Dark Site Vote?

[Patbloke]

OK I've found myself a dark site on a farm... Farmer is OK if I go there at night! (I don't do solar so not much need during the day (also you can do that anywhere the sun is out I would imagine)

Here's the question... Would I pay him to use his field if he suddenly asked me? Seeing as this has been my single most frustrating blocker to observing (finding a dark site) I reckon I probably would. I live in 24 hour daylight in a first floor flat south Birmingham :-)

I'm not planning to buy his farm on the strength of this thread response... I've tried to do a poll not sure if it will appear on posting this??

[John]

I'd not pay personally although your poll is titled "Would you past to use a dark site" which is a little confusing

I've edited the title of the poll for you. That will be £5.00 please

[Knighty2112]

There is a site about an hour away from me which supposedly has good dark skies. As it is a nature reserve popular with bird watchers, you need to join the 'club' and pay a fee to use the site. If this were a fee just to pay when you visit it I might use it occasionally, but as you need to pay a monthly fee then I seriously doubt I ever will.

[DanL]

Don't forget to buy the farmer a bottle of whiskey for xmas as a good-will gesture of thanks 

If you don't give him any cause for concern and he gets something out of it then I can't see why he would even consider starting to charge, but if he did then I guess it's a very subjective thing. After spending '000s on fancy astro equipment, how much are you prepared to pay to get the views you desire...

[scarp15]

Don't forget to buy the farmer a bottle of whiskey for xmas as a good-will gesture of thanks 

As an individual with perhaps occasional opportunities to use this site then yes probably a good idea to keep it informal, payment in kind perhaps. 

[laudropb]

I don't think I would pay, but then I have a few dark sites nearby which I can use free of charge.

[redstamp]

Patbloke,

If he did try and charge you, then I would remind him, in your haughtiest tone that you are probably "already funding his lavish lifestyle with your taxes funding his subsides and your mobile phone line rental funding the coverage mast lease in his top field"...

.... then again, unless you like the sting of buckshot in the morning - just find another site

Jon (enjoying the SCT )

[FenlandPaul]

I think it's unlikely that he'd take the step of charging you. If he does, it probably creates an increased duty of care on his part and if you slipped on uneven ground or, say, were charged by a wayward bull it would leave him rather open to a claim. Now he might still in theory have that duty of care simply by allowing you onto his land, but it's far more likely to be a "sensible", mutually-understood situation if it's a gentlemen's agreement, greased with the occasional view through the scope or bottle of something at Christmas, than if cold hard cash is changing hands.

I would pay a small sum to use a site if it were used by other astronomers; it would be nice to share evenings with fellow stargazers now and then. I've also considered, one day, asking my local parish council to lease me a small slab of land at the local allotments to build an observatory. Not sure if that counts, but it is decently dark and very convenient.

Paul

[acey]

I do pay to use a dark site - the round trip costs me over a fiver in petrol. Some people pay for caravans or holiday cottages in dark places. As to paying a farmer so I can enter their field - I wouldn't do it if I were taking a walk in daytime, nor would I do it if the sun happened to be below horizon. If the OP's farmer is a sane and rational human being, as most farmers are, then the OP will never be asked for payment. He'll just be expected to behave sensibly and treat the location with due respect.

[DanL]

It hasn't been mentioned and might be covered, but probably worth getting the permission in writing. Just in case you get accused of trespass by a concerned local or a passing police patrol.

[Jimtom]

I'm a farmer, well, semi-retired now, kids are doing all the work   . I'd certainly never dream of charging any-one to use my fields for astronomic use but on the other hand there has to be an amount of trust between the land owner and the observer. I'd make sure you ...

• Let the farmer know when you're intending to use the site. There's an awful lot of rural crime ATM like rustling and petty theft of fuel and machinery. Keep your eyes open [ha ha, yes, silly thing to say to an astronomer!] and report suspicious things on the ground. [forget the ufos:)] 
• Never leave any evidence that you've been on site; obvious I know but worth remembering every time you leave the site.
• Leave gates as you find them! Do not automatically shut all gates, they may be open for a purpose i.e. to let stock get to water. You must use common sense here, if the gate's open onto a road and there's animals inside etc..
• Give the farmer a bottle of whiskey at Christmas and some chocs for his Mrs. I like Irish, ta! 

You might consider inviting the farmer up to use your gear when you're set up and end up with another convert! Same thing happened to me last year with model r/c airplanes, nearly ended up buying one but a 6" SCT was more important 

[bomberbaz]

I have used the Todmorden observtory site a few times and given them a small donation each time, I didnt mind as they are very helpful chaps and most obliging. Thing is, I could have paid 2 years membership for the cost of donations given   

Steve

[knobby]

All good advice, find out if he's a beer / whisky/ whiskey / wine man and treat him at Christmas

[dick_dangerous]

There's always somewhere nearby that's free, even on a public footpath. Even security-wise there's nothing to say it's safer.

Although now I'm worried I should have paid to use the car park at Kynance Cove in April...

Paul

[dick_dangerous]

I'm a farmer, well, semi-retired now, kids are doing all the work . I'd certainly never dream of charging any-one to use my fields for astronomic use but on the other hand there has to be an amount of trust between the land owner and the observer. I'd make sure you ...

• Let the farmer know when you're intending to use the site. There's an awful lot of rural crime ATM like rustling and petty theft of fuel and machinery. Keep your eyes open [ha ha, yes, silly thing to say to an astronomer!] and report suspicious things on the ground. [forget the ufos:)]
• Never leave any evidence that you've been on site; obvious I know but worth remembering every time you leave the site.
• Leave gates as you find them! Do not automatically shut all gates, they may be open for a purpose i.e. to let stock get to water. You must use common sense here, if the gate's open onto a road and there's animals inside etc..
• Give the farmer a bottle of whiskey at Christmas and some chocs for his Mrs. I like Irish, ta!

You might consider inviting the farmer up to use your gear when you're set up and end up with another convert! Same thing happened to me last year with model r/c airplanes, nearly ended up buying one but a 6" SCT was more important

A lot of wisdom here - having an astronomer visit is an extra pair of eyes for security. And if I had land and people were willing to offer me whiskey to use it for a hobby, I'd be willing to let them do most things! Only seems fair if someone's letting you set-up in their field!

Paul

[laser_jock99]

Even if you own a dark sky site- it isn't necessarily free. Cost in the petrol and other costs of ownership then paying someone a few quid to use their land to observe legally and safely could be a positive bargin.

[Patbloke]

Great replies, and it appears the vote thing works :-)

The farmer was great when I asked if I could rock up near the cow sheds and set up my gear... What I like about the location is it feels safe.

However, it can be as dark as a dark thing but nothing is getting done with this rubbish weather!!

[bingevader]

I have a dark site near me that I keep threatening to venture out to.

It's the blooming awful weather that's getting in the way.

It's farm property, but used for parking access to a local beach.

There's an honest box which we always pay into when we've parked there to get to the beach.

If I were to use it for observing, I'd do the same.

[PeterW]

... Well I pay when I go to a starparty... But I don't have such a need for very dark skies, so less willing to pay... Unless the sky is very transparent.

Peter

[rockystar]

I'd pay, if I knew there were going to be other astronomers there and it was safe and easy to set, and if they provided tea and biscuits.

Maybe the nightly fee could pay for some security to ensure it was safe (assuming enough people).

[Interstellarshaw88]

I personally wouldn't pay for a dark site unless like the above comment that it's going to be some sort of group outing and can learn and chat to fellow astronomers.

But for just a dark field on my own i personally don't think it would be any safer then a public place with the expensive gear.

And some of us like me have to pay £5-10 in fuel just to get to a site so I think it would just put me off tbh.

[RichM63]

Payment could create all sorts of legal stuff, land rental, insurance, invoices, tax etc etc. A proper thank you would do the trick for me if someone wanted to setup in the field or orchard etc.

Plus if you are near the farm itself you are also giving extra night security to the farmer.  

[PeterW]

I'd pay, if I knew there were going to be other astronomers there and it was safe and easy to set, and if they provided tea and biscuits.Maybe the nightly fee could pay for some security to ensure it was safe (assuming enough people).

Sounds like you need to get to a starparty... Other astronomers, safe and easy, tea and biscuits

Cheers

Peter