My first nights of observing

[Chipela]

After a year or so pondering different options (and exchanging some items from the original delivery) I finally have my first complete set of observing equipment: SW 150PDS + EQ5 and eyepieces SW 28mm LET, X-Cel 9mm and Delos 4.5mm.

First night of observing was an almost full moon one week ago. The moon looked crisp and had a lot of contrast when observed with X-Cel eyepiece. I also used a ND 0.9 filter which had been recommended to me for planets and moon but I felt that the moon was still too bright and/or had too much contrast. I wonder what would be the way to get the moon look more greyish (with a lot of shades) than white through the eyepiece?

But onwards, to my second night of observing.  Today the sky was definitely not clear, more like half cloudy and some overall layer of mist but I just had to drag my telescope out to try to observe Uranus and some Messier targets.

I kept searching for Uranus through the evening and most probably was observing the right place but just didn't see it. I wonder if it has so low contrast that it was lost in the layer of mist? Or maybe I was just looking from the wrong place.

But I definitely had luck with some other targets: Pleiades was a nice group of 'diamonds' (been observing it already earlier with binoculars). Andromeda was easy to find too. It's funny that I actually saw just a light smudge which looks nowhere like in the images but I'm still at awe in being able to see an actual galaxy with my own eyes! I'm not sure but I think I saw some hints of light outside the core too despite the weather.

The last target of tonight was Iota Cassiopeia. I had read from somewhere about this triple star and the challenges to collimation etc. when trying to split it. Which I did! I guess this tells something about the quality of 150PDS + Delos 4.5mm and also that my collimation excercises had actually been pretty successful.

[Charic]

It's funny that I actually saw just a light smudge which looks nowhere like in the images but I'm still at awe in being able to see an actual galaxy with my own eyes! I'm not sure but I think I saw some hints of light outside the core too despite the weather.

This is quite normal, I see the same from my observatory!

Your conditions are just not right?  maybe too much light pollution, even though you may think you have dark skies,  you need darker, and a Moonless night  even better!

Take your scope to a dark/darker site and be prepared to be amazed? What was once a faint small smudge, now fills my viewfinder,  so much so, I had to get a wider view, and my Panaview with its 70° is still not wide enough?

No matter the scope, a darker site makes the difference.

Moon filter, Sunglasses! or even leaving the end cap on the scope ( removing just the 2" cap?) will reduce the brightness of the Moon. The 2" aperture will also reduce the resolution of the scope, but it works for some folk, like me.

For M31 Andromeda, you  really need the  darker skies,  quite low power and a wider field eyepiece!  That galaxy is huge! its light is more disperse, making it harder to see, except for the core, which some folk see with just  their own eyes?

If you don't already have it, download the freeware program Stellarium, for those nights when you can't go outside to look up, and for all the other times you want to prepare before a session?

And welcome to the SGL

[Chipela]

This is quite normal, I see the same from my observatory!

Your conditions are just not right?  maybe too much light pollution, even though you may think you have dark skies,  you need darker, and a Moonless night  even better!

I think you are exactly right, I though that my backyard is darker than it actually is. That became apparent on the following night. The sky was cloudless so I took my telescope out again and looked at the sky with a critical eye (both with naked eyes and through the telescope). There was a slight orange tint in the sky and also the milky way was really not visible. It might be that this was partially because the air was quite humid but the site is not dark to begin with, that's for sure.

I decided to pack my equipment to a car and drive 15 kilometers away from the light pollution on top of a hill that I had scouted earlier. What a difference it made! The milky way was clearly visible and as an added bonus I had a good view to all directions.

On that evening I was able to see some new targets and also the old ones with more detail. I was able to spot M33 but even with a better sky the galaxy was just a faint smudge. I split Albireo and saw the blue and orange colors nicely. I think I was even able to see some nebulosity on Pleiades which I found very cool!

I saw Orion raising from the east and checked M42 but that was a bit disappointing because of so much light on the horizon (moon or a city on that direction). One of the nicest targets was C14, the double cluster in Perseus. It framed nicely with my 28mm eyepiece, the clusters had a lot of contrast and the individual, fainter stars around them make a nice background to the actual clusters.

[Chipela]

Forgot to mention: I continued my search for Uranus. I scanned over the area where the app on my tablet claimed the Uranus to be but just saw dots of light which I thought of being stars.

I double checked from Stellarium when getting back home and came to a conclusion that one of those 'stars' actually was Uranus. I guess I was wrong when I expected it to look like a disc with lower power eyepieces (and missed it with my 4.5mm / 167x eyepiece).

I wonder what is the lowest magnification with which Uranus starts to look like a disc for not-so-experienced eye?

[rockystar]

Forgot to mention: I continued my search for Uranus. I scanned over the area where the app on my tablet claimed the Uranus to be but just saw dots of light which I thought of being stars.

 

I double checked from Stellarium when getting back home and came to a conclusion that one of those 'stars' actually was Uranus. I guess I was wrong when I expected it to look like a disc with lower power eyepieces (and missed it with my 4.5mm / 167x eyepiece).

 

I wonder what is the lowest magnification with which Uranus starts to look like a disc for not-so-experienced eye?

I've been the same, pretty sure I've skipped right over it on a couple of occasions. I'm going to try again the next clear night I get as I think it's in a better position now

[John]

I wonder what is the lowest magnification with which Uranus starts to look like a disc for not-so-experienced eye?

Probably around 180x - 200x. Once you have identified it once it's much easier the next time, like so many things in this hobby !

Uranus's apparent diameter is around 3.6 arc seconds which is only a wee bit wider than the gap between the widest pair of the "double double" stars of Epsilon Lyrae.

[Charic]

Chipela..........I'm happy that you have discovered some difference between gardens and darker sites!

It really can make a difference. I drive less than 5 miles away and the Milkyway will cast a shadow on a good night!

I have a site of interest to try out, and according to google earth, no lighting for over 15 miles in all directions, so hopefully will give that a go this month?

Take care.

[digital_davem]

This is quite normal, I see the same from my observatory!

Your conditions are just not right?  maybe too much light pollution, even though you may think you have dark skies,  you need darker, and a Moonless night  even better!

Take your scope to a dark/darker site and be prepared to be amazed? What was once a faint small smudge, now fills my viewfinder,  so much so, I had to get a wider view, and my Panaview with its 70° is still not wide enough?

No matter the scope, a darker site makes the difference.

Moon filter, Sunglasses! or even leaving the end cap on the scope ( removing just the 2" cap?) will reduce the brightness of the Moon. The 2" aperture will also reduce the resolution of the scope, but it works for some folk, like me.

For M31 Andromeda, you  really need the  darker skies,  quite low power and a wider field eyepiece!  That galaxy is huge! its light is more disperse, making it harder to see, except for the core, which some folk see with just  their own eyes?

If you don't already have it, download the freeware program Stellarium, for those nights when you can't go outside to look up, and for all the other times you want to prepare before a session?

And welcome to the SGL

I've never managed to find M31 despite hours of looking. I suspect it's a hopeless cause from London.

[John]

I've never managed to find M31 despite hours of looking. I suspect it's a hopeless cause from London.

Under lots of light pollution it shrinks to a rather unimpressive fuzzy core. I've seen it with a full moon in the sky so my guess is that you should be able to see something but only a pale shadow of it's dark sky glory I'm afraid.

[digital_davem]

Under lots of light pollution it shrinks to a rather unimpressive fuzzy core. I've seen it with a full moon in the sky so my guess is that you should be able to see something but only a pale shadow of it's dark sky glory I'm afraid.

Found it with both binoculars and telescope. Remarkably unimpressive smudge - could be mistaken for a grease spot!   Need better skies.  Bough Beech reservoir about 20 miles away seems to my nearest reasonably dark place. Failing that I'm going to have to wait until the next time we visit our summer house in Dumfries & Galloway or maybe get down to Dungeness.

[BVietje]

@Chipela:  Uranus will just look like a steady, greenish-blue dot at ~6th magnitude.  You'll need a very steady night and high power (perhaps with a larger telescope) to see it as a clear disk.  Your 4.5 Delos woould be good after you find and center it at much lower power.  BTW: that eyepiece must have cost as much as the telescope, mount and other eyepieces combined .  The full moon won't look very good in anything -- wait a few days for significant shadow detail at the terminator, and you'll be blown away.

@digital_davem:  So sorry you have such light polluted skies!  I'm across the big pond, and living in a dark, rural area, where it is an very good view in 15 x 80 binoculars, and quite an impressive sight in almost any 6"+ telescope.  From here, M-31, M-32 and NGC 205 can all be seen in the 8x50 finder, so you'll really enjoy the view if you can get well away from the city.  Sure hope you get to see the sky in all its glory soon!

Clear skies,

BPVietje

Newbury, VT USA

[Chipela]

Concluding my 'first nights' report:

A few nights ago it was a cloudless evening and I continued my search for Uranus. I had a Stellarium screen capture which led me to the same area on the sky I had scanned earlier. The object that Stellarium claimed to be Uranus looked to me like any other star in x26 view. No wonder that I had missed with earlier. Only when I swapped to x167 view, I saw a tiny pale blue disk! It was smaller than I had expected so I had missed it on an earlier night.

The learning for me was that trying to relate the AFOV of the planet in eyepiece to the AFOV of moon when looked with naked eye had misled me. It may be that the AFOV of Uranus was really 1/3 of that of the moon but definitely it looked smaller.

After Uranus I was able to spot a few clusters. I started from M35 and moved up finding M36, M37 and M38 on the way. They looked nice but I still think that C14 is the best looking one from the ones I have seen.

I was also able to find M81 and M82. I was surprised to like them more than M31 (which I had considered being the 'definitive' galaxy). They somehow had clearer shapes which were closer to the images of them than with M31.

All in all a very successful evening after which I'm even more hooked to this hobby!

[Chipela]

@Chipela:  Uranus will just look like a steady, greenish-blue dot at ~6th magnitude.  You'll need a very steady night and high power (perhaps with a larger telescope) to see it as a clear disk.  Your 4.5 Delos woould be good after you find and center it at much lower power.  BTW: that eyepiece must have cost as much as the telescope, mount and other eyepieces combined .  The full moon won't look very good in anything -- wait a few days for significant shadow detail at the terminator, and you'll be blown away.

The mount, OTA and Delos actually costed pretty much the same, ~350e each. I tried to justify the price of a premium 4.5mm eyepiece with my initial idea of concentrating in observing mainly the planets. What is funny is that now my attention has suddenly turned more into galaxies, nebulas and clusters. And what is 'funny' is that yesterday I ended up ordering another Delos (17.3mm) to give me better views on those objects than the 28mm that came with the OTA. Oh well, this is getting out of hand.

Best regards,

Chipela

[Charic]

Chipela........Astronomy can  get out out hand if you let it, so question yourself "do I need it" or is it a case of " do I wan't it"? 

I upgraded my  Sky-watcher Super 25mm for a BST Starguider 25mm  for under 40 GBP ( I think this one was my only second hand Starguider,  and due to the often quoted "Dog of the family"  for that eyepiece, did I need it? Well yes, I did ) it made a big difference  visually, however the Delos route has since become an attractive option to me, especially if I had taken the task of buying a newer 12"  scope this Year, with Delos EPs proven to work at f/4 and slower.

So why the Delos or Tele Vue in particular ?  Their namesake and reputed quality! yet if your eye sight is not what it used to be, like mine?  is the cost worth it,  and whilst I am really satisfied with less premium eyepieces already in my collection, the extra 12° over my 60°afovs is attractive, but up to a limit I would have thought? Even on my 60° EP's, on some targets, the image is ever so small, so I either need less afov or more magnification,  nothing is straight forward in this hobby.

I recently  bought a second-hand Delos ( just to compare - in order  to help better inform folk ( see, it does get expensive)  and sometimes its the only way to try something, unless you have mates like ghostdance!  But  I'm often asked,  in a roundabout way " have you ever  tried  ?????? product " and if not, how can you compare, so now I can! )  and  It was an easy decision to purchase, knowing that  I  will be able to sell it on,  if needs be!

I have had a quick view, but in all honesty have not had the perfect weather conditions or timing to properly  asses it with the other 6mm EPs  in my collection, suffice to say, the Delos  has a much wider view than the other 6mm EPs. I need to further check out the  contrast and how other  targets look like under the wider views. remember here, I'm testing them for my eyes, and they alone will decide the outcome? I also own the 32mm 70°afov Sky-Watcher PanaView, and  can't see me selling that in favour of a Tele Vue just for the sake of owning the brand!

Unfortunately or fortunately, because of the low price, the 6mm Delos arrived first, which perfectly matches my f/6 scope providing a 1mm exit pupil, at 200x power, but I wanted to buy just three Tele Vue EPs, the  8,12 and the 17.3, that was the original plan ( back to the drawing board!)  but  as stated above, I will keep the 32 mm PanaView.  The  12mm Delos , giving 2mm exit pupil, and Barlowed to provide 200X when/as necessary could have been a better option to first asses the Delos range?

All said, if the price is right, and the right offer comes your  way, wouldn't you be tempted? 

[rockystar]

Nice report Chipela,

I think you found almost the same things I did the other night. Uranus was very easy to miss and I had to keep going back to stellarium to confirm I'd found, a bit more magnification confirmed it wasn't star and was a very small blue disk, no moons and no detail though.

M81 and m82 were also bagged and thought they looked great, I think m31 needs truly dark skies to see it in all its glory, which I am yet to experience.

Many more exciting nights ahead

[digital_davem]

Chipela........Astronomy can  get out out hand if you let it, so question yourself "do I need it" or is it a case of " do I wan't it"? 

I upgraded my  Sky-watcher Super 25mm for a BST Starguider 25mm  for under 40 GBP ( I think this one was my only second hand Starguider,  and due to the often quoted "Dog of the family"  for that eyepiece, did I need it? Well yes, I did ) it made a big difference  visually, however the Delos route has since become an attractive option to me, especially if I had taken the task of buying a newer 12"  scope this Year, with Delos EPs proven to work at f/4 and slower.

So why the Delos or Tele Vue in particular ?  Their namesake and reputed quality! yet if your eye sight is not what it used to be, like mine?  is the cost worth it,  and whilst I am really satisfied with less premium eyepieces already in my collection, the extra 12° over my 60°afovs is attractive, but up to a limit I would have thought? Even on my 60° EP's, on some targets, the image is ever so small, so I either need less afov or more magnification,  nothing is straight forward in this hobby.

I recently  bought a second-hand Delos ( just to compare - in order  to help better inform folk ( see, it does get expensive)  and sometimes its the only way to try something, unless you have mates like ghostdance!  But  I'm often asked,  in a roundabout way " have you ever  tried  ?????? product " and if not, how can you compare, so now I can! )  and  It was an easy decision to purchase, knowing that  I  will be able to sell it on,  if needs be!

I have had a quick view, but in all honesty have not had the perfect weather conditions or timing to properly  asses it with the other 6mm EPs  in my collection, suffice to say, the Delos  has a much wider view than the other 6mm EPs. I need to further check out the  contrast and how other  targets look like under the wider views. remember here, I'm testing them for my eyes, and they alone will decide the outcome? I also own the 32mm 70°afov Sky-Watcher PanaView, and  can't see me selling that in favour of a Tele Vue just for the sake of owning the brand!

Unfortunately or fortunately, because of the low price, the 6mm Delos arrived first, which perfectly matches my f/6 scope providing a 1mm exit pupil, at 200x power, but I wanted to buy just three Tele Vue EPs, the  8,12 and the 17.3, that was the original plan ( back to the drawing board!)  but  as stated above, I will keep the 32 mm PanaView.  The  12mm Delos , giving 2mm exit pupil, and Barlowed to provide 200X when/as necessary could have been a better option to first asses the Delos range?

All said, if the price is right, and the right offer comes your  way, wouldn't you be tempted? 

get yourself a classic slow refractor like mine.  Works just the same with a coke bottle as an eyepiece. Saves a fortune!