Swithin StCleeve

One thing I like about these observation reports is the tales of failures and 'almost seens'. We've all been there, and it's almost as interesting reading about what people tried to see and failed, as it is about what they've seen. It's good to know other people have the same fustrations as me. "Is that it? I'm in the right place!! But is that it?" I get that all the time.

These are great posts Stephen. That's a lovely scope (I'm using a 10" dob at the moment). Looks like you're going at this hobby the same way I did. Star maps, learning the sky, keeping notes, love it! M13 is a funny one. If there's a bit of mist, it looks like a fuzzy blob, but if you have good seeing and crisp skies, it resolves into hundreds of stars and is stunning. Keep trying! I make sure I visit it every session when it's viewable.

Thanks! The interesting thing about writing up observation reports is - you often come away from a session thinking you haven't seen much. But when you start listing what you have seen, it's always more than you think. That's how it is with me, anyway. I should have added I was using a Telrad finder, which is fantastic, except the glass gets misty with dew. I also use a correcting finderscope, but didn't on the 10th as it really was a visit to the brighter, well visited objects, because of the mist and clouds.

Spent 10.30pm-2.45am approx observing with the 10” reflector on its dobsonian mount, and my Opticrom 10x50 bins. The sky was not completely clear at all, and quite misty from 1am onwards. A true ‘hit and miss’ session. But there were a few clear spells, and at times the sky was so clear as to see the Milky Way. Particularly in Cygnus, and the Scutum Star Cloud. I started off as it got dusk and found M13 (the great cluster in Hercules) and M57 (Ring Nebula in Lyra). M13 being very bright already at 5.5mag (O’Meara), and the Ring Nebula ghostly faint at 8.7. I started on double stars before it clouded over for approx. 1hr, at 11pm. Alberio was lovely, and the stars around 02 Cygni (not a double, actually), which showed the colours of blue, gold and silver in three stars in the same field of view. One of my favourite new telescope sights. As it got truly dark (albeit nautical darkness), around midnight, the sky cleared in the east and Cygnus, Lyra and Delphinus (etc) were seen. I looked at the Coathanger asterism (Brochii’s cluster) through 10x50 bins, and easily found M71 in the 10” mirror, in Sagitta. This cluster went unfound by me for years, yet recently I’ve been able to view it. Tonight though, perhaps due to the slight mist in the air, it looked more nebulous than mottled with stars. Ursa Major we heading towards the west, and in a bright patch of sky where the sun wasn’t far below the horizon. I still managed to locate M51 and its companion (NGC 5195). I had hoped to sketch this, but its western aspect meant its spiral arms were lost in the bright, almost twilight sky. I tried for Bode’s galaxy and its companion, but didn’t see it, and didn’t spend much time looking. I did find galaxy M101, (the ‘Pinwheel’), at mag 7.9 in Ursa Major. And this was a treat after so many years unable to find it (why?). Very large in the 32mm eyepiece, and pretty. Again, the summer western sky glow prohibited fainter detail. I can’t wait to re-visit this under inky black winter skies. With Cygnus clear of clouds, I looked at the open cluster M29. The ‘anvil’ as I like to think of it. Its brightest stars were recognisable but I saw nothing like the 80 plus mentioned in O’Meara’s book. M13 was stunningly bright as I re-visited it in the dark patch of sky to the south. What a treat in the 10” mirror! M92 also looked superb. I didn’t find this on my previous session, as I misjudged the memorised ‘triangle’ shape from the top of Hercules. The faint electric light from the toilet block in the adjoining field was throwing out misty ‘streamers’ through the trees, so I knew there was much mist in the air, and my red torch was showing light-sabre like paths of swirling mist. But even so, it was well worth scanning Perseus, now rising in the north. I viewed the Perseus double-cluster through the 32mm eyepiece, and the Pegasus sat cloud through the 10x50 bins. Superb! Between 1am and 2am the Square of Pegasus rose, and I was able to see M31 with the naked eye when the troublesome clouds allowed. Through the 10” mirror, with the 32mm eyepiece the galaxy appeared bright and well defined I thought. M32 was also easily observed (as a ‘fuzzy star) in the same field of view, technically making it the 5th galaxy of the evening. M33 was lost to the skyglow in bins. In a few months it’ll become apparent from my dark sky site. Taking advantage of another gap in the clouds, I spent some time viewing M11 – the Wild Duck cluster. Just to the right of the – now very naked eye visible – Scutum Star Cloud. I first looked at M11 through the 32mm eyepiece, and the distinctly shaped, easily defined open cluster looked fantastic. More stars were resolved in the 9mm eyepiece, although the usual lack of contrast at high power meant the 32mm gave me a more pleasing view. I wasn’t expecting to do any planetary observing , but through thin cloud in the east, the bright ‘star’ I initially thought might be the ISS at first glance, turned out to be Jupiter. It was very misty by this time, and very little detail was seen on the disc. Just the Southern Equatorial Belt,. Three moons were visible, with Calllisto seeming the brightest. Ganymede may have been behind the planet according to Sky at Night mag July 20211 P49. Saturn, (to the right of Jupiter), appeared noticeably different to observations in recent years, as the rings are now closing and the disc of the planet is now visible above and below the rings. I didn’t spend much time on Saturn because of the mist and low elevation. No ring-gap or planetary markings were seen. Jupiter did, however, look very ‘large’ in the 32mm eyepiece, and the edges of the flattened disc looked pleasingly crisp and well defined. Other objects; Mizar and Alcor, (the Horse and Rider), seen easily as a triple star system. And cor Caroli easy to split, a bright gold star with a similarly coloured fainter companion. Around 2.45 it grew lighter, mistier and it was time to put the dob back in its telescope tent. Not a bad session seeing as the evening had only earned a 60% cloud cover rating earlier in the day.

A bit of a belated update on this, but I've found an erecting finderscope and I've fitted it on my dob, with the Telrad finder. My thoughts are - I can get in the area with the Telrad, (and that will help with my needing to 'look along' the finder, in the direction of the object), then I can use the finderscope to star-hop the fainter stars that I can't see via the Telrad. I don't know the magnification of the finderscope yet, but I can compare with my 10X50 bins, and get a good guess. I've really found the suggestions on this thread helpful, thanks guys.

That's a very interesting link, thanks Paul, I've bookmarked it, and I'll buy some paper later and do some printing off later, there's some pretty good PDFs on there. You're right that all we really want, after exhausting the Messier list, is a list of the brightest, coolest stuff to see that isn't in the messier list, basically. My observation notes only have about thirty or so objects that have no Messier number, so I've got plenty to try and find. I also like it that they differentiate between go-to scopes and star-hopping. I've nothing against go-to scopes (having used one to work my way around the Virgo galaxies), but when it comes to observation reports, the method used should always be stated I think. I sometimes read reports on here and I'm unsure if people have used a go-to or not. But that's probably because I'm not very equipment savvy, and don't recognise the mounts detailed.

Rother Valley Optics list Hidden Treasures at £39.00, but they also say check with them for stock before ordering. I'm going to get the Secret Deep, and keep my eye out for a second edition of Hidden Treasures if it gets printed. I've still got loads of objects that are new to me in the Caldwell book. The forward of the Caldwell edition - where O'Meara gets a phone call off the ill guy asking about the name of a star, actually got me choked up. I wasn't expecting that!

It's also good to read modern books written so enthusiastically about visual astronomy as a leisure pursuit. More and more frequently it seems that astrophotography has become the main part of the hobby, (particularly if you look on line). I love it that these books are written for the people who like to seek out these objects and see them with their own eyes.

Thanks Olly. I have found a copy of the rarer book, now I've got to decide whether to take the plunge.

Thanks for that reply Mark, very informative. I've been using an 8" Skywatcher (as in my pic) for the last few years, but I'm in the process of renovating my old 10" dob. I just need to find a way of fixing the spider back on, as the welded nuts have fallen off. So when I get my dob back working, I'll have a little more light-gathering power. This is why I'm reading up on none Messier targets, (I've pretty much seen all the Messier objects visible from here). I was aware some of the Caldwell objects weren't visible from here, but O'Meara's article in the April Astronomy Now magazine got me interested in the list. I've got access to a semi-rural site, so I'm hoping once the dob is working I'll step up my hunt of DSO's a bit. And O'Meara's the man to help me plan my sessions, I think!

I have Steven James O'Meara's The Messier Objects book, and The Caldwell Catalogue. They are both fantastic, and I've since been browsing to see if there are more in the series, and it seems there are three more. There's the Southern Sky, (which won't interest me unless I go one day), and two more; one called The Secret Deep, which is in print, and one called Hidden Treasures, which is out of print (2007) and harder to find. My main question is - are the objects in The Secret Deep different to the objects listed in Hidden Treasures? I think both books feature none Messier/Caldwell objects, but are the objects in the book unique to each book? And a wider question, if anyone has the two books, which do you prefer? (I'd assume the brighter set of objects would be in the earlier book, Hidden Treasures). They're not cheap books, I just paid £28 for the Caldwell book, but the wealth of information is stunning. And at 550 pages, it'll keep me going for a while. I'm only looking at his other books because now I don't want to miss out, should they go out of print.

That's great, thanks. I've got O'Meara's boom on the Messier objects, and it's superb, so I'm looking forward to getting the Caldwell one. I think I was looking 'too close' for C1, if that makes sense. I should have looked for a brighter, larger star field. Thanks again

That'd be great, thanks. I'm going to treat myself to the James O'meara book on the Caldwell objects in the next week. There was an article by him in the Feb or March 2021 Sky at Night magazine, and a full two page list on the objects. I'd like to know if C1 is a telescopic object, or a star field visible in binoculars for starters.

With the renovation on the dob not complete, tonight was my second session with the Helios 15X70 bins on the parallelogram mount, from the semi-rural Bortle 5 site, (which I suspect may be more like 4.5). Please excuse the quick memory type-up, as I didn't make notes tonight due to the cold. Riiight, the winter constellations are heading westward. Two weeks ago I saw Orion, Taurus and Canis Major easily after sunset, now only Gemini remains, with M35 strangely elusive tonight, (why?). But Leo is in the 'sweet spot' of dark sky between the lights of Telford and Wolverhampton, and I'm happy to report I can make a definite sighting of the third galaxy in the triplet, Almost not there, but I made a mental sketch of where I thought it was, checked the maps later and it was where I'd seen it. It was fun to see the galaxies 'arrive' actually. Astro darkness was 11.30 ish tonight, I arrived about ten, with no galaxies to see. Then M66 appears, and as darkness properly falls, M65 grudgingly turns up late. It took a long time for me to find the third galaxy tonight, (NGC 3628). It wasn't till 11.30, and the triplet being in the 'sweet spot' of dark sky, that I was able to admit to myself I could see a slither of mist above and to the left of the other two. At mag 10 this was the faintest object in my list tonight. I've been reading about the Caldwell Catalogue, and there are a few Caldwell objects in Cephus, a constellation I don't think I've visited much. Tonight I found Caldwell 4 - (NGC 7023), which is an emission nebula. I've got to re-visit this, because my notes don't seem to marry up with Stellarium, but Stellarium's labelling has had me confused before, putting object labels in places that don't help with identifying. I'm going to enter the sighting in my log book, because I did see nebulosity, but it didn't seem centered round a star, as it appears in photographs. Two other objects in Cephus - clusters with Caldwell numbers, weren't found . . . or were they? Perhaps these clusters are simply star fields. The Caldwell Catalogue isn't like the Messier one. It's not a list based on comet confusion. I tried for cluster NGC 188 (Caldwell 1), and IC 1396. The latter I've just checked, and at 3rd mag, I would have seen it, so it's basically a star field in bins. I obviously need to research and re-visit these two 'objects'. Coma Berenices, what a constellation! Hardly seen with the naked eye, but Bernice's Hair is superb in bins, (better in 10x50s actually). And lovely and bright tonight was the globular cluster M53 and the galaxy M64. They both live around eleven-o-clock from bright-ish stars, so quite easy to find when star-hopping. M41, the Beehive, the Alpha Persei cluster, all wonderful! The double cluster (Caldwell 14), M103 (an obvious tiny triangle, nice cluster but small in bins). And another galaxy somewhere left of Denebola (Leo). I knew I was in the 'realm of the Galaxies' so a sketch of the surrounding stars helped me confirm later that it was M49 I could see. At 8.4, not a bad catch I think. There's a lazy 'T' shape asterism bottom left that confirmed the sighting. But then again, I'm thinking bins are the way to go for galaxies. You just need time when you're looking, patience. I've not forgotten last year's rural viewing of M33, which was invisible in the telescope, but seeable in bins. Something about two eyes being better... M3, the great globular cluster in Canes Venatici. How bright it is when you eventually find it! For every time I've seen this, I've seen M13 a hundred times. Why do I pass over this fantastic globular? Very bright tonight. I could almost tell myself I could see it as a naked eye star. Ursa Major right overhead made it physically difficult to see galaxy M101, or was it the light pollution from Wolverhampton seven miles away? I've been seeing M101 in 10x50 bins out in Shropshire the past two weekends. Wow, imagine these Helios bins on this mount in the Elan Valley. It has to be done.

I agree! Friday night, under rural skies with nice crisp seeing, I saw M101 for the first time ever, through 10x50 binos! Yet I've looked for this without success with a 10" mirror dob (admittedly in more light-poluted skies). I think M101 is one of those Messier objects that is just out of reach unless you're blessed with nice dark skies. I've seen most of the Messier objects and it's always been a source of some embarrassment that I'd never seen it. I never expected to find it in bins, but there it was, and quite bright too!

Cheers Steve. It's a fine, sturdy mount with the right scope. I was hoping putting bricks under the legs might help, but it needs raising at least 12-18". I ended up putting it on the plinth that John made for the 16" Dob, but it was wobbling about. Thanks for letting me try it out.

Thanks Rob. A couple of years ago I bought a £99 Skywatcher Heritage table-top dob, (it has a 4" mirror.) I made a box for it (out of floorboards, the cheapest way to get real wood!), I varnished it and put brass handles on, and I keep it in the back of my van. I've got this so that I always have a scope ready, with zero set-up time. I use a 9mm Plossl eyepiece, and this little scope has saved the day lots of times. It's got a red dot finder, It looks like a toy, but it's so easy to use, just take it out the box, pop it on top of the box, and you're away. I've seen galaxies, nebulae, double stars, Saturn's rings, loads of stuff. As I said in my report, even though it's got a short focal length, I could see all four stars of the trapezium very clearly, and nice and sharp. I'd completely recommend one of these as a starter or second scope. I've had loads of astro-fun with it.

Some great replies folks, thanks. My only problem with the Telrad is that under not quite dark skies, you can only see naked eye stars. Last night I was trying to find Caroline's Custer, just to the left of Sirius, and through my bins I could see exactly where it was, but I had to guess where I was pointing the Telrad, because the stars I saw in my bins weren't visible to the naked eye. If my bins were attached to my scope, I'd always hit the right spot.

I had quite a healthy list of targets when I set out tonight, but the mount I have for my 8" reflector - a borrowed Vixen EQ - is just too damn short. And I've come to realise, I don't like equatorial mounts, I’m too impatient, I don't like anything that takes time to set up. This is why I'm now officially committed to getting my old dobsonian back in action, ease of use is everything. I had this EQ mount tottering on a wooden plinth to gain height so I wasn't crouching or observing on my knees, and it was ridiculous. And every time I wanted to move it to a new target, I had to grapple round, searching for the two locking levers. When you've had dobsonian mounts for so many years, every other mount is a faff, I think. But I do like the Telrad finder I have attached to the 8" tube. If I had that finder, alongside a 10X correct image finderscope, I'd waste no time at all. That's what I need now. But what did I see tonight? Well, lots of usual suspects, but also some new entries to the observation book. The seeing was quite good under the semi-rural skies about ten miles from the center of the city. The double star Cor Caroli is famous, and I've viewed it before, but not from the observatory site. At 110 light years away, it was the closest object I’d see tonight, (except for Mars). It’s the brightest star under the handle of Ursa Major, and a very nice sight indeed. A golden/ochre coloured star with a smaller similar-coloured neighbour. Realising the insufficient mount was going to curtail my search for fainter deep sky objects, and staying in that general area of Coma Berenices, I visited the pretty open cluster known as 'Bernices Hair', (which by 11.30 tonight was a quite bright naked eye object), and it was superb in the 10x50 Opticrom bins. This loose, open cluster is designated Mellote 111 or Collinder 256. It's fascinating to study naked eye clusters as you start to learn about the night sky. In early spring, we can enjoy the Pleiades, Hyades, the Beehive, Bernice's Hair, (and why not add the often overlooked Alpha Persei cluster? - designated Melotte 20 or Collinder 39 - it's a naked eye object under dark skies and looked splendid tonight). I got frustrated once again looking for M1, the Crab Nebula in the 8”. The slow motion controls on the Vixen mount seemed to be taking me in the right direction, but I couldn't see anything nebulous. Vexed, I got the little 4" Skywatcher table-top dob out the van and found the supernova remnant easily in less than a minute. Good to see it, though I don't know why, but it's been hard to spot recently. Again, the ease of the dobsonian mount had much to do with me finding it. Taurus, (for we are in Taurus still), has an extra red ‘horn’ at the moment. It's Mars, and even in a couple of nights it's moved on considerably from the background stars of NGC 1746 which it was skirting a few nights ago. With Leo hovering right over the lights of Wolverhampton in the distance, I found two galaxies of the Leo 'triplet' quite easily in the 8”, then they disappeared and I struggled to find them again. Once again, I can't admit to seeing the third galaxy of the triplet (NGC 2628). I'd love to impress everyone with my constant sightings of the Leo Triplet, but I've never seen all three. The third galaxy, at 10th mag, just out of my grasp on this evening. (yet I have catalogued 11th mag galaxies from the same site). The two galaxies I could see though, (M65 and M66) were easily recognisable and the shapes distinct and well defined. I always think edge-on spirals are like true islands of stars, but photography reveals they're not quite as 'edge on' as they appear though a scope. Staying in Leo, asteroid Vesta is still visible in bins, though not as bright as a few weeks ago. It forms a small fan shape with Y-Leo. Above Sirius is an open cluster sometimes called the 'Heart Shaped Cluster', (M50). Like M48 in Hydra a few nights ago, I haven't catalogued this in my observation notes at all. Tonight, it was an easy binocular object star-hopping from Sirius, displaying a near-nebulous fuzz, (and an understandable candidate for a false comet). But through the 4" mirror it was actually quite underwhelming given its brightness in the bins, and with a very busy field of stars around it, quite hard to spot. Around the same elevation was the 'Great Cluster' in Gemini, (M35), which I visited straight after, and i have to say, it looked similarly underwhelming. Low elevation, small mirror. No mystery there then. I’d have liked to have used the 8” mirror on these two clusters but with the mount being so ungainly I quite simply couldn’t be bothered. A binocular scan of the open clusters M36, M37 and M38 revealed them to be very bright around 11pm, and the double cluster in Perseus was also easily seen. I searched Collinder 65 – a bright large cluster of stars above the head of Orion – for the ‘Ruby Star’ but couldn’t see any discernible difference in colour. Perhaps it needs photography to see this one? Just as I was packing up due to misty mirrors, I had a lovely surprise. Hercules was rising, following Bootes on his side, and with all my scopes in the back of the van I managed a most welcome binocular sight of the two great summer globular clusters in Hercules (M13 and M92), for the first time this year. Their brightness testament to the crispness of the evening, as the temperature dipped below zero.

I had a right-angled finderscope and found it awkward, but it wasn't the 'right way up'. Is the proper word for this 'erecting'? You know, like when you look through binoculars and it's a true image, instead of upside down? The angled finderscope was on our society's 16" dob. I remeber moaning that I was looking through the finderscope "in the wrong direction, at things upside down". I'm not sure about the angle, I like to look in the direction of what I'm looking at. Don't you find it a hindrance when you're initially lining up your scope Mr V?

I'd like a simple 10X (or thereabouts) 'right way up' finderscope. Any recommendations folks? I'm renovating my old 10" dob, and would like one of these to go alongside my Telrad finder. I'm sick of easily navigating the sky through bins, and then having to re-think the positions of everything through a wrong-way round finderscope. And don't get me started on those 45 degree finderscopes. How do people manage?

Thankyou Jiggy and Corncrake, that's exactly what was confusing me. Stellarium was showing NGC 1746 as 'inside' the larger cluster. But the larger cluster IS NGC 1746. Top banana!

No. Mars is inside the 'horns' at the moment, and Collinder 65 is just outside the horns, if that makes sense. It may not have a name, but looking at it last night I kinda thought 'I bet that's got a name'. There's nothing on Stellarium, at least, the way I have it set up there isn't.

I was looking at Mars last night through my little table-top dob, and there was a bright, large loose 'cluster' of stars in the same field of view nearby. Does anyone know if this has a name/designation? It's not a Messier object but I thought perhaps it might have a name? I know NGC 1746 is there, I'm talking about the cluster of stars NGC 1746 is 'inside', if that makes sense.

Nice one! I'm hoping to do a similar thing. I enjoyed seeing it last night.