Upgrade my Plossls?

[phil125]

I have a range of Meade 4000 Super Plossl and Celstron standard Plossl eyepieces which I use with my 80ED f7.5 and 250 newt f4.8. I've been thinking for some time of upgrading to Televue Plossls. Has anyone made a comparison, or think I would tell the difference compared to my Meade/Celeston Plossls? I also think my current Plossls are struggling at f4.8 - would the TVs be better for a faster scope?

Any advice or comments welcome.

[Mak the Night]

I changed all of my Plossls to TeleVue a while back and I have all of the 1.25" TV Plossls except the 40mm. They really are the best Plossls I have ever used. The 8 & 11mm only have 6 and 8mm eye relief but are very usable with the 11mm TV having the same ER as the 12.5mm Celestron Omni, the 15mm has a relatively decent 10mm ER with a 12.6mm field stop. The 20mm has a 17.1mm field stop and 14mm of eye relief. The 25mm and especially the 32mm Plossls are outstanding. The Celestron 32mm is good but once you use the TeleVue equivalent you won't want to go back. I was observing M42 only recently with the 25mm Plossl as conditions weren't good enough for the magnification with my 16mm T5 Nagler and I realised just how good the 'Big 25' was! I hadn't taken the case out with my Panoptics in so I had to improvise with my Plossls lol. You'd notice the difference with Celestron or Meade. I believe TV made their reputation with their Plossls. 

[Fozzie]

Morning,

I changed from GSO plossls & Orion Sirius Plossls to Televue plossls after I bought a second scope which came with a 25mm TVP. 

My initial thoughts were that the TV were better but not by a huge amount, so I would advise against expecting a drastic jump in quality of view if you did swap over, albeit you have the assurances that you've got probably got as close to the best that the plossl optical design can give. 

Suspect you would notice the difference more in the Dob than the frac...

One thing I can say is that if you buy second hand, they come up regularly enough, you can also sell for minimal loss if you don't like them..

However, Interestingly, I have since traded all the TV plossls in for the Vixen SLV's which have given a noticeable betterment, not just in the actual view but also in comfort. Thread Below.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/249143-stick-or-twist-tv-plossl-to-slvs/

Don't know if that helps at all, good luck in your choice..

Thanks

Fozzie

[alan potts]

You will see the difference in your Dobsonian because it is fast enough to find out these eyepieces. I had one about 3 years back and after using it in my fastest scope at the time, gave it away. I have two TV Plossl eyepieces 11mm and 15mm, I find the shortest one a bit tight, it stopped me buying the 8mm, but we are all different.

Alan

[Paul73]

+1 for the SLV's.

I am genuinely interested to know why Plossls are still so popular. They are uncomfortable to use (certainly at the shorter end). The FoV is only 50%..... My guess that they give great performance for the money?? £50 for a second hand TV sounds lie one hell of a bargain. £60 for a nice comfy SLV seems worth the extra £10???

I'm toying with an SLV or a TV Plossl at about the 20mm-25mm mark to give me more options on the really low contrast stuff.

Paul

[Fozzie]

Thread Highjack!!!!  (Although it's still applicable in some respects )

I've found the biggest gains in the SLV's over the TVP's is in the lower focal lengths, plain and simply 20mm eye relief and a huge lense to look through at 5mm, 6mm and 9mm FL EP's is a huge point score over the equivalent plossl of any brand.

At the longer FL as eye relief increases it's less of an issue and the two are more evenly matched, although I personally think the SLV's has the edge based on a night with the veil that just jumped out more in the 20mm SLV than the equivalent 20mm TVP.

apologies to original poster for the tangent...

Thanks

Fozzie

[alan potts]

Paul,

The FOV is only 50% of the Ethos, true. .

John rated the SLV's he tested very highly, I wanted one myself but at the time could only get it from a supplier I will not use. Next time I get something from FLO I will buy from them.

I like the 15mm TV in my LX when I am looking at Jupiter, for me it showed more than a close Delos a few times, I just need the King to get up in my sky at a reasonable time now.

Alan

[Mak the Night]

+1 for the SLV's.

I am genuinely interested to know why Plossls are still so popular. They are uncomfortable to use (certainly at the shorter end). The FoV is only 50%..... My guess that they give great performance for the money?? £50 for a second hand TV sounds lie one hell of a bargain. £60 for a nice comfy SLV seems worth the extra £10???

I'm toying with an SLV or a TV Plossl at about the 20mm-25mm mark to give me more options on the really low contrast stuff.

Paul

I recommend the 25mm TV Plossl. I think it is the sharpness and clarity that makes them still so popular. 

[Moonshane]

We are a bit off topic but it's relevant to some extent. When I use e.g. my 8mm Delos on the moon, I find I am constantly trying to avoid the 'ring of fire effect' which is common in wider field eyepieces such as Delos, Naglers and Ethos. I therefore much prefer plossls, orthos and (I have recently discovered) Delites with their narrower field as they seem to suit my eyes for this object. For most other targets this is not an issue and the wide field eyepieces really come into their own. The plossl though and especially the Televue plossls are really excellent eyepieces when well made although of late I find myself increasingly looking toward observing comfort given the somewhat restricted number of sessions due to the weather in the UK. I therefore sold my plossls to find a 24mm Panoptic and 11mm and 7mm Delites, since adding an 8mm Delos. My 'collection' will be complete with either a 14mm Delos or possibly Radian or even a 13/15mm Delite should one be produced.

In short, the TV plossls are as good as a plossl gets but won't be extraordinary against more modest units. The SLV would (based on reading not experience) give greater comfort and the same sort of visual quality. A Delite would in my experience provide the best of all worlds for my eyes at least, on the moon although even wider fields would be excellent on all other targets.

[Paul73]

Sorry for the unintended hijack. I was just testing if Plossl to Plossl was the best way forward.

Thanks for the thoughts though. I like my SLV's but have never looked through a TV Plossl.

Paul

[Moonshane]

I don't think it's gone partic off track as there's some useful comparisons here.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/166265-cheap-vs-expensive/might help too.

[John]

... When I use e.g. my 8mm Delos on the moon, I find I am constantly trying to avoid the 'ring of fire effect' which is common in wider field eyepieces such as Delos, Naglers and Ethos. I therefore much prefer plossls, orthos and (I have recently discovered) Delites with their narrower field as they seem to suit my eyes for this object....

I don't want to take the thread off topic either but I was interested that the Vixen SSW 83 degree eyepieces that I tested recently did not show the "ring of fire" effect around their field stop. They had one or two other issues, but not that one.

On the original posters question, I think Tele Vue plossls would be better corrected for astigmatism towards the edge of the field of view in your F/4.7 than the Meade and Celestron plossls are and their light transmission is practically the best around. In day to day use the differences will probably be subtle as such benefits only become more noticable when pushing the scope, observer and seeing conditions towards their limits. Nevertheless it's nice to know that the eyepiece is not even a slightly weak link in the optical chain.

[bingevader]

See if you can pick a TV plossl up second hand and have a look.

You'll be able to shift it without any problem what so ever if you don't think it's worth it.

People's eyesight and 'scope vary so much that really only you will know.

I bought mine to replace the stock SW EPs, but tested them against my Meades, I know my dob is only f5.9, but I'd have been disappointed if it had been a TV/Meade swap.

As for why they are still popular, other than the price, here's my 2p:

I don't find them uncomfortable down to 8mm.

They're great for taking on holiday with a barlow.

[spike95609]

I use a couple of TV Plossls in my F/4.7 dob and they're entirely fine. No distortions or problems that my inexperienced eye can notice with the 15mm - everything is sharp to the edge with lots of contrast. There is a bit of coma in the outer edges of the 32mm as it's such a wide angle, but that's the scope's fault and it doesn't bother me at all. I've never used any other plossls though so I can't say whether it's worth upgrading from your current set.

At the risk of taking this semi-off topic again, my original plan was to fill in the gaps in my EP range by getting the 8 and 11mm TV plossls as well, however the price of both has shot up recently - they're currently £15 more expensive than the 15mm and a tad more than the 20 and 25, which makes absolutely no sense to me at all. But now that FLO have knocked the price of the Vixen SLVs down to £99, I'm seriously looking at forgetting the 8 and 11mm TVPs altogether and getting a 10mm SLV instead. Comparable performance and no eye relief to worry about.

[Highburymark]

Also worth remembering that the Meade 4000s are still very decent eyepieces - much closer to TV performance than some other mid-market plossls. but for me anything below 12mm makes for uncomfortable viewing in a Plossl - there are so many better options at an affordable price at higher mags these days

[callisto]

You will see the difference in your Dobsonian because it is fast enough to find out these eyepieces. I had one about 3 years back and after using it in my fastest scope at the time, gave it away. I have two TV Plossl eyepieces 11mm and 15mm, I find the shortest one a bit tight, it stopped me buying the 8mm, but we are all different.

Alan

Alan's right, everyone is different when looking through eyepieces, I have had some good recommendations and found them bad and vice versa 

[John]

Also worth remembering that the Meade 4000s are still very decent eyepieces - much closer to TV performance than some other mid-market plossls. but for me anything below 12mm makes for uncomfortable viewing in a Plossl - there are so many better options at an affordable price at higher mags these days

The older Japanese made 4000 plossls were good as were the 3000's but I've had some poor examples of the later chinese ones I'm afriad

[Mak the Night]

Also worth remembering that the Meade 4000s are still very decent eyepieces - much closer to TV performance than some other mid-market plossls. but for me anything below 12mm makes for uncomfortable viewing in a Plossl - there are so many better options at an affordable price at higher mags these days

I think most Plossls below 15mm can be tiring after prolonged use. The 8 & 11mm TV's are my least used eyepieces. I haven't had a real chance with the weather to properly test my new bino's yet but I have a pair of TV 15mm Plossls that I have used in them and I predict they will be used more than any other EP's I have as bino pairs.

[phil125]

Thanks for your comments everyone, really useful. I had not considered SLVs, will have a look. I think it will be worth upgrading for my f4.8, I'm convinced my current Meade's shorter than 20mm FL are not suited to very fast optics. Also considering a barlow upgrade - buts that's another topic!

[Mak the Night]

At the risk of taking this semi-off topic again, my original plan was to fill in the gaps in my EP range by getting the 8 and 11mm TV plossls as well, however the price of both has shot up recently - they're currently £15 more expensive than the 15mm and a tad more than the 20 and 25, which makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

I wonder if it is because they don't sell as well as the others and it is a way to make them more cost effective?

[Mak the Night]

Thanks for your comments everyone, really useful. I had not considered SLVs, will have a look. I think it will be worth upgrading for my f4.8, I'm convinced my current Meade's shorter than 20mm FL are not suited to very fast optics. Also considering a barlow upgrade - buts that's another topic!

Well, talking of Barlows ... http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=52

[Saganite]

TV plossls are without doubt the finest  and I have had them all including the 10.5 and 13mm smoothsides and thought I would never part with them, but I do not have one now for no other reason than that one's scopes and targets change, not  to mention eyepieces. As they became available I have picked up a 12mm Delos, 7mm Delite, and 16mm Nagler, which for me ,anyway, rendered the plossls nearest to those sizes, surplus to requirement. I have even parted with my 32mm TV, to my great surprise in favour of a 2" wide angle 34mm.

TV plossls are gems and worked beautifully at f5 and f9 for me. Not many can do that, so I would go ahead and enjoy them, and has already been said ,you

can always move them on, without loss ,if you buy used.

[Paul73]

It would be a shame not to have a couple of these in your collection as they are the benchmark Plossl.

Unfortunataly my wallet won't stretch to such an indulgence.

Paul

[niallk]

I use 15mm TV plossls on the moon and planets in my f/4.7 250px with a binoveiwer (+2.5x barlow). They are beautifully sharp in use, lovely EPs tbh.

However, imho, in a manual dob going to wider afov is very rewarding. Just wondering if a punt on a 2nd hand Nagler would be worth considering - if they turn up as people sell on to fund Ethosusses or Delosusses..?!

Best of luck!

[spike95609]

I wonder if it is because they don't sell as well as the others and it is a way to make them more cost effective?

Actually I suspect the opposite is true, back in the day when I was watching this sort of thing closely, Telescope House always seemed to sell out of the 8 and 11mm TVP first. That could be due to not keeping many of them in stock though.