 674, 694 and 814.  For some reason they would only work in Bin X2.  Simon added the extra color space options because SX uses different ones  for different cameras.  Not sure why, but I just purchased a SX674C Pro and it uses a GRGB color space.  SX will send you new firmware to change it to RGGB if you would prefer that.  Other than that, I am not aware of other changes.  I think the Starlight Vision is just a name change, but I think it’s only a Windows version.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

Don

Hi Rob,

I was a bit late reading this, but as soon as I saw your M100, I looked for the SN.  I think you got it!  We had something similar happen to my friend and me a couple of years back at the VIS.  We captured the Leo Trio and there was a new SN in M66.  This was a couple of days before the discovery.  My friend did submit it after the fact and they acknowledged the submittal.  It helped to establish the approximate start date of the SN.  We didn’t discover it, but we did have the earliest capture of it.

Don

Hey, Doc.

Welcome back!  Great video.  

I agree that the Lodestar and Paul’s software were inspirational in EAA/VA.  The late great Nytecam opened up a whole new world to me and many others.  Things have change and advanced some over the past couple of years, but the reliable Lodestar with SLL still gives a lot of pleasure in viewing the night skies.

I really liked your Eyes Galaxies.

Hope to see you around a lot more.

Don

38 minutes ago, JamesF said:

I had the impression that binning on CMOS sensors wasn't as effective as on CCD sensors because the pixels are combined after they have been read rather than before.  I've not been following the debate intently however, so I may have the wrong end of the stick.

James

You are correct, James.  There was a lot of heated discussion on this in another forum.  Here is a good description from a reliable source that explains the difference.  One thing to also note is that binning a CCD color cam will lose the color, whereas the CMOS color is retained albeit less effective.

https://www.atik-cameras.com/news/binnning-the-differences-between-cmos-and-ccd/

Don

Hi All,

Just to keep things simple, I think Grant’s suggestion appears to be a good next step.  I think the label of just Video stuck because it was the initiator of what Carl calls fast imaging.  For a while when this started, all you had were fast video cams. Then along came Paul Shears, Nytecam, and Martin who developed a simpler one USB cable system that uses an SX Lodestar with Paul’s brilliant Lodestar Live, now Starlight Live.  Not really video, but gives similar results.  I believe CN actually went from calling the forum something like Video & Electronically Assited Astronomy to just EAA.  Video still plays a role in live viewing, and it has a clearer meaning to many.  So, I like Grant’s proposal.  Whether it helps to bring more posters, only time will tell, but it sure couldn’t hurt.

Don 

Thanks, Stash.

One of the things I have noticed in this hobby is the lack of beta testing by the seller before the product is marketed.  Seems to be a common thing, especially with new cameras for EAA.  I enjoy the testing part of new astronomy equipment.  I try to be objective and identify the value and usefulness of a product, so others don't waste their money.  

There have been some ideas generated about Freestar that could make it work.  Nytecam has suggested an aperture mask that should, in theory reduce the SA significantly.  It's an easy thing to make, so I will try that next.  It won't be as fast, but it will have the wider FOV.  I'll report back.

Don

1 hour ago, shirva said:

Some pretty weird stars on the fun star,, more zoomed in compared to the hyperstar,, I wonder how the fun star image would has looked with less exposure time 

I do my focusing at five seconds.  It was just as bad.  The overly large stars are due to out of focus light from spherical aberration.  Exposure won't change that.

I think this article explains things in simple terms.  The problem as stated by some earlier is an uncorrected spherical mirror.  It will cause spherical aberration equally across the entire field, even center stars.  That's why the Hyperstar lens is needed.

https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_optics101_spherical.aspx

Had some clear skies last night and did a comparison of the Freestar and Hyperstar on my Evo 6 and Lodestar X2c.  All settings were the same.  M8 was the target.  If I tried to get better focus on the bright stars, the smaller dim stars would go out of focus.  

I'm hoping someone can explain what's going on optically, but it's not good without Hyperstar.  First one is Freestar, then Hyperstar.

I tried to get some comparison last night with the C6.  Skies looked pretty good, so I aligned and set up the Freestar with the Lodestar.  Went to the Rosette Nebula.  Tried to get focused, but some of the brighter star were showing severe aberrations.  Kept playing with the focus and the inevitable happened.  Clouds moved in and it started to rain.  Gave up at about 11:00pm.  The initial view was not promising.  Much of what some of you said seems to be true.  I will try again, hopefully this week some time.

Don

Stash,

As someone pointed out on CN, the Celestron C6 is Fastar compatible, and the secondary threads are SCT.  I had a Scope Stuff SCT to T thread adapter, so I connected my Baader twist lock eyepiece holder to the secondary.  It worked and I was able to come to focus in daylight.  When I get a chance I'll test the Lodestar and do a comparison.  The guy on CN was able to use his Celestron 1.25" visual back by installing a washer in the SCT connection.  The threads on the visual back are apparently too deep to seat the back.  He calls his idea Freestar.

As Nytecam pointed out, the use of the primary without some correction may induce some spherical aberration, but it might be ok for EAA use.

I'll report back as soon as I have something.

Don

Alex,

I think I got the streaks at 30 seconds as well.  I didn't test anything shorter than that.  Have you run yours at 45s?  My impression was that you usually stack short exposures of 10 to 15s.  Maybe all the Ultrastar monos do this at longer exposures.

I agree with Hiten.  I would be uncomfortable going inside the camera and adjusting things.  Here's a pic that Terry sent me showing the AB adjustment.

Don

Thanks, Hiten.

I already contacted High Point to tell them I want a new cam, because I feel the same way as you.  I'll contact them on Tuesday to let them know your experience.  Did you finally get one that didn't have the problem?

Don

Thanks, Alex.  I doubled check and binning is set to 1x1.  Terry sent a note back indicating that the A-D converter is being overloaded by the signal.  He said I should turn the anti blooming down a bit.  There is a control inside the camera.

I've got a note into Paul as well asking about the DPR.  I had issues with it with the color Ultrastar and NB Ha filter.  I didn't think to shut it off last night.

Don

Hi All,

Just received a new Ultrastar mono camera and had first light last night.  I plan on using it mainly with a narrow band Ha filter.  My first object was Eta Carinae and I immediately noticed some black horizontal smearing from some of the bright stars.  I was using my C6 with Hyperstar.  I have never seen this with my Lodestars or color Ultrastar.  Later I went to M16 and saw the same thing.  I have an email in to Terry at SX, but I thought some of you may have seen the same thing with yours.  Here's a capture demonstrating the problem.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Don

Here's a link to mine.  The skies are very good here, but it will give you an idea about what setups can be used.  The narrow band Ha stuff is interesting because the filter blocks out all soures of light pollution, including the moon.

Cameras used are Lodestars X2 and X2c, and Ultrastar.  Software is Paul's Lodestar Live/Starlight Live.

Don

https://stargazerslounge.com/profile/36930-hilodon/?tab=node_gallery_gallery

Hi Dom,

You may have missed this post by Hiten (Astrojedi) recently addressing this question.  He did PM me a comparison shot of M33, but I don't know if they were taken at the same time.

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/533670-evo-6-and-hyperstar/?p=7160241

There are a number of new users of the Atik Infinity and the results appear to be very good, even in some LP areas.  I think definitive side by side tests would be necessary to confirm it is better, but the gain circuitry could be different and a factor.  I doubt they could do anything to the sensor to change it's inherent sensitivity.  The Infinity does require separate 12v power, so it is different than the Ultrastar's USB power.

Don

Hi MemoryMan,

I think Doc provided some sound advice.  The Ultrastar C is a great camera, but the trade off is sensitivity.  The Lodestar has lower resolution, but it gives a fast view and can really go deep.  Your scope is a great EAA scope and both cameras will work, but the Ultrastar will be more difficult requiring longer exposures and stacking to reduce the noise inherent in the sensor.  You will have a field day looking at DSO's with the Lodestar.  Most of the time you don't even have to stack.  If you're not set on color, the mono is even faster and deeper.  Martin Meredith has done some fantastic really deep deep sky work with his Lodestar and 8" F4 Newt.  The Lodestar speed allows for narrow band Ha viewing as well.  The filter will require longer exposure times and you have some cushion with the Lodestar.

if you're in a LP area, the Lodestar again will have the advantage.  Take a look at some of the great work Nytecam has done with his Lodestars in the light polluted skies of London.

Hope this helps.

Don

p.s.  Here's a recent thread I started showing a session with the Lodestar.  Others joined in as well.  The Lodestar with Paul's SSL v3.0 software is the easiest setup going for deep sky viewing.

I'd like to second what Doc wrote.  Also, I think that Jorman's vendor may have given some bad advice on the Lodestar.  I have both the Lodestar and Ultrastar and must say that the LS X2m and c are much easier to use and appear to be significantly faster cameras.  I think someone just getting into EAA would be better served by starting with the LS and the moving to the Ultrastar if better resolution images are desired, but, depending on their sky conditions, they may be limited on DSO brightness.  I still prefer my Lodestars when viewing at my home observatory with poorer skies.

Don

Don,

Thank you for this. It may also make sense to mention the SX Ultrastar cameras in the guide as well since they are also supported now. Not sure if you were already thinking about doing this in a subsequent version.

Hiten

Hi Hiten,

I am receiving an Ultrastar later this week and will be testing it during the new moon phase, probably with a Ultrastar - Lodestar shootout included. Once I get more familiar with it, I will update the guide accordingly. I would also like to add the multi-spectral imaging capability as well. I don't think that version has been fully released by Paul yet.

Any suggestions on additions to the guide will be appreciated.

Don

Hi All,

Here is an updated LL user guide.  The updates include a procedure to fine tune your mount alignment using the Lodestar by Alex Parker and a section on fast stacking by Martin Meredith.  Thanks to both of them for their contributions.

If a Mod sees this, I think it would be helpful to have this update posted in the original post so it doesn't get lost down here.  Thanks for pinning the thread.

Don

Lodestar Live User Guide v1.1.pdf

Hibou,

Just another couple of thoughts. I think Keith is explaining why stacking works because it does. In practice I find that at least visually the image improves on a decreasing basis. It makes sense that the SNR improves. Longer exposure may do that too, but Keith also explains that you need to have a proper sub exposure to ensure the dynamic range of the camera matches that of the object. Too short and you can lose dimmer data. Too long and you can loose brighter data to saturation. That's why sensors with higher inherent sensitivity (higher SNR) and faster optics are better for EAA. That's my view as a practitioner.

This is a good discussion and an important one, too, especially with all the new cameras coming out. It probably would be better if we started a separate thread for further discussion.

Thanks,

Don

Hi Hibou,

You're correct, the stacking algorithms are beyond my knowledge, but I do know that stacking does improve the SNR by reducing random noise. Maybe reducing isn't the right word, but the signal is increased without increasing the random noise equally. Here's a reference written by Keith Wiley that does a good job of explaining how stacking works. He also explains how dynamic range is improved as well and why sum and mean stacking are really the same.

Hope this helps.

http://keithwiley.com/astroPhotography/imageStacking.shtml

Don

Thanks, everyone, for the kind comments and likes. Agree that it would be helpful to have an EAA downloads section for programs, guides and references. If anyone has a suggestion on another location to post this, please let me know.

Don