Considering upgrading to guided setup

[ianpwilliams]

Some of you will be aware that I did some basic, unguided imaging last winter using my HEQ5 Pro and Skywatcher 130PDS.  I had some success with it, but then put it on hold as the Scottish summer days started to kick in. Now the days are getting shorter I'm considering getting back out there. But I feel like I've run out of targets using an unguided setup. So I'm considering trying to upgrade to guided.

However, there are three hurdles:

1 - I'm on the second floor so I have to carry my equipment up and down, which isn't too bad unguided as it's two trips, which I'm guessing would become three if guided

2 - Whereas I used to have concrete slabs in the shared garden with markers for the legs I no longer have this, so I would have to start from scratch each time. This might only add 20 minutes or so to the setup time (getting the mount level, pointing the polar scope to Polaris etc), but then there will be more time to allow for the guided element

3 - Up until now I've not been using the laptop at all (I've been using the SynScan), and with guided it sounds certain that I'll have to use my laptop instead

I believe that I would need a finderguider setup, something like this from Astro:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=103894

So I suppose my main questions are:

1 - If I bought the above from Astro then would that be everything I need to upgrade to guided?

2 - Is it feasible to do guided imaging when setting up manually each time (I can't have a permanent setup in a shared garden)? I'm guessing I would have to devote the entire evening to it, and it would most likely be three trips down the stairs, and three back up again

3 - Regarding power, assuming that my laptop battery held out for the evening (I get the impression that the various astronomy programs are not power hungry), could I use my 22Ah Tracer battery to power both the mount and the guide cam (I guess I would need some kind of splitter)?

4 - When it comes to the various astronomy programs, would I be best trying to learn them indoors one by one, or outside, either one by one or all at once?

[Davey-T]

QHY camera is ok but not a fan of it mounted on one of those wobbly brackets, PHD is good for guiding, what are the people you share the garden like, would you be allowed to build a permanent pier? I once saw a pier disguised as a sundial by someone whose other half thought it spoiled the look of the garden, they just took off the sundial top and bolted on the mount.

You could use a tablet and stick it in your pocket

Dave

[nmoushon]

I will address your concerns by the number, will be easier to keep track.

1.) You should be able to put everything you needed in a backpack and take it down with one of your trips. 

2.) Yes you are correct. The first couple nights will be longer as you get use to setting up the extra stuff and getting use to the new programs (which arent hard btw)

3.) Yes you will need a laptop. But you can run the mount through the hand controller instead of the laptop if that's what you like. Thats what I did. And just use it for guiding...and stellarium. 

4.) The link you posted is what you will need and is pretty much what I used and was able to achieve an easy 15min with my ED80. Though I used the newer QHY-II. Dave's worries able the wobbly bracket are justified but I think a bit over blown. I never had any problems with mine and guiding was easy. I was also imaging at 350mm so if it was any longer than maybe you would notice the guiding errors. 

5.) Besides the PC programs and installs yes. And laptop of course, which you already have.

6.) I had to setup and take down every night I imaged when I was imaging for 2.5 years. I have since quit but for other reasons. Once you get use to the setup you get pretty fast at it. Though I can see it getting very annoying after a while....which it did for me. 

7.) My battery would run my mount and laptop for a good 6-8hrs. So for 1 night you should be fine. But will need a recharge for a second. Unless you have a deep cycle but I didnt. Oh and the laptop runs the programs and the camera to the battery will drain a bit faster. But switch to power save mode and other power saving tricks and youll be fine.

8.) The only program you need to guide is PHD. There are others that can run the camera and guide but PHD is the minimum. Its a very easy program. I would make sure you have it installed and will connect with your guide cam before you take it outside. Once you have that then you can take it outside and plaay with to get the setting and guide times right. It will take a night or two to find the sweet spot for your equipment. But after that its a breeze as all the setting are saved. 

[ianpwilliams]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm now wondering if it might be worth picking up a tablet (which I was considering doing anyway) and running the various programs from that. Mainly because with a laptop I guess I would have to sit down with it on my lap, whereas with a tablet I could maybe use it standing up. I take it some people use a tablet, and that there are tablet versions of the various programs? Either way I'd prefer to use the laptop or tablet for everything, and forget about SynScan ideally.

As for the sundial thing, it's an interesting idea. My back garden faces slightly left of west, so if I'm a few feet away from the house then I can see Polaris, and there is some concrete before the garden grass starts, so maybe I could put something there. It would mean that everything to the east would be blocked, but all the good targets seem to be south and west anyway.

[Davey-T]

There have been a few threads on using tablets if you do a search.

Dave

[ianpwilliams]

Ok will do

[ianpwilliams]

So should I buy the finder guider setup do you think? Would it work ok with my 130PDS? I'm assuming it's a finder converted to a finderguider, and therefore when doing 1-star alignment etc I would be forced to use software to centre the star, as I wouldn't be able to look through the finder?

[nmoushon]

So should I buy the finder guider setup do you think? Would it work ok with my 130PDS? I'm assuming it's a finder converted to a finderguider, and therefore when doing 1-star alignment etc I would be forced to use software to centre the star, as I wouldn't be able to look through the finder?

It would work. Though I think that price seems a bit steep to me. Especially with the older camera. 

You would be forced to use the software or you just buy a second finder (Or telrad) and swap them out. You will want to three star align before you align the guide star anyways. There are bases you can buy that will allow you to mount two finder scopes side-by-side as well. 

[ianpwilliams]

Ok maybe I'll hold off on buying that.

I only use the finder to centre the guide star during 1-star alignment, so I could just do that using the laptop instead. I could try to have a setup with a finder and a guider, but then wouldn't that cause more work due to having to ensure that both the finder and guider were aligned to each other and the scope? Also I've had an issue with my finder since the beginning where I've had to put a small piece of cardboard in to make it straight. It's worked do far but I'd be happy to replace it, either with a finder guider or a dual setup.

As for the star alignment I've always been told that it was 1-star for imaging, and 1-star and 3-star for visual. Is that wrong?

[Davey-T]

If I'm imaging I just sync on a bright star in the imaging area, calibrate guiding (not on the bright star)  and goto the target .

Dave

[StargeezerTim]

Hi there,

An alternative would be to go down the autoguider route (MGEN, Synguider etc). I don't use a laptop at all and it makes setting up easier and quicker I would imagine. Works well for me. Tim. 

[ianpwilliams]

Now there's an idea. I really like the look of that Synguider from FLO, and I really really like the idea of guided imaging without having to use a laptop, what with having to set up every time. I'm going to have to research this and seriously consider buying one.

[ianpwilliams]

I'm guessing that it doesn't matter if I buy new or preowned? The Synguider is £209 new on FLO, but there's a preowned one on Astro for £140.

[Davey-T]

Astronomy shed video here

Dave

[ianpwilliams]

Thanks, seems to have its faults, but still recommend despite the faults.

I wonder if I should just buy that preowned one, and maybe an ST80 to connect it to? If I did that then I guess I'd have to make sure that the scope eyepiece, finder, and ST80 were all aligned to each other? And I'm guessing there would be a way of attaching the ST80 to the OTA of the 130PDS?

[A40farinagolf]

Thanks for the info - I'm also looking into guiding options at the moment and the Synguider video has put me off going down that route.

What is MGEN mentioned by Stargeezer Tim in thread #11

[ianpwilliams]

A google search suggests that the MGEN is a higher spec auto guider, at around £485.

[Stub Mandrel]

I once saw a pier disguised as a sundial by someone whose other half thought it spoiled the look of the garden, they just took off the sundial top and bolted on the mount.

Be careful what you promise - I've idly suggested this idea (without mentioning the mount bit) and now I get periodic  nags about 'weren't you going to make a sundial/birdbath etc...'

[ianpwilliams]

I'm reading up a bit on the Synguider (which I'm very tempted to go for), and some people recommend using it with a 9x50 rather than the ST80 because of the wider FOV which makes it easier to find a guide star. Not to mention that a 9x50 is £40 cheaper than the ST80:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/skywatcher-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html

Could I have one of these (separate from my finder) with the Synguider running with it?

[ianpwilliams]

FLO said that the 9x50 would need an adaptor, so it's looking like it'll have to be the ST80.

[DanL]

Modern Astronomy sell a range of adapters to fit guide cameras to a finder scope. They cost £30-40 depending on the adapter and work well so consider that option before ruling it out altogether. [emoji4]

[Purplehayze104]

Hi There

I went the 9x50 route bought the adapter from modern astronomy along with the QHY5L-II (reduced price at mo on there) an can say that i've not had a problem with it, always manage to get a guide star its quite a sensitive camera for the price.

regards

john

[ianpwilliams]

Modern Astronomy sell a range of adapters to fit guide cameras to a finder scope. They cost £30-40 depending on the adapter and work well so consider that option before ruling it out altogether. [emoji4]

Yes maybe that is an option. I'm guessing that the 9x50 would be lighter than the ST80, which would make the whole setup a bit lighter. And it looks like it would work out about the same price for a 9x50 + adaptor and for an ST80. I'll enquire with Modern Astronomy about adaptors, and consider going for a 9x50 from FLO.

As for the QHY5L-II, as far as I can tell I would need to use a laptop with that, and an autoguider seems like the way to go for someone like me who has to set up every time.

[ianpwilliams]

It looks like the 9x50 is definitely the better option based on various SGL threads, mainly due to the lighter weight. But one thread here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/251588-9x50-finderguider-or-st80-guidescope/

suggests that I might also need to buy this:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/baader-mqr-iv-finder-holder.html

Will that be required do you think?

And should I go for the straight-through or right-angled 9x50 (which I believe might require different adaptors)? I thought I read something about how a right-angle one is better because the Synguider could end up in some pretty awkward positions. If I had the right-angle finder then do you think I rotate it so that the Synguider screen was more accessible?

[ianpwilliams]

So I'm looking at something like this:

Preowned Synguider

Right-angled 9x50 - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/skywatcher-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html

Adaptor - http://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/accessories/adapters/sky-watcher-clones-to-t-thread-adapter-for-right-angled-finders/

and possibly this:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/baader-mqr-iv-finder-holder.html

Although this may have to wait because it'll be a big investment as it is, especially as I'll need to buy a Pixinsight licence.