Meade ownership and manufacture

[John]

The topic of who owns and makes Meade eyepieces has come up recently in a number of threads, often linked in with discussions on Explore Scientific, Maxvision and Bresser eyepieces.

I picked up the following snippet of information from another forum. It's 3rd hand but there might be something in it as it seems to originate from what is considered a reliable source:

"Jinghua now  owns the Meade and Bresser brands in Europe (Meade Europe is now a subsidiary of JOC). Jinghua also tried to buy Meade US (making Meade a JOC brand all over the world, obviously ensuring the eyepieces would remain JOC eyepieces, but was outbid by a Chinese competitor.

So the "Meade 5000 UWA" in Europe is a Jinghua eyepiece (a rebranding of the Explore Scientific) but the "Meade 5000 UWA" in the United States is another eyepiece that looks the same but is reportedly being made by Kunming United Optics, the manufacturer of the other Nagler competitor also known as the William Optics UWAN.

Celestron --owned by Shuzou Synta, which also makes eyepieces-- used to also sell JOC UWAs, and also switched manufacturers (they were no doubt just as displeased as Meade at being undercut by the manufacturer), but at least they renamed the line from "Axiom LX" to "Luminos"."

JOC = Jinghua Optical Corporation

if the above is accurate it seems even more complex than I originally thought with Meade (Europe) being apparently under different ownership from Meade (USA) now and both seemingly using different manufacturers to make the same product ranges

It also possibly sheds a little light on the reasons behind Celestrons renaming of their Axiom LX line.

Of course it could be inaccurate information as well so should be taken with the appropriate "pinch of salt".

[alan potts]

John,

That is how I understand it from my friend and Meade dealer in Sofia. It sort of reminds me of the US sent-up program Soap! A classic if there ever was one.

Alan

[F15Rules]

Whatever the truth of it, all roads seem to lead to China then...

Dave

[JamesF]

John,

That is how I understand it from my friend and Meade dealer in Sofia. It sort of reminds me of the US sent-up program Soap! A classic if there ever was one.

Alan

Confused?  You will be, after the next episode

James

[Dave In Vermont]

"Soap?" I disagree! More like "Mary Hartman! Mary Hartman!" "Soap" is much too tame as a similie for this mess.

What will be next? McDonald's will be bought-out by Norinco? TeleVue bought by StarKist Tuna (Sorry, Charlie - but we always fish with Cyanide!)? I guess I'll just be glad I bought in before this all went South.

Think I'll have a jar of Gerber's Baby Food (Bought by DeCon Rat-Poison) and get some sleep -

Dave

[Mr Spock]

Very confusing indeed. Best just stick with Televue

[mcolbert]

Whatever the truth of it, all roads seem to lead to China then...

Dave

the new silk road

michael

[bingevader]

It's a bit like Vdubs saying "Made in Germany", when some of them come from Brazil!

It was probably inevitable considering the mess Meade have been in.

"Soap?" I disagree! More like "Mary Hartman! Mary Hartman!" "Soap" is much too tame as a similie for this mess.

What will be next? McDonald's will be bought-out by Norinco? TeleVue bought by StarKist Tuna (Sorry, Charlie - but we always fish with Cyanide!)? I guess I'll just be glad I bought in before this all went South.

Think I'll have a jar of Gerber's Baby Food (Bought by DeCon Rat-Poison) and get some sleep - Dave

Maybe stretching it a bit too far there Dave!

They are all still made by companies that specialise in optics, it's not as if they really are being made in a bake bean factory.

But, sadly, I know I'll upset the purists, whilst the quality matches the price tag, I'm very happy.

[Dave In Vermont]

I received an ad in my email-box from one of our largest astronomy shops in the US. It was selling the new models from Meade - the LX70 line. These being non-go-to on a decent eq. mount. One of them especially caught my eye: a 5" achromatic refractor at F/8.3. I have an older 5" F/9.3 achromatic that was sold on a go-to eq. mount, the AR5. My 5" is a very nice scope - quite capable of providing beautiful views of planets and comets. But when I studied this ad, something else caught my eye.....

The scope proclaimed it was 5-inch in the banner-ad. But reading the narrative, it said it was 4.7-inches. So it seems to be either 127mm and 119.38mm. I wrote the retailer asking which was it? I told them in my missive that I'll report their reply on an astronomy-forum based out of the UK, but international in it's membership. I guess they read their incoming email quite quickly, as I got the following within 12 hours:

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"The Meade information we received listed it as a 5”. We caught that and changed it in part of our website but the person who made the change missed changing all references. We will take him out back and flog him so this won’t happen again! We here in the “Colonies” are still trying to get things right!!

I wish we could sell their products overseas but since they have dealers there so we cannot.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

 Clear Skies,
Pete/astronomics"

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I thought this might be amusing - unless I was planning to purchase a new frac. - which I am not. So whoever owns Meade and writes their ad-copy seems to have goofed. It would be nice if it was actually an apochromatic for a few pence under $600.

Off to learn Mandarin,

Dave

[John]

Looks like Meade are using Synta to produce some of their scopes now then. That scope looks a clone of the Skywatcher Evostar 120 in all but the colour scheme. The white is nice but I'm not sure about the blue highlights

In fact the whole LX70 line up look very much like Skywatcher clones !:

http://www.meade.com/products/telescopes/lx70-series.html

[Charic]

The likes of my BST Starguiders are very competitive, sold and manufactured under different brands, and stem from, I believe, the original Astrotech Paradigm eyepiece. With all this going on, do you know really what you your buying?

John talks of Meade products. When I first started out, I wanted to obtain the 4000 series set, but none were available to me at the time? Yet now I have managed to start the series 4000 collection, yet there are reports of internal differences  into what is effectively the same eyepiece. I'm now reading that my  4000 [JAPAN] Super Plossls may not be in fact, genuine Plossls due to having, or not, a fifth element, whereby a genuine Plossl has only four elements! And I've read that the  EP stamping alone may indicate the difference? My Meade's are barrel stamped [JAPAN ] supposedly 5 element, being the  Super Plossl,  whereas reports now say the earlier 5 element EPs were the better quality eyepieces with the eyepiece body stamped with [JAPAN] rather than the barrel  Its all very confusing in knowing what you actually have underneath the brand name.

Televue (a USA branded company - made in Japan!) use the words 'proprietary' and 'competitive' meaning their own brand, possibly made somewhere else, no competitive products ( copies/clones ) are made  in the same factory, so you should be  getting the genuine article inside and out  (my TV's are body stamped [JAPAN] so I believe I have the genuine article, does what it says on the tin?

Even my scope under the Sky-Watcher brand is manufactured by Synta, who are owned by...........? 

Like I mentioned above, Its all very confusing in knowing what you actually have underneath with certain brand names.

If you delve a little deeper, so long as it works, is there any real issue. I suppose for some, yes, there maybe. Powerful thing this branding malarkey! Have I got the genuine article, who knows....

[John]

Tele Vue split their manufacture between Taiwan and Japan now. Their larger and more complex eyepieces seem to be Taiwanese in manufacture. All their eyepieces are shipped to the USA and individually tested and quality checked before being re-shipped to their various markets though. You won't find Tele Vue designs under other branding with the exception of the old Tele Vue 8-24mm zoom which was produced by Vixen and can be bought with Vixen branding as well.

I believe the only USA made eyepieces these days are Brandons but even with those the lenses are imported now.

It's a bit off topic I guess but as I started the thread I'll forgive myself !

[Charic]

My Meade 9.7mm Japan  `Super Plossl` has a  4 element design, I do not see any  5th element.

it says 'Super Plossl'  on the body, and my understanding was that their early incarnation of  'Super Plossl' had the extra element between the two achromats, making it  Super in some way, better even than a standard Plossl.

Only TeleVue, I believe,  had patented their Plossl to be better than the rest, but again, my understanding is that their patent has expired?.

Even the embossed yellow typeface is a different shade between the Meade eyepieces, age maybe,  cloned or more handling, I really don't   know ?

Perhaps John, I should still build my TVP set, at least I know what I'm getting.

[Steve Ward]

You should have gone to the IAS and got some "from the horse's mouth" info , the new boss of 'Meade' was on their stand chatting to all for two days ... 

[alan potts]

I think though we have no doubt more to choose from these days than when I started out back in the 70's it is a bit of an exaggerated picture.

Many products are now available that are basically the same thing all from the same factory and we do not have equipment apart from eyes to test for differences if indeed there are any. It seems to me that choice of many eyepiece can be down to outer casing design appealing to one person or another and in the case of many scopes which paint job one likes.

Alan

[Charic]

You should have gone to the IAS and got some "from the horse's mouth" info , the new boss of 'Meade' was on their stand chatting to all for two days ... 

All about timing Sir! If it was this or next weekend, it could have been possible to fly down and have a peek?

[Alan64]

Looks like Meade are using Synta to produce some of their scopes now then. That scope looks a clone of the Skywatcher Evostar 120 in all but the colour scheme. The white is nice but I'm not sure about the blue highlights

In fact the whole LX70 line up look very much like Skywatcher clones !:

http://www.meade.com/products/telescopes/lx70-series.html

Ah!  The blue; just a tad overdone, eh?  But it doesn't have to be...

[N8Allen]

All of this makes brands like AP, TAK, Bisque, etc... All the more "premium"

- N8

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Tele Vue split their manufacture between Taiwan and Japan now. Their larger and more complex eyepieces seem to be Taiwanese in manufacture. All their eyepieces are shipped to the USA and individually tested and quality checked before being re-shipped to their various markets though. You won't find Tele Vue designs under other branding with the exception of the old Tele Vue 8-24mm zoom which was produced by Vixen and can be bought with Vixen branding as well.

I believe the only USA made eyepieces these days are Brandons but even with those the lenses are imported now.

It's a bit off topic I guess but as I started the thread I'll forgive myself !

Doesn't Edmund Optics still make a limited series of EPs (like the RKEs)

[John]

Doesn't Edmund Optics still make a limited series of EPs (like the RKEs)

I think that might be correct on reflection Michael. There are a few other people in the USA such as Paul Rini and Harry Siebert assembling eyepieces as well although their lenses are imported from elsewhere. I think Glen Speers is or was making the Speers-WALER and some Antares eyepieces in Canada as well, again from imported optics.

I'll have to get Bill Paolini's book and get the complete picture !

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

They certainly list them here:

http://www.edmundoptics.eu/microscopy/eyepieces/

but I must say their orthos look a lot like both the Fujiyama HD and Astro-Hiutech orthos

[John]

They seem to stock a mixed bag these days.

[FLO]

 

On 10/10/2015 at 09:36, Charic said:

I'm now reading that my  4000 [JAPAN] Super Plossls may not be in fact, genuine Plossls due to having, or not, a fifth element, whereby a genuine Plossl has only four elements! And I've read that the  EP stamping alone may indicate the difference? My Meade's are barrel stamped [JAPAN ] supposedly 5 element, being the  Super Plossl,  whereas reports now say the earlier 5 element EPs were the better quality eyepieces with the eyepiece body stamped with [JAPAN] rather than the barrel  Its all very confusing in knowing what you actually have underneath the brand name.

I was never confident any of the Meade Series 4000 Super Plossls were truly made in Japan (except for the Meade Series 4000 26mm which, for a period of time, was). Most I think were made by GSO and some by JOC. I am not aware of any with five elements, I might be wrong but I thought they were all 4-element Plossl designs. As for 'Super' Plossl. That was probably marketing, though they were rather well made with internal baffling and blackened lens edges so were better than some with lower specifications. My own experience (I owned several, many years ago) was the 12.4mm and longer focal lengths were good eyepieces. 

When buying Series 4000 Plossls secondhand be aware there were some fake ones being sold new at eBay a few years ago. 

Interestingly the lower priced Series 3000 Plossls were, initially, made in Japan. 

HTH, 

Steve