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Is this a good starter telescope?


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Hi all,

I've read a few posts here but I've never contributed.  I feel a bit bad that my first post is a question....

I've always had more than a passing interest in space (I did a few astrophysics modules as part of my maths undergraduate studies...)  and so I have spent a bit of time looking upwards.  But I have never owned a telescope.   Maybe the time has come.

I think I should test the waters a bit to see if stargazing with a telescope is what I hope it might be.  But I live in Leighton Buzzard (Near Milton Keynes) and I'm not sure if I'm far enough away from major light pollution.  So I don't want to spend hundreds and hundres of pounds.  I'm probably going to be a back garden astronomer with little chance of getting out to dark sky areas (unless it's by chance on holiday :-)  )

I stumbled across this deal on Amazon - £240 reduced to £161.  It seems like a steal to me!   It's a Celestron Astromaster  130EQ MD (includes cheapo motor drive)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestron-31051-Astromaster-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B0013Z42AK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448484145&sr=8-1&keywords=celestron+130eq+md

Can anyone comment on this particular bit of kit?  I'm sure I can't expect wonders for that price but it might be a practical first step for a beginner.

I'm not fussed about computerised 'goto' mounts - I think I'd enjoy the challenge of learning how to find stuff 'properly'.   The rig I linked to has an equatorial mount which I think might be best long term. I might even be able to mount or piggy back my DSRL for some photo fun (although my expectations are very low here - my budget is absurdly small )  For that reason, I think I need to avoid AZ mounts.

All hints and tips gratefully received!

Mike

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Hi and welcome [emoji4]

TBH mate it's not much of a deal. The same scope is £149 from the site's sponsors First Light Optics. I have the skywatcher equivalent-ish (Explorer 130P) on their EQ2 mount with a cheap RA motor. I managed some webcam imaging of the moon and Jupiter (where you put a modified webcam where the eyepiece normally goes). It was fun, but also a bit frustrating. I love the scope and enjoy the foibles of the EQ mount and it was a great introduction to astronomy. I'd suggest taking a look at a dobsonian mounted scope. Best bang for your £, by all accounts [emoji4]

Good luck and clear skies.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I bought this scope about 6 months ago. Optics are OK. Stand is heavy, but OK if you like Equatorial mounts (found out I don't). The motor is a waste of time unless you have the stand perfectly set up and level ( which is very hard to do), but not only that you lose the ability to use the slow motion control with the motor on it to track east or west. You can track it up and down OK, just not left or right with the motor on. What this means is that you have to manually get the object in view, and then when centred turn on the motor. In the end I just took the motor off the scope all together. Never worked well for me, and rarely use the scope now. The other let down of the scope is the Starpointer for getting your scope lined up with the object you want to view. Apart from perhaps getting the moon in view, it is pretty useless. I paid less than what Amazon are asking, and to be honest I feel let down by the scope really. Now use a 120mm refractor and an Alt AZ mount, and much happier. To be honest I would avoid it like the plague.

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I have a Celestron 127EQ and its bad against my 200P skyliner, bad for personal reasons? 

Has a horrible  wobbly mount, that requires to much / continual configuring when set up, instead of just enjoying night time observations. The image quality is not very good either, even with better eyepieces fitted. I just don't like the scope any more.

It works ok on the Moon, if you have not seen the Moon,  but I don't want a telescope just for  the Moon. This one also has a permanent lens  feature (A type of  Barlow ) buried inside the focuser ( Jones-Bird ? )Avoid if you can.

Not sure if the 130 your suggesting  is any better ( IMHO probably not )  but the suggestion that you look into a  Skyliner 150P ( excuse the pun) is a good'un!

For me, its probably the least amount of aperture you would need for visual use only,  against photographic usage.

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Mak the Night, that Explorer 130 apart form the length of the telescope tube, is in most  respects the same, as the  127EQ Powerseeker.

Two  very similar scopes,  but very different personal views here, but that's what a forum is all about?

If mickey200 was closer he could have my Celestron for nowt, that's the value I would put on my Celestron?

Have a look at the Moon, and see what else is up there? I have seen Jupiter with it, but in such poor detail that night, but one thing it will teach is Polar alignment, and  the constant setting and re-setting whilst using the telescope when observing? keep it simple with a Dobsonian type mount.

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The Celestron 130 Newtonian that you are considering is not a bad telescope at all for the aperture. For me what lets it down are the cheap eyepieces which you will probably want to upgrade pretty fast, and a weak somewhat shakey mount. Putting a cheapo motor on this isn't exactly the way to go either. It's certainly a package that will get you going, but one which won't give you satisfaction for very long, and by no means a good entre into astrophotography. Quite often there's a siginificant difference on Celestron's official prices and actual retail; I suspect more of a marketing ploy than a super offer.

At under 200 pounds, I'd go with the Dobsonian 150 that others have suggested.

Don't worry too much about light polution - sure, it is a problem for many amateur astronomers, but there is a surprising amount that you can learn and enjoy from urban sites.

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+I for the Dob. You will find it much quicker to set up and much easier to use. The optics are almost certainly better and you will get much better , brighter views. Also it is a good idea to deal with an established supplier such as FLO. You will get a much better after sales service.

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Mak the Night, that Explorer 130 apart form the length of the telescope tube, is in most  respects the same, as the  127EQ Powerseeker.

I don't know, I doubt it. My Explorer 130 is superb for the money. Admittedly I've never used the Sky-Watcher giveaway EP's with it, but I saw Jupiter's Great Red Spot, the Cassini Division in Saturn's Rings and the phase of Venus quite distinctly with my Explorer 130. The mount isn't too bad. I can't use Dobsonians so I can't really comment on them. They probably have stable mounts though. The 130 Explorer has a metre long OTA because of its spherical mirror. Under 150mm its spherical primary produces no noticeable difference in image quality to a parabolic mirror. For the money, IMO, you can't go wrong with the Explorer.

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To my knowledge the Explorer 130 isn't a bird-jones design. The 130p certainly isn't. The EQ2 mount is ok for starters if you take a few minutes to balance the scope and don't extend the legs fully. There are benefits and drawbacks to each type of mount, especially cheap ones, and strong personal preferences!! I can't comment on the Skyliner 150P, but it is very highly recommended on this forum. I can say it's the biggest telescope and stablest mount that you'll get for your budget.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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To my knowledge the Explorer 130 isn't a bird-jones design. The 130p certainly isn't. The EQ2 mount is ok for starters if you take a few minutes to balance the scope and don't extend the legs fully. There are benefits and drawbacks to each type of mount, especially cheap ones, and strong personal preferences!! I can't comment on the Skyliner 150P, but it is very highly recommended on this forum. I can say it's the biggest telescope and stablest mount that you'll get for your budget.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think EQ mounts can be hard work to set up. The EQ2 on the Explorer 130 just about does the job although an EQ3 would probably be far better but it probably makes the overall retail price less competitive. Obviously the bigger the aperture the better, I was just thinking that the SW Explorer was the better buy than the AstroMaster in the same category. My personal preference is for Mak's or SCT's, preferably with alt az mounts lol.

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I think EQ mounts can be hard work to set up. The EQ2 on the Explorer 130 just about does the job although an EQ3 would probably be far better but it probably makes the overall retail price less competitive. Obviously the bigger the aperture the better, I was just thinking that the SW Explorer was the better buy than the AstroMaster in the same category. My personal preference is for Mak's or SCT's, preferably with alt az mounts lol.

I'm a Mak fan too, but prefer EQ mounts. That probably makes me a little odd..... :shocked:

Sorry OP! Back to your new scope.

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When I first bought a scope I wanted something that was robust and upgradable. I went for a medium sized refractor on a EQ5 mount. Both telescope and mount were (and are still) excellent. I had a preference for equatorial mounts because I wanted to piggyback cameras and one day get into full prime focus astrophotography (something I now do).

I did a lot of research before-hand about how to polar align an eq mount and found that in reality it was not very difficult (but cannot be rushed) and gets easier with practice. I would say that if you do go for an eq mount, go for something sturdy (EQ3/EQ5) and be prepared to polar align, also don't expect that setting up an eq mount will work straight away!. I would start looking at the second hand market (astro buy and sell for example) - you may find stuff just in your price range (probably non-motorised) but you can alway upgrade these mounts later.

That't my opinion, but you cannot ignore the fact that the Dobsonian telescope is highly recommended here - it will start rewarding you with good views much much faster than an eq mounted scope will.

Hope that helps  :smiley:  :smiley:

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Thanks for all the replies!  I've just turned on email alerts for new replies....

I'm certainly put off the celestron - the deal and scope maybe not as good as I first thought.  Also, I'd never heard of FLO before - I think they are now my chosen supplier!

About Dobsonians - I'm slightly puzzled.  The ads never show a tripod.  Do you just place them on the floor?   Also, how do you track?  I thought I'd need an EQ mount for that sort of thing.

With that in mind, the Skywatcher Explorer 130P EQ2 might be just what I'm after - It's  £165 at FLO and the motor add on is another £62.   I can't see a piggy back mount to attach a camera in parallel to the scope but I think I could use the tripod/mount without the scope and use it as a tracking mount for photos with my normal camera lenses.  Maybe I could one day get T adapters for my camera to use the telescope as a lens too. (I think t adapters are pretty generic?)

Thanks again!

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Dobsonians are placed on the ground, or table if small and are not generally used for Astro Photography.

You can easily use a decent EQ mount with a camera and lenses. I have a spare dovetail with a 3/8" bolt for a ball head for just that purpose. But unless good Polar alignment is performed then only short exposures are sensible, and IIRC an EQ2 mount has no real method for aligning.

With an EQ2 mount and 130P I think that you will find it too light weight to also add in a DSLR although a webcam for planetary and lunar images should work.

For your global budget I would look at S/H 150P on EQ3-2 even without motors Jupiter and the Moon are possible with a webcam. Then if the bug bites you can motorize in the future.

PS, the piggy back, is with the screw on top of the tube ring, look at the advert pic from FLO above.

Best of luck,

Rich

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One thing to remember when buying any scope and mount; there is no perfect or best starter scope. All have their strengths and weaknesses, so if you do get bitten by the bug then you will no doubt upgrade both scope and mount at some point in the future, along with any eyepieces, diagonals, filters, Barlow lens etc to make up for any of these weaknesses. Because of this I wouldn't spend a whole heap of money on any first scope just in case you find that astronomy is not for you. Set an upper limit on your budget and stick to it, and then get outside and enjoy using whatever scope you eventually decide on. The main thing is to use the scope, and not let it just sit in the corner of any room just gathering dust.

About 8 years ago I had a really good 8 inch GoTo telescope, but hardly ever used it and didn't enjoy the views through it. This was mainly because it took so long to get it set up and the thing working correctly that it was very exasperating. Now I have a ST120 refractor, on a light AZ3 stand which I can have up and running in less than 5 mins, and am enjoying every view I get through the scope. And this scope and mount cost less than a third I paid for the GoTo scope!

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Buying a first scope is very difficult. We start off with loads of theories of what we want and no real knowledge and if like me end going round in circles and eventually making a choice. 

Only after some experience using our first scope do we know if the right choice was made.

Reading the OP carefully you seem to have realistic expectations which is all to the good, too many budding astronomers are disappointed because they fail here.

If I was starting again I wouldn't be buying my current set up, an equatorial mount is too complex and fiddly to use for visual use. It's a different matter for astro photography but you wouldn't chose an entry level mount for this branch of the hobby.

The above isn't really answering your question but trying to tell it like it is.

I am in full agreement with the posters above who are trying to point you towards a Dobsonian mounted scope.

BTW a Dobsonian scope refers to the mount not the optical tube and is probably the simplest mount available.

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To be honest I don't know exactly how flimsy the EQ2 mount is as mine hasn't arrived yet (I've ordered the Skywatcher Explorer 130p with EQ2 and motor, chosen after about a week of research and haven't found a bad word about it, only praise.) but there are ways to improve stability that are fairly easy. 

1. Don't over extend the legs, keep them short and use a spirit to level it. 

This is a spirit

25cm_spirit_level_24_8.jpg

2. Add weight below, hanging a weight in the middle below the tripod. Used in photography to keep tripods stable even on uneven ground (some designs even have a hook for it). 

What these two steps does are lowering the center of mass, the first step also makes the legs sturdier and the second step  adds a bit of weight making it more stable. 

3. Tighten all slack as much as possible, make sure there is as little give as possible, there are multiple guides on how to do this on youtube etc

4. For EQ mounts there is a trick of adding a little bit of bias to east or west depending on location to also help minimize backlash in the gears when using motors. 


It is true the EQ2 mount and tripod that you get with the 130 model is at it's limit and a sturdier mount from the start is always better but there are ways to improve it is all I'm saying. From what I've read it seems much like collimation, many new users avoid doing anything out of the bare minimum to fix and set up their gear. New users are often intimidated and/or too eager to get started to to things right (read, read, read and read like they should) and entry level equipment is often (no matter what area it applies to) more in need of doing things right than higher end and more expensive gear. More professional gear often have shortcuts or is so good there can be a bit of offset with the equipment compensating, while the more experienced users generally are less intimidated and more focused on doing it right. 

Yes, setting up the EQ "perfectly" is a hassle but if you do it right it gets easier the next time and so on and while a perfect setup EQ2 will not perform as good as a perfect setup EQ5 it will probably be less of a gap in performance than if you setup both mounts a little "off" since the EQ5 probably on its own delivers much better compensation. 

When you've setup you scope a thousand times right and worked out all tricks that work for you and you are sure that it's the equipment that is limiting you and not your skill, then it's time to upgrade and by that point you will know where the problems are etc. Greater aperture will of course give you more light which in turn gives you better images, a better camera (which is probably even more important in many cases) will also give better images, a sturdier mount with full goto, digital compensation etc will of course give you more exposure time without trails but nothing of that can replace skill, which you get from hours and hours of practice and experimenting. Also note that aperture, camera and mount don't do much unless you actually also take the time to find clear skies. No aperture can pierce a sky full of clouds, no camera can compensate for a streetlight right above your scope and no mount will help if you don't know what you are doing (well some really high end will to a degree but you get my point). 

From what I've read and from the people I've talked to I've gathered that the Skywatcher Explorer 130p is a extremely good scope, not just for the price-range but in general and portable which many larger scopes aren't which means you can actually go and find those clear skies. Taking a dob, specially a bigger one with you isn't really an easy thing to do so while they might give you a better view in your light polluted garden you will most likely beat it when you grab your 130p and just go a few miles outside of town on a clear night, go camping or meet up with your local astronomy club. True a dob is easier to setup and there for has a much easier learning curve but you also miss out on a very basic part of this hobby, much like getting a GOTO scope as your entry you will more or less just watch gray smudges in a lens, not really learn anything and move on. I do understand the more experienced users recommending dobs, as many new users struggle with setup only to be disappointed that they can't read the NASA logo on the Mars rovers and dobs do give a bit more view for the buck but in reality I believe this is doing new users a disfavor. True that some will always be disappointed, people today have unrealistic expectations (not just in this area and I blame the internet and movies :p) but actually finding information about what to expect is really hard, took me almost a week to find a site that even tried to show what to expect of different scopes. All new users see are magical astrophotography, some with hours, even days of exposure and months of fixing in different programs but the explanation of the reality is few and far between. 

The question is: 

What will I see?


The answer I've seen most often is: 

Bla bla bla it depends, get a bigger aperture, get this, get that, astrophotography, get a better mount, here is a pic (not telling it's a 8 hour stacked exposure with 15 hours of post). 


The answer should be: 

Well the moon will look more or less like the pictures, the planets will be small, grayish often, fuzzy most of the time (that is if you can see them) and stars, stars upon stars upon stars like small specs of light just as if you look up with only your eyes, but many, many more and if you are lucky maybe a grayish nebula smeared over your lens. 


This might seem off-putting but in reality it's not, the view is something else but you have to know what to expect and also see the reason for astrophotography and understand what this hobby really is, it's not watching the latest graphical simulation on Discovery Space or discovering a new planet where you can settle on when you retire. :p

Sorry I've go on ranting a bit but  like said above, getting your first scope is hard since you don't know what you will need for your interest (if you even really have one) and a scope that's just right for person A might not be right for Person B for a million reasons. A 130 scope seems to fit most uses, portable, possibility to see most things, astrophotography etc, a 150 works as well but the price point jumps up a fair bit and they seem to be a bit big for most people to carry around to much. It's the "Jack of all trades, Master of none" type of deal which makes it possible for you to actually find what you really want out of a scope. 

I'm not even sure I've said anything of value, might just be a fever delirium but anyways if you're a first timer the my recommendation, read, read everything you can find about aperture, the workings of the eye, lenses, focal length etc specially if you don't have the knowledge from before (like if you're a active amateur photographer) and watch youtube, there are tons of good information (and bad) on there. 

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My Explorer 130 has shown superb views of the planets, some Messiers and the Moon. The trick is to get some quality eyepieces for it. The EQ2 mount is pretty stable as the OTA isn't particularly heavy and I should imagine the 650mm f/l OTA is even lighter. Many told me that a 4" Mak would be about as good as using a Smarties tube with lenses made out of boiled sweets. I live in the greenbelt. On a good night in the summer I can see the M4 globular cluster with the naked eye. I've told city dwellers this and I'm sure they don't believe me lol. As always, YMMV. I've found my mini Mak to be a very capable little scope. OK, I will admit to spending a lot on eyepieces, but it does make the difference. A reflecting telescope is mirrors in a tube. The eyepieces and seeing conditions make all the difference. I guess my point is, there's nothing wrong with the 130 Explorer and it is a perfectly good scope. All things being equal, even with the supplied eyepieces, you won't be disappointed.

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Apologies for getting the 130p price wrong, I was looking at the 130/900, but the the dob is still amazing value!  Equatorial mounts ( and I have two) take a little bit of working out at first, but once you have mastered the equatorial "dance" the ability to track objects with a tweak of the slomo knobs is very good. The real issue for the cheaper EQ2 mounts is not the EQ action but its stability. My old Celestron 130EQ really wobbled a lot at first - but was better once I'd "played" with it  touch. The battery driven motor drive (and I suspect the SW item could be similar)  was used once and is still in the draw where I left it 4 years ago. My Tal 1 equatorial mount by contrast is a piece of Russian heavy engineering, simple but supremely stable and a joy to use.

The Dobsonian (Alt/Az) mount systems big thing is its stability and simplicity, no it does not have the EQ tracking bonus, but its much more intuitive to use. The 150P at F8  will almost certainly be better optically too.

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Hi original poster I noticed you live in leighton buzzard and I believe that is not far from tring I believe there is a company called tring astronomy centre they may be able to give you some advice and you can look at some kit in the flesh. I know they have a website so that can be used to see if they are competitive. One piece of advice often seen on this site is go along to a local astronomy club star party.

Many people here have favourite scopes and mounts and astronomy is in many ways a very personal hobby with preferences of5en being guided by different aspects of the hobby lunar and solar, planets and deep space. These three sectors are often served by different styles of scopes. In many ways a good introduction is a Refractor on a conventional tripod as it is quick and easy to set up. I have both an EQ mounted Reflector and an Alt Az Refractor scope. We use both as a family but the best advice is try and find something in your price range and the easier it is to set up will hopefully mean your enthusiasim will be maintained.

it is why we have a refractor on a basic tripod mount so we do not waste half an hour whilst waiting for our scope to reach the right temperature.

I hope this helps, sorry for the long post.

Geoff

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I started with a small dob this year and would just add that under light polluted skies I have sometimes struggled locating things. A good book such as Turn left at Orion is essential. I also found the basic version of Skysafari for the ipad to be useful in planning where things will be.

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