PlanetGazer

From my experience, I learned so much about the sky from trying to align the GOTO than my manual EQ scope. Note that aligning the GOTO scope is not a straight forward task for a complete beginner, you would have to learn the bright stars and their positions in the sky with a map/app to align your scope to it. It requires patience in the first sessions. + it's an Alt-Az mount, so you can push it manually any time.

A manual scope, however, would force you to learn more of the sky extensively on the long run. Also, an equatorial manual scope will require you learning Right ascension-declination grid to set-up your mount, the scope doesn't move in an upright motion on an equatorial mount

If you ask me, a manual EQ scope is a good choice early on on the hobby. If you consider the GOTO, I would recommend that you search more on how to use GOTOs before buying it, hopefully it will lead to an informative decision.

Edit: just noted that the scope you bought has an EQ1 mount, note that both EQ1 and EQ2 are note that sturdy.

On 04/09/2019 at 22:03, Louis D said:

As a matter of fact, Mike Clements in Utah did buy such a spare blemished spy mirror and built this.  Apparently, it has a permanent home now.

Does this make you wish the UK had a constellation of spy satellites with lots of spare mirrors?

nice picture there!

This could be of topic, but I wonder how you clean such a big a mirror?

Clear Skies

Have a look at these:

1. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

2.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130.html

This one requires learning how equatorial (EQ) mounts work

3.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

If your are going to go deep in this hobby, pick this rather than buying one now, and another later

Before you buy, search for better deals, and you can price match at FLO

On 09/09/2019 at 06:15, NGC 1502 said:

 

Hi and welcome to SGL.

WOW !!   If you’re actually visually seeing THAT much detail on Jupiter then rejoice big time......

What you’ve posted is more like super high resolution by a very experienced imager.......

 

Ed.

Agreed!

I also had the same issue with my 10 inch, I left it to come into equalbrium with surrounding temperature and manged to get a good view. Though in the last two weeks, I'm not getting the best views, as Jupiter is getting away from us.

I also noted that some nights have a turbulent atmosphere where viewing planets deteriorates extremely, specially when the planet is not up at a high angle.

May I ask what have you used to capture this image?

Edit: just realized it's not your image, my bad

47 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

https://www.skywatcherusa.com/pages/support-center

Download or read through the manual pertaining to your scope here.

I have just had a quick read through you can point to roughly north for autotracking but if you want to use it manually it says point to a bright star and go from there it does explain how you may have more luck this way.

yep, it's the same as the one I have. My scope came with the CollapsibleGoToDobsonian manual, and a synscan manual, both are similar regarding alignment.

53 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

the 7Ah refers to the capacity, not the current. 

charging mismatched and differing state of charge batteries on the same alternator isn't really a great idea

39 minutes ago, Cornelius Varley said:

A battery reading of 11.7v would suggest a battery that was not in a heathy state. A good battery, fully charged, should read about 13.5v-13.8v.

Noted, thanks for the heads up.

31 minutes ago, alan potts said:

As Peter pointed out, every problem I ever had with either the HEQ 5 Pro or my AZ EQ 6 were because of battery, I now use mains and never have a problem. Until now I have said that.

Alan

Reading all the feedback, I can conclude that I will have to test it on a main (AC) power source, and see if it works (that would be me asking my friend to bring his car that have an AC plug). If it works then, I would have to find a permanent working solution for my battery and charger, as I don't have an observing site with an AC power available.

Thanks all for the contribution, I will update this topic after my next session.

Clear Skies

31 minutes ago, johninderby said:

You definately need a proper battery chrager.

Found the following on battery charge.

”Resting fully charged 12-volt batteries are around 12.8-12.9 volts, and flat dead ones are at 12.0 volts, so 12.4 volts on a resting battery means it's about 50% charged.”

Oh!  well thanks for that, I will have to try this next time! I will confirm this after my next session

30 minutes ago, nigelg said:

 

Daylight saving is set to no all times, local time zone doesn't use Daylight saving. All data entry shouldn't be the problem, as I have tried using the Synscan app which enters all data automatically once you allow it to connect to the web and allow location on before the start of linking the app to the scope.

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

There isn’t a clutch release on the Synscan dobs. You can adjust the clutches though.but requires taking things apart. Click on the box below to show the file.

what would make the clutches slip other than heavy weight or cold temperatures? I did use a heavy 5mm eyepiece X-Cel, but was not using the heavy finder with it, only a light red dot finder. Temperatures are high since I received the scope. The scope is new anyways, received it in early August.

1 hour ago, Geoff Barnes said:

All the ones I've seen lately seem to have it. It doesn't interfere with anything and never comes adrift, but you could take it out if it bothers you.

Your Dob must have clutch handles either side of the base if it's a goto model, they all do.

Well I was in a dilemma since I received the scope whether to keep it or take it, but the frustration made take. I regret taking it apart. I will have to find an alternative. regarding the clutches, they are embedded inside the box yes.

Just now, Cornelius Varley said:

Charging the battery through a car battery doesn't seem like a reliable method to me.

Well I checked the voltage before and after, and it does increase, a five minutes charge increased it from 11.7 V to to 12.2 V , this is based on the handset reading. I could charge it at a regular plug (AC), but would have to order a special charging cable.

According to the the Synscan Manual, the requirement is  10 to 15 V and 1 Amp. I remember reading that it requires 12 V and 2 Amp in another manual, but I guess the difference is little, in which both cases is covered by 7Ah by the battery.

8 hours ago, johninderby said:

Just a thought. How are you powering the dob? Insufficient power can cause alignment problems particularily as when slewing during alignment when it can draw more amps than you would expect.

I use a lead acid battery which is 12V & 7Ah, I check the voltage before starting each session using the option on the handset. Currently it's 12.3 V. Below is a picture of the battery (I charge it by connecting it to the car's battery for a few minutes, engine running of course). Is the handset accurate in measuring the voltage? should I get a Voltmeter to accurately measure it?

8 hours ago, masjstovel said:

I had the exact same problem as you and the problem was my Power supply as @johninderby mentions above. I used a supply with too low amps and bought a new one with 2.5 A and it worked perfectly.

 

Other thoughts:
You start from parked position?

Have you calibrated your polarscope? So that your mount is not pointing in the wrong direction because the polarscope is off?

 

The battery used is 7Ah, that should be more than what is required. I'm sure that I reset the park option, and have done a factory rest as well. and there is no polar scope on a dobsonian. it's an alt/azm mount.

Quote

Lastly, it may be obvious and i'm sure you do it, but just to check since i dont find it in your steplist: You balance your scope with the setup you're about to use? And i don't mean to be rude, but you do actually look through the polarscope and align polaris in the right position in the given time? 

I am a newbie and i missed some "captain obvious" points myself my first times so just checking. I would definately try my first tip if everything else is in order - that did it for me.

Not at all, thanks for your help. Also there is no counterweights on Dobs.

8 hours ago, Geoff Barnes said:

A couple of things, 

Leave the foam ring in place, I think it's to keep dust etc. out.

Don't align to magnetic north as shown by the compass, align to true north.

Even when the goto misses its target by a large margin, once you have centred your target by manually pressing the handset buttons, leave it tracking that object for a few minutes and then send it off to another target, it should then be a lot closer to its intended target.

I've had all sorts of similar issues with my Dob, and to be honest still do occasionally, but usually it gets reasonably accurate results once it has been tracking something for a few minutes, it then seems to know where things are.

I was doubting that the foam ring is there for protection, though it's not a reliable material and won't last in place with glue only. Do all SW dobs come like this?!

I will have to try this next time, thanks for the help!

9 hours ago, Stargazer33 said:

I'm not familiar with your 'scope or goto system, but are the alt/az clutches tightened, if it has them?

I would think that the foam ring you removed was there for a reason, unless it was packing to stop parts from knocking together during shipping. Is there anything in the setup instructions/manual about removing packing from that area?

the dob has no clutches, once you point it at something it will stay still unlike non dob mounts

7 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

i dont know about the correct setup for a dob but if it has to be setup pointing north make sure nothing is throwing the compass off. any metal or underground cable could potentially give a reading thats way off. 

I'm sure it's north in this case, as I know the area well, I only use the compass to point with more accuracy. 

Thanks for the tip

Other extra info:

• One time I tried the 3 star align method, the first star to align was capella, the scope slew to capella, exactly, from the first time! But by the time I completed the alignment, the scope was misaligned with the other stars

• There was a foam ring covering the gears between the two wooden layers at the base (glued), it was there the whole time, however I took it apart at the last session. I tried to align after, but no luck. Didn't know the gears were exposed! 

• Here is what I suspect the problem is, but I could be wrong:

• In one of the sessions, I noticed that when the base is level when measured with a spirit bubble, the scope (OTA) is not level, when it's set at zero reading. I would have to move it down minus one of the zero to make it level

• could the gears/morirs be faulty?

• backlash issues? Uncharted waters for me 

I was hesitant to write this earlier, but I wanted to try all possible ways to get my new SkyWatcher 250P GOTO allgined, but to no avail.

I have followed the instruction manuals of both the synscan and SW, and managed to get the message "alignment successful" multiple times on the handset or the app. The closest I got when I tried to dial a different star was a 20 to 25 degrees off on the azimth axis. Most times it's off by a margin on both axes.

I have tried aligning around 30 times on more than 5 diffrenet occasions, different locations as well. I end up ignoring the thing and switch to navigating manually as the eager friends want to observe instantly, but we ran out of objectes and the planets are not close anymore, so I figured it's time to get deeper DSO's and sort out the GOTO.

Here is what I do:

• I level the scope to the zero reading on top of the base

• I make sure the base is level with a spirit level I bought recently

• I point the scope northish, but latley I bought compass to pinpoint north

• I plug all equipments in and then switch on the power from a lead acid battery

• I enter the date ( US fromat, month before day 😕 )

• enter correct time zone obviously

• the coordinates in the format of E 000 00 , N 00 00 

• As for  elevation I use "my  elevation" app, not sure if it's accurate. Does this entry have to be that accurate?

• I tried both brightest star and the 2 star align methods on the handset (which seems to be the same thing apart from the brightest method having an extra menu asking for which direction you are pointing at)

I even used the synscan app and the synscan pro, and tried the 3 star align method. The app uses location and enters all data automatically

•I use the top and right arrows as the last press before centring the star in the eyepiece as  recommended by the manual

These are the steps I follow when I align , is there anythung I missed? Your kind help is much appreciated.

Update: issue solved, check the reply in the second page

On 25/09/2019 at 15:48, Captain Magenta said:

A year or so ago I bought a 12" SW newt from a fellow SGL-er. To say I am very happy with it would be an understatement.

However, take a look at the picture. The 1.25” eyepiece shown (TV DeLite 18.2) is slotted into an adapter which fits, via its circular angled-flange plate, onto the main drawtube-end-adapter, tightened in place with thumbscrews. If I remove the 1.25" adapter, the exposed recess is too big for a 2” eyepiece.

In other words, this scope as it is will not accept 2” eyepieces. I understand they now get supplied with an adapter which allows one to fit 2” units and achieve focus. My problem is that I don’t know what it’s called nor would I likely recognize it from a picture

Could some kind soul point me to a link which shows what I need please?

Thanks, Magnus

I have a similar thing on the 10inch SW, i thought that if you remove the 1.25 inch adaptor, you are left with the 2 inch default opening.

16 hours ago, John said:

Thats a good point. Specialist planetary observing kit is a long term investment currently I reckon

My refractors have had some good views of Jupiter and Saturn but my 12 inch dob has not excelled on them at all this opposition. When they are higher in the sky it's a superb planetary scope.

Shouldn't the 12 " dob show better views of the planets? I have experienced similar problems with my 10 inch dob against the planets, but after leaving the scope to reach surrounding temperature and observe it while it's at an appropriate angle, I managed to get acceptable views, though not as beautiful as the views I get with my 130 scope. Wonder if the focal ratio has a say on planets?

In a plastic cover, in my office. Far away from children as possible.

3 hours ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I think moving from the 130 to the 250 was amazing. When I looked at the moon for the first time in the 250 i felt like the difference was almost a big as the one between the 130 and naked eye (yes I m exagerating)

My first purchase after the 250 was a Telrad finder. I planning on buying a RACI finder and in time the lacerta microfocuser upgrade kit. What about you?

Hahaha on the same boat, I was looking at dual speed focusers yesterday, and have already bought a RACI finder, I use the dot sight from the 130 on the 250 as well. I just searched the Lacerta focuser you mentioned and I'm glad that I finally found an upgrade rather than a full focuser change! Thank you

In addition, got a UHC filter for DSOs that I'll try on my next session. and thinking of getting a focus mask.

8 hours ago, Neiman said:

 

I’ve ordered a polar scope which I hope helps. I’ve got an app - think it’s called ‘planets’. This has really helped me navigate, but being totally new to this astronomy art, I struggled. It will get easier. I found Jupiter tonight and it was awesome. Just awesome.

thanks

neil

Personally I find either stellaruim or skysafari have the best features. Try skysafari free version, it will recommend best views for each night depending on your location.

May I ask what telescope you have/used?

I Admire your commitment! Would love to hear what tips/tricks worked the most for you

8 hours ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

Funny, I just made the same move from SW 130 to 250p. I had the same problem with collimation but someone at a club observing session did collimated mine ... I still am uncomfortable doing it though.

Still my views are much sharper now!

Interesting to hear we had the same choices! Wonder what you think of the upgrade and what have changed for you so far, that could be a different topic though.

22 hours ago, Ricochet said:

Yes, it is the difference between the mirror temperature and the air temperature that causes the problems. I think a fan should work both ways, in that when the air is warmer it will help warm the mirror and when the air is colder it will help cool the mirror. Perhaps you can get better results simply by not using the ac in the car on your drive to the observing site (if that is bearable for any people in the car).

Thank you very much for the help, Ricochet 🙂

12 hours ago, Neiman said:

Hiya John, first time using the scope. I struggled to get the finder scope and the telescope aligned on the same thing ( think I managed it ( didn’t have a quarter mile object to match up ) as my garden is pretty much enclosed. Did the polar alignment ( I think ) and then ate allignment. Found the first star - but then struggled to find the 2nd as the by that time the sky had filled with stars and it all looked a bit samey out of the eyepiece.

 

Try aligning the finder with the scope during day.

For GoTo alignment, maybe planispehre or astronomy map will help you navigate the stars that you need to align to. Also, I recently found out that the GoTo have an option of turning of the star filter, so you can pick stars, in-case your observing site is restricted. Otherwise try to use the filter as it recommends stars for optimum alignment.

And yes Saturn is stunning, try Jupiter and its 4 moons

I share the same feeling sometimes, just discouraged to take my 10 inch dob outside, or spend too much time to set my EQ mount for the other scope.. Not to mention the hot weather here. I was wondering if a binoculars will be a good solution for those nights. If I use it and calm, I may be encouraged to bring a scope, or maybe not.

On another note, observing partners do get me encouraged, even if they are not helpful! Every weekend, for the past weeks, I get back from work, ready up the set, do 3 flights of stairs to carry my 3 scopes to the car+accessories , drive an hour to meet up with the party and stay until 3 AM

It's tough but worth it, It was only me for years, now we are 5. The hardest part is going back home late wanting to go straight to bed, but realise I have to carry everything upstairs