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Trying to get a streetlight shielded, not going to well.


Robp

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Hi Fellow loungers

Firstly apologies if this isn't the right location, please move if needed.

A couple of months ago I decided to engage the council in an attempt to get something done about a streetlight next to my garden.

Some background:

I live in a new build house (2 years old) so the streetlights are brand new.

I live on a corner plot so the side of my house/garden is next to a crescent\road. There is a streetlight right next to the back of my house.

So after lots of movement through departments I finally got an answer to my two questions I posed to them which were:

  1. Can you switch the light off permanently
  2. If not can it be shielded instead

I’m not going to post all of the Email here (It was quite long and included all the usual safety blurb). The answer to the first question didn’t surprise me:

by providing a system of street lighting which illuminates the highway to the required national standards, Staffordshire County Council do not allow lighting units to be permanently switched off.

Fair enough, but the answer to the second question did surprise me:

With respect to providing a shield on the back of the lantern, columns are manufactured to allow the column to withstand the weight of a lantern. By installing a shield behind the lantern at the top of the column, the wind loading of the column is amplified and may shorten its expected structural life expectancy, which in turn would increase future maintenance liabilities.

Now I’m not a structural engineer so is this for real? I have heard of a shield being applied to other lights around the country but I’ve never heard of someone being declined because it would impact structural life expectancy. Are they really that big that they would hinder a metal column like this? The developers were fine to attach metal poles and signage to the lighting when they were building the houses :rolleyes:

I am going to be taking this further and pushing for a shield solution, was keen to hear your thoughts before I reply/take further action.

Rob

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there's some wonderful darkish skies in north staffs...I'd try there!

I would love to get out to some of the darker skies around here but unfortunately my rig isn't potable at the moment and I don't drive.

I am hoping to get both of these sorted early next year but I also have a young child to look after and it is a lot more convenient to be able to head outside into the garden to do some imaging and be on hand to do stuff around the house.

Its also not only this hobby that it impacts, sitting out in the garden at night is quite impossible as the light makes it look like daytime! I'll post some pics up when I get home.

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They are fobbing you off with the structural integrity excuse, the extra weight of a thin aluminium or steel shield combined with the additional potential wind loading will be negligible.

There will be a very, very small negative impact on the likely lifespan of the structure as it will be subjected to marginally increased stresses and strains.

It would be very difficult to calculate the reduced lifespan.

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I told my council, that the street light, should

light up the road ,not the back of my house as

well. It was like having a search light in my

living room. They put a defuser  on the light ,

as well as a shield, on the front of the lamp post ,

 in the end. I spoke to the person who was

doing the work. It was a new lamp post they

were putting in, which was taller than the old

one.

Steve.

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Very interesting to read this, you're story is almost exactly the same as mine!

Only difference is that the council has yet to adopt the roads, yet the house builder denies it is their responsibility [emoji30]

Will follow this with interest

Sent from my Fone

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An opaque coating of white paint on the right side of the lamp might be a solution. As a benefit, the road would get a bit of extra light.

Provided permission is sought from the relevant council. :)

Might be wise to do some research on light trespass and consider whether it is worth approaching the issue from that angle: (you will have more success if you live in a residential area)

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/cleanact.html

It is very unusual to have a lack of cooperation and understanding.

If the light is preventing you from sleeping, or there is too much light coming into your child's bedroom, it is worth mentioning that - especially if blackout curtains don't work.

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Sorry to hear your problem.

Our unitary authority sent a chap round to paint out the offending portion of the street light (the bit that shines into my house/garden) within 48 hours of my email.  I was amazed at this but very grateful.  The chap even apologised that he couldn't do more! 

It would be hard to  use the 'structural overload' argument for a coat of paint, wouldn't it?  Try suggesting it to them?

Unfortunately I forgot to mention astronomy when I emailed them but instead concentrated on disturbed sleep, sending an image of the view from an upstairs window.  This appeared to carry some weight.

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Thanks for the replies so far.

I have two bedroom to the rear of the property but unfortunately (or fortunately!) neither one has any significant light ingress. I may suggest the paint option but I think the issue is that the garden is under the light. The main ingress is the garden (you cant face in that direction without shielding your eyes, and you cant sit facing it!) and a small conservatory we have.

I did talk to the house builder when the lights were going up, and they to said it wasn't there responsibility. I contacted the council at that point (This is the second time I have contacted them) and they said it wasn't there responsibility as the roads hadn't been handed over to them, I had to speak to the developer :huh:

Here is a picture of the offending streetlight in daylight:

post-11689-0-44332500-1448565923.jpg

and two images taken during the night without any flash or additional light (apologies for quality, taken with my phone):

post-11689-0-41991900-1448565908_thumb.j

post-11689-0-50153200-1448565921_thumb.j

Excuse the garden, its a work in progress :grin:

Its a shame really because I have a lot of sky available to the west due to the layout of the houses, but that's right where the streetlight is. most of my imaging is either east or up.

The only other option I can think of would be to build my own shade that I could mount on the wall when imaging / entertaining.

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Tell the Council that you feel you were fobbed off with an excuse (I'm sure you were), and ask them to investigate alternative such as paint.

Consider asking your councillor to help.

If they don't respond to your satisfaction, you may complain, and if you still don't get a satisfactory result tell them you will go to the Local Authority ombudsman for a ruling.

I once had a non-frivolous complaint (on behalf of a charity I worked for). It was upheld by the ombudsman and it was the only one they got against them that year. There was hell to pay  - we suffered a bit in lost goodwill, but not as badly as we had suffered from their failure to meet their obligations.

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Thanks for the replies, I'll definitely be pushing for a resolution with them first and go the Councillor/Ombudsman route as a last resort.

On my walk to work this morning I noticed that lots of the streetlights in our area already have things attached to them. Down my road for instance there are metal poles attached to the tops with advertisements hanging off (they look like massive sails!) and every other streetlight has some sort of road sign attached. The fact that they say it may shorten its expected structural life expectancy says to me that they don't actually know it will, but are just guessing.

I have gathered some photos of the other streetlight extras and will compile a response over the weekend

The Ivy looks pretty, but I don't think it would solve the light pollution issue :grin:

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Yes its a shame about the street lamp problem and I hope all works out for you. The lamp outside your house looks horrific!  Here I have a problem too and have to use next doors wall to shelter from some of the lamp light shining on our terrace in order to see some of the sky. But here at least the street lamps are fixed half way down onto the houses in the street giving low light, and in the early hours the lights all over the town are switched off leaving just the one side of every street lit. Unfortunately the pesky lamp that shines on our terrace is bang at the head of the road and our house is the first house on the street - a very steep hill giving me the short end of the straw! Good luck with your problem

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Robp, You have my sympathy! looking at your streetlight photo, do you think that the kind of shield the light may need is something travelling down the length of the lamppost for a distance, rather than a shield on the light itself? If the light is LED and fairly directional this may work as there may not be too much light spill.

I've heard that some people put up temporary shields in their gardens using a scaffolding pole and board or two poles with material stretched between. Maybe that may work. I'm thinking of that solution to mask my neighbours retina-melting security light.

Good luck! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So not much of an update to this yet.

I have sent off my reply asking for extra information on the reduced life expectancy of the streetlight and what that is based on. I also asked why other methods havn't been proposed instead and were there any that could be explored

I also mentioned the amount of streetlights that already have items attached to them and asked why shielding my light would seem to be the exception. I even managed to find a streetlight with a roadsign attached that also had an additional light above the sign as well!

I havn't had a responce yet so will let you know once I do.

Robp, You have my sympathy! looking at your streetlight photo, do you think that the kind of shield the light may need is something travelling down the length of the lamppost for a distance, rather than a shield on the light itself? If the light is LED and fairly directional this may work as there may not be too much light spill.

I've heard that some people put up temporary shields in their gardens using a scaffolding pole and board or two poles with material stretched between. Maybe that may work. I'm thinking of that solution to mask my neighbours retina-melting security light.

Good luck! 

I have been thinking about designing and making a removable shield I can mount on the wall. That should prevent a lot of the light heading towards the scope but wont help woth the light coming out the sides. I am going to continue to persue the light shield option and see what happens as having both would be more beneficial to only having the home made shield.

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Structural issues! What an idiot.

Maybe he has been looking at mediaeval jousting shields?

I think that a strongly worded letter to your councillor is required.

They are clearly letting someone incompetent loose.

if they get something basic like this wrong, what about more complicated issues?

I'm off now to contact my local light pollution agency. Nottinghamshire county council.

They have lots of street light standards that are clearly overloaded with Christma decorations right now.

Next summer they will be collapsing under the weight of hanging baskets.

Then there is the danger of the poles falling over when someone leans a ladder against them to fit a temporary sign.

I haven't even started on whether the turbulence and vibration from passing lorries would start a collapse.

I would laugh. But sadly these idiots are very difficult to remove from public sector posts. They just keep causing problems and wasting our money.

Good luck in your efforts.

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So I have finally recieved a reply:

We have in the recent past had to replace a number of columns around the county which structurally failed earlier than expected. These units had been fitted with attachments which we consider on reflection were the cause of the early structural failure of the columns. Therefore for obvious reasons, we are now extremely cautious regarding allowing attachments that could affect the long term structural capability of a column.

With regard to signage, columns are designed to accommodate warning signs at a point 2m to 3m high on the column, but baffles are by their nature are positioned at the top of the column and can act like a sail and would amplify the wind loading. Also as they are rigid, additional twisting motions would also be added, thus putting the column under extra stress.

I feel this is going to take longer than expected to get resolved

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Hi Peter,

I think its more the fact that they are not willing to help at all that is the most annoying thing.

His reply says that they are cautious when applying shielding to a streetlight so there isnt a ban on applying the shielding.

He gives no reasoning as to why he wont do it for example it wont be very efective, it costs to much or its not severe enough to warrant a shield.

He hasn't even offered an alternative such as paint or an internal baffle. It just seems like they are not interested in helping at all.

I have replied again but have recieved an out of office reply until next Tuesday. I'm trying to remain civil in my replies but it is getting harder to maintain :grin:.

I'm going to look into contacting the local counciler in the meantime to get that ball rolling.

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My baffling in also inside the lamp head.

My council at the time said the contractor may either baffle the unit or apply black paint to the offending side.

I suggest you keep going as baffles ate applied to the interior of the lamp head and mine look a little like what you get in a cat2 office light unit.

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Partial success for me so far - one of the offending lights has now been shrouded on the outside(from my request to completion took about 4 weeks).

It has made a big difference to the darkness levels in my garden, the remaining offender has still to be shrouded and I'll give them a polite remindersoon.

Hopefully others will have success soon enough.

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