jetstream

Very light high cloud can cause the haze around bright object and observing over buildings causes wobbly images- if you add both together the views could be challenging IMHO.

I usually go from memory when observing, getting the "map in my head" before going out, but the Sky Commander makes things so easy I wonder if its a detriment? I do have to remember all the designators I program in though. From years past I practised object recognition from hunting- identifying animal shapes and shades at dusk. I must add our hunting is nothing like UK hunting.Another thing that might have helped is pre GPS navigation on the lake at night, going by the shape of the tree lines. Not sure but in my case large indistinct shapes are easier for me to see. I'm just curious about all this - I can see the Pelicans head as a Pelican and also the Running Man figure easily raising eyebrows at times lol! Cognitive load, I'm going to check this out for observing.

I must also add that conditions were so good I could not make Cepheus out...

Thanks for this, seeing these images really help putting things in perspective and if this is Ha then it might explain the UHC. Years ago I reported seeing "texture" all over the place in the sky, filtered and unfiltered and there are a few of us that do. I believe now that its bits and pieces of nebula and dust etc. Holy cow thats a great image! I love these widefield B&W images of nebula. Maybe I can use you as a resource to help sort out what I see? One time with the 200mm f3.8 I went from the NAN and traced nebula all the way into Cepheus lol! I got the Wizard that night if I remember. It is so hard to identify some features and objects when in the "sea of nebulosity".

I like lower power eyepieces as they are easier to merge and relax the eye. I use the Binotron 27's with their powerswitch giving 1.4x, 2.4x and 3x approx depending on config. Using 10mm eyepieces I can get 300x easy but prefer to stay a bit lower.

The Splinter NGC 5906 is longer than NGC 7331 and a bit less than half the width and 2 magnitudes fainter. This is a great catch by Dom under his vg skies. The sky makes all the difference IMHO, along with the observer. Knowing your scope and what eyepiece to use with it also can make a tremendous difference.

Not necessarily true Iain- I may not have been in the right spot... more time is needed and I might get the Sky Commander out to help me. Personally I do think you saw it, but now we just need to go over and over to confirm- in my case to find. Yes the Tulip was not hard to see and I think Neil and his 10" would get it for sure- I'm positive actually. If an object appears when panning quickly its usually fairly easy. I'm going after some more of the Little Veil, in the past I saw the other bright section over from where I was last night and hope to pick more up around this area. The 24" is great but makes it all too easy. There is a staggering difference between my 15" and the 24" on this kind of thing.

Thank you so much for this information Martin. I have realized for a few years that there is something going on that enhances (or whatever we can call it) observations.It might be something like "based on my (brain) experiences this little hint of something should be a nebula" or whatever. What amazes me is that my own experience has never shown me something that isn't there or in reasonably correct form. However I think we all see some things differently- an example- the Pleiades Bubble. Mel Bartels has a sketch of this feature that I tried to see and now see regularly, but I don't see it exactly like Mel... an observing colleague, an astro writer confirmed my observation as I described it years ago. I do see some individual features like Mel and others but the object as a whole I (we) see a bit differently. Bottom line there is definitely something there and I guess our brains through our own experiences fill things in or whatever. Whatever the case this object is one of the most beautiful features of the sky as described by me and some others. Last night I viewed the Little Veil SH2-91 immediately and after a bit a ghostly trace of a line appeared above it- another section of this object. While obs the area a lot in the past I havn't for a year or so and did not look at images first, this I did later. My observation of its appearance was correct according to the images, strange stuff indeed. What I am truly interested in is any techniques that might enhance this ability to observe, fill in or what ever we want to call it. I am intrigued by this ^^^ can I do this for DSO ? if so how? Best Regards, Gerry

I went on a mission last night to try the Propeller nebula and after a half hour of failed attempts I decided to go elsewhere. While the IC1318 complex was nice the scope nudged down a bit for a look. The sky was really good with the Milky Way sharply defined and the "hole" (dust) between the Cygnus spur and Cass was readily apparent. It is just off Cass and big. The Crescent offered very nice structure in the 15"/ TV OIII and Nebustar II, 21E- these are very nice filters. After wandering around aimlessly following faint nebula in this area I figured a revisiting the to Little Veil was in order. Not to be fooled by that deceptive very nice chain of stars on the wrong side of the guide star I honed in on the Little Veil, showing as a nice ghost of a streak as always and not thst small in the 1828 fl scope. Very satisfying indeed. During the trip from the Crescent to the Little Veil I stumbled on a nicely defined patch of nebulosity-hmmm did I see this before? Can't remember, so we'll call the Tulip neb a new to me observation. Listed as SH2-101 this neb showed defined maybe oblongish in the 21E and was not hard to see in either the OIII or UHC, the nod might go to the UHC, more testing required and I'll visit often. One more thing- when observing the Little Veil SH2-91 I noticed a very faint streak of nebulosity "above" the main one- and I mean faint. I do believe this is another part of the nebula and this was very satifying to see, I've noticed more nebulosity in the area before but this was a great view of the feature and distinct (very very faintly distinct). This 15" has sure served me well, giving thousands of observations and still going strong, eventhough the Moonlight is now creaking lol!

The best scope is the one you use the most...

Excellent observing Stephan and great info. I think this also points out that those using 100mm fracs or 150mm-200mm dobs (or whatever) are not hindered in any way to see the Veil. It all boils down to matching the eyepiece, using a good filter, observing from the darkest sky you can and then looking in the right spot. All this observing talk has me going to dust off the 200mm f3.8 for some widefield nebula obs.

Excellent. I'm puzzled by the whole thing- take the Crescent nebula. With no filter I see pretty much the same curved spike around 3 stars- all the time. I have observed it with filters that will show very fine filaments in the center. Why doesn't my brain fill this in with no filter? Btw the 24" shows more of everything- some hints of filaments no filter and massive structure with. Again, anyones input is greatly welcomed.

I tend to "wade through" the thick nebulosity in the IC1318 are and its very easy to get lost (for me) sometimes a quick view through the finder has me saying " are you kidding- I'm way over here!"

Excellent and thank you for the information. Question to you or anyone else- can the brain fill in information if it doesn't know what it should fill in? The fill in explanation was one of the ideas tossed around seeing pink and blue in M42. I see pink from 200mm f3.8-15" f4.8 and pink and blue in the 24". I did not see pink at first in these scopes it was after many repeated observations. I did immediately see pink and also blue in the 24". I think I'm going to buy the book Consciousness Explained. I'm also thinking that after repeated observation something happens I'm just not sure what but I always view view view a target object and after this it seems easier and with more detail.

Fantastic observing Iain! After reading your post I learned much more about the area- I tend to just follow nebulosity all over the place here and have difficulty identifying sections. The Propeller confirmed is fine catch!

I have a genuine interest in this and any ideas are appreciated. I see nebula much easier than galaxies but others pickout tiny smudge flicks easier than myself. Eyesight- I wonder how this really works- I think but don't know that the brain is doing more than we realize. I see pink and blue in M42- but- a physicist and optics expert say this is an illusion based on whatever. It might be true- but the illusion is in the right color for the light wavelengths, very puzzling.

One is object recognition which comes from repetition- I go over and over targets for this reason. Once the initial object recognition sets in other features will become visible if its within the grasp of the scope and observer. Another thing- the brain might "store" visual data, triggered by repetition. Just guess. @wulfrun question: Heres a map of the Veil. At the top of the eastern Veil tip there is a very faint detached patch- that Ive been viewing for years. Another if you look really close is a thin thread just to the left of it- some say theoretically impossible. I "discovered" these 2 features which then sent me over to a couple of imager colleagues to confirm as not many images show it. Thoughts?

Congrats! I don't remember for sure but I do think those are the right stars, I'll check. Great observing Dom! For you to be getting these objects in a 100mm indicates a natural ability to observe galaxies. Orthos rule here IMHO and is what I use to confirm very faint Pn and galaxies. The 10BCO barlows so well and I have a bunch of orthos that made the short list. Get hold of a 7mm KK (Fuji) ortho if you can which gives a useable .8mm exit pupil. At some point it goes the other way- ie too much mag but from experience I think you can use a 7mm ortho or the 10BCO barlowed 1.5x. Keep up on this target Dom, over and over and over to build object recognition. and over again...

Congrats to those who saw the Veil!

I'm posting this here so that people starting into astronomy can get an idea of what it takes to see the Veil and others. Most important thing is clear dark skies and tonight I could see the dot of a core in M31 naked eye. SQM is around 21.8 and very clear.It does not take an expensive scope to get top views. Our little Heritage 130 is a most capable scope as youll see in a minute. I used the 25 Super plossl and an Explore Scientific 24mm 68deg which is a fine eyepiece. Also a top notch Televue OIII was Tuck taped to the bottom of the focuser. This combo revealed the Split in the Broom, a hazy detached patch above it and a small patch which is Pickerings Wisp- easily shown. The 'claw" in the other section of the Veil was highly structured as was the body. The Veil showed very well in this scope. Up and over to the North American nebula which is reputed to be hard... it is actually a large and bright nebula again easily seen in the H130/OIII with a detached patch above the Gulf showing. The Pelican neb was also bright as were other chunks of nebs around the area. Now for IC 1318- reputed to be only viewable in an Hb or UHC... I observed the "track" section of this neb with the OIII- moral of the story- try everything you have regardless. As far as galaxies M31 and friends were a piece of cake and a dust lane popped in and out of view as I rolled my eye around. M33- hard right? under dark skies not so much. The H130 chewed this one up as well. Much more observed tonight thats for sure including a lawnchair Milky Way session This particular spec scope likes large objects (short fl and fast f5). So much for the rumor that small scopes and OIII's dont work.

Can you see that detached patch between Pickerings Wisp and the tip of the Western Veil? this is a good start IMHO. Labelled "E"

and snow lol! When we were in the Barbados years ago a local guy who had been up here coined "your from the land of ice and snow!" Robert the Wisp's "faint thread" is easily seen in my 200mm dob, but transparency is key. I would take a very transparent 21.3 sky over a less transparent higher SQM. UK observers who unfortunately observe through lower transparency skies are probably among the best anywhere under clear dark ones. Keep up the good work!

Years ago @John guided me through the process of seeing the Veil, using a 90mm refractor at the time and from 20.5 skies (or so). Magnification (or exit pupil if you prefer) must be in the right range IMHO. A good high tranmission tight OIII is also a huge benefit. Our H130 easily shows the Veil, actually any scope will- if things are well matched.

After a slowdown in observing I've had some great nights observing the Milky Way from a lawnchair- last night it was extremely bright revealing very jagged, sharp structure. I think I'm getting better at this as more and more is seen. It stretched from horizon to horizon and was reflecting off my cars windshield and paint. I just had to get the 15" out, a favorite scope. No new or dramatic targets but dramatic views were had! Pickerings Wisp allowed me to see a feature that the 24" reveals with structure. Not much structure with the 15" but it was seen- follow the Wisp tail a bit and look for a hollow offset "bubble" in the tail line. It is not small and the 24" has fine twisted filamentary structure in it. The 15" did a great job tonight on this, kudos to it! What a scope. The rest of the Veil was stunning and I revisited some very faint features and yes they are still there! Spurred on by @Nyctimene and @Littleguy80 reports I dove in into the IC 1318 area, its massive just massive. The Butterfly always shows new features- this area is a must observe. So onto the Crescent- the short slightly curved line visible with no filter was visible no filter and with the OIII the center filled up with very fine filaments. So, a nudge over to see if LBN 208 is still residing in the area and yes its still there. The thing is there are so many hints of faint nebula in the area that this also is a must observe spot. The finale had me back in the lawnchair again staring in amazement, what a gift.

The new TVs are top tier IMHO... nice choice. I'm going out in a bit to obs- thanks for the motivation!